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    Your Elvenar Team

Method to improve troop selection for auto-fight.

Method to improve troop selection for auto-fight


  • Total voters
    24
  • Poll closed .

Yogi Dave

Well-Known Member
I have talked about this in my FS and I know a couple of people have voted for it from there. I don't think they are very active in the forum, but they are very active in the game and love the idea. Please, let me know if that is the problem. I've not been suggesting people to come here and vote. A few did ask where is was. I would certainly hate for this to be what shuts it down.
 

Alpha Lyrae

Well-Known Member
I really hope people aren't gaming the system. It's so nice that Inno worked with well-known members here on the US forum to come up with a clear path to get good ideas to developers without having to be on Beta. :confused:
 

Alpha Lyrae

Well-Known Member
I have talked about this in my FS and I know a couple of people have voted for it from there. I don't think they are very active in the forum, but they are very active in the game and love the idea. Please, let me know if that is the problem. I've not been suggesting people to come here and vote. A few did ask where is was. I would certainly hate for this to be what shuts it down.

I was wondering the same thing. Does "inactive" mean not active on the forum or not active in-game?
 

Yogi Dave

Well-Known Member
Does "inactive" mean not active on the forum or not active in-game?
I'm wondering the same thing. It's got my heart pounding a bit. I'm pretty much the battle master of my FS, so help a lot of people there and have heard them complain about not being able to see what is happening. All I can do is suggest stuff as blindly as they are. @arayla even took pics of an arena and move after move I told her what I would do. She was amazed that I could tell her exactly what the computer was going to do. She said she learned a lot. It was fun to do once, but a 45 minute battle (there were a couple of breaks) was a long time. lol
 

Yogi Dave

Well-Known Member
I've been looking at who in my FS has accounts and when they last posed. The person who did the map for me last posted Nov. '18. I think she voted shortly after the poll appeared. Another that I know voted today was Dec. '17. The last who voted last posted Oct. of last year. All are daily players and had I said nothing in the FS, they would not have voted. Maybe I should have them come on and remove there votes. Until I hear from Xelenia. I can do nothing. Be still my heart.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
One of the problems is that there are at least a couple of people active here on the forums who do not play Elvenar under the name they post with here. They play the game under another account and name, so when you go and look them up on elvenstats or in-game, it appears they have a city that is permanently tiny or looks abandoned. So those people protecting their game privacy may end up invalidating any polls here they vote on. I would suggest to those players, if they read this, to send a private message to @Xelenia so that she knows they are valid.
 

Yogi Dave

Well-Known Member
Thanks, but un fortunately that's not the case here. I know there were no votes yesterday, it stood at 18. Today there are 20 and I know they both came from my FS, so that must be it. At least it's hard to assume it is something else.
 

Alpha Lyrae

Well-Known Member
I've been looking at who in my FS has accounts and when they last posed. The person who did the map for me last posted Nov. '18. I think she voted shortly after the poll appeared. Another that I know voted today was Dec. '17. The last who voted last posted Oct. of last year. All are daily players and had I said nothing in the FS, they would not have voted. Maybe I should have them come on and remove there votes. Until I hear from Xelenia. I can do nothing. Be still my heart.

We spoke about it in our FS too. At least one player had no idea that all of this was going on in the forums and had mentioned checking it out. If he did, his forum profile would be brand new.
 

Yogi Dave

Well-Known Member
LOL What a cruel backfire that would be. People get interested because it seems like it would do good only for it to be the death knell.

PS Sorry about my typos. I usually edit and reedit before posting here.
 

Xelenia

Ex-Team Member
Do not worry @Yogi Dave , I was not referring to the two added votes today. I do advice that if anyone is voting under any account that is not active in-game in fear of privacy, to reach out to me though :) Though I will recommend if we want to see this forum section survive, to vote under your true identity :) I have to have ammos when I am presenting these ideas you know :p I can't just go john and jane wants this ;)

The reason I am being quite serious about this is that I truly want to see this section thrive, I am aware I am giving my self more work on the forum, but I am ok with this. The last time I held any form of vote in this space of the forum...there were obvious cheating and vote pushing obvious from miles away. This is not one of those. Hopefully, I won't see one like it either.

If anyone got any concern, I encourage you to reach out and not panic this thread any further :)


Xeliana
 

Crow Last Elf

Well-Known Member
I didn't see that this had advanced to a poll. I think the suggested information would be used by many. And the mobile experience would be improved by allowing players to strategize a little better during auto-fighting.
 

ajqtrz

Chef
@Ashrem I agree that many people would probably not use the preview map and just continue guessing which troops to use. Over time they would get better intuitively and thus, the map would make little difference in how they play. On the other hand, I know of one map layout that definitely effects the outcome of manual fighting. It's a long hedge which allows exit to the main battleground only at the bottom of the screen. Any troops behind it must cross the north and south axis of the battlefield before they can reach the enemies. This clogs things up greatly and makes any melee trapped behind either the hedge or other troops useless -- and sitting ducks to ranged or mages. Knowing this means you should either put your fastest troops in the lower spots or use ranged units, light, heavy, or mages. In my experience with this terrain layout the AI usually attacks through the gap and clogs it up. Knowing the terrain, at least in this case, does make a difference in troop choice and battle.

As for the amount of coding needed my coding experience tells me that when you call a window you compose it at the same time. So all you would need to do is to first create the miniature maps, then check the type of terrain the system will be using, and finally, before displaying the troop selection insert it into the troop selection window (which may need a bit of adjusting to make room, but that's pretty minor). My estimation is that it could be done with about 20 lines of code or less, and I expect a lot less if it's done right.

AJ
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
You're answering something nebulous-and-unquoted from a month ago, before the idea got tweaked and I said I might even support it (and did when the vote was conducted, which has been over for a couple of days and the idea is already forwarded), by listing a single example of where it might prove useful, while ignoring that my primary objection is that it might be deemed "sufficient" to cause them to never deliver a feature that many people want (Manual combat option on mobile).

Followed up by:
  • throwing out low-ball code predictions out which ignore
    that besides delivering details about the new map (because clients aren't allowed to know details until they are presented, let alone create them locally), mobile device and browser clients will need code to deal with the map
  • that art will be needed and an unknown but large number of devices will need to fetch the art either
    1) a minimum of once per tournament (while having even more code to adapt the display to the ensuing battles) or
    2) receive a new graphic asset for every single combat.
  • failing to factor that either:
    1) it needs yet more code to be able to disable it (in which case a large number of people will disable it) or
    2) it will generate complaints because people who don't want it can't disable it.
Currently all that needs to be sent is the list of enemies, then a return of the selected enemies, then the result. Now data has to flow for details of the combat even though we don't get to actually fight the combat, instead of just implementing manual fighting.

Was your sole intention to cause yet another in a long line of arguments (about something that is already finished), or did you actually feel like there was a point to dredging up a completed suggestion where nothing we discuss can have any affect on the result?
 

ajqtrz

Chef
You're answering something nebulous-and-unquoted from a month ago, before the idea got tweaked and I said I might even support it (and did when the vote was conducted, which has been over for a couple of days and the idea is already forwarded), by listing a single example of where it might prove useful, while ignoring that my primary objection is that it might be deemed "sufficient" to cause them to never deliver a feature that many people want (Manual combat option on mobile).

Followed up by:
  • throwing out low-ball code predictions out which ignore
    that besides delivering details about the new map (because clients aren't allowed to know details until they are presented, let alone create them locally), mobile device and browser clients will need code to deal with the map
  • that art will be needed and an unknown but large number of devices will need to fetch the art either
    1) a minimum of once per tournament (while having even more code to adapt the display to the ensuing battles) or
    2) receive a new graphic asset for every single combat.
  • failing to factor that either:
    1) it needs yet more code to be able to disable it (in which case a large number of people will disable it) or
    2) it will generate complaints because people who don't want it can't disable it.
Currently all that needs to be sent is the list of enemies, then a return of the selected enemies, then the result. Now data has to flow for details of the combat even though we don't get to actually fight the combat, instead of just implementing manual fighting.

Was your sole intention to cause yet another in a long line of arguments (about something that is already finished), or did you actually feel like there was a point to dredging up a completed suggestion where nothing we discuss can have any affect on the result?

Code predictions are based on 30 years of coding. If I have managed to achieve anything in my 30 years as a program designer, it's a solid ability to envision what it would take. As for "ignoring" that browsers clients and mobile devices will have to "deal with the map" shows a bit of a confusion over what a map would be in the code. Since it's not an active component, it can be treated just like the icons for the type of troops against whom you will be fighting. The window is populated with those icons, the active components are added, then the window is displayed and activated. The coding would simply add one more displayed item -- a small picture of the terrain-map. It need not be a large thing, maybe the size of one of the enemies. The only real overhead would be making the map icons, and adding code to pick the correct one to populate the screen. Since the various maps already exist in active form, you can produce them pretty easily as representative icons. The code to call and populate the fighting screen is, perhaps a couple to 10 lines. As for the mobile device the same procedure, though, of course, the screen may be too small to actually see anything....not a problem with coding but with screen size.

The fetching of the art is the least of the overhead since it's likely buried in a sub-routine to populate the fight screen. Adding a few lines to check what terrain map is going to be used and then picking that map to display in the window, is trivial.

As for people complaining that they have more information at their fingertips, I'm not sure why anybody would care. If it doesn't slow down things (and it wouldn't to any appreciable or probably detectable degree), they might complain, but why? Thus, no need to "turn off or turn on" though that would be a nice thing to have. Personally I wish I could disable a lot of things in the game, but I never complain because I recognize that others may like those things. The game is not my personal toy and if I really don't like some little thing like "my fight window has a map where it didn't before" I don't have to play. I do think your estimate of the complaints to be higher than what would likely occur.

As for you final point about "dredging up a completed suggestion" being my intention, I do wonder why and who makes the final determination that the subject is "closed" or, in your words, "finished?" Remember, if you think the subject is closed, why respond to my out of date comments at all? It's sort of like a football game having completed, you get bent out of shape because somebody is trying to run another play. Who cares?! It isn't going to change the outcome. The subject is closed, finished, kaput, and done and nobody in the stands is going to sit around watching a bunch of foolish people run more plays. But since you did include some response to my points it is pretty obvious that you felt you had not had your last word on the subject and that my comments needed a (new?) reply.

Finally, I might suggest if you've already said everything that can be said about a subject you should let the other guy ramble on foolishly. Since the subject has been finished and everyone interested in the subject has already heard all the arguments anything the poor guy says will appear as a lot of hot air. Those who know the subject can see for themselves that that is the case. No need for a assist in the matter, right?

AJ
 
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