samidodamage
Buddy Fan Club member
Excellent use of space there @Mrrt! I'm curious if @iamthouth (who is the best I've seen at this!) can do anything to improve that, lol!
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Your Elvenar Team
MH location
- Thread starter Matrickz
- Start date
BrinDarby
Well-Known Member
I'd like to see my Khel city optimized, I'm pretty sure impossible.
LordVorKon
Active Member
Doesn't really leave much room for the Breeding Facilities to stretch (4x6 at L2, 5x6 at L3, and then 6x6 at L4).
Also, you've got one set and at least one ancient wonder completely disconnected from the roads, and manufactories change shape too much to want to have them buried in the middle of the map.
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iamthouth
Tetris Master
My apologies for those oversights. Fixed, now saving 47 roads without redoing it completely. You are correct I didn't allow for the growth in the Breeding Facilities, but the extra roads saved gives you more room, and locating the culture buildings around them lets you easily move them to suit changes.
I redo my layout each chapter, so would expect to change once manufactories grow in the future.
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iamthouth
Tetris Master
Hi Brin, 20 roads saved.
BrinDarby
Well-Known Member
@iamthouth ,
Very nice try ... but ....
1st off, in a couple hrs a evolve can't be swapped with (4) workshops, big problem.
2nd , Both MainDocks are Not connected for max bonus, huge problem.
3rd , Training grounds hidden behind MH, ( swapp'd with BB is the fix )
4th , Not all clickable bldgs onscreen @ same time, too much panning around.
Last, yes 20 roads, but they couldn't have been footpaths, how much culture
did you lose, and what did you add to compensate ????
I guess there's flexibility that I loose, usually I can teleport 3 Evolves, shave off
armories, and have room to squeeze in 10 workshops & 21 T1 for a FA.
You did give me an Idea or two, so for that I'm greatfull.... I was actually hope'n
you fix'd my AT prob, but alas, you didn't.
Very nice try ... but ....
1st off, in a couple hrs a evolve can't be swapped with (4) workshops, big problem.
2nd , Both MainDocks are Not connected for max bonus, huge problem.
3rd , Training grounds hidden behind MH, ( swapp'd with BB is the fix )
4th , Not all clickable bldgs onscreen @ same time, too much panning around.
Last, yes 20 roads, but they couldn't have been footpaths, how much culture
did you lose, and what did you add to compensate ????
I guess there's flexibility that I loose, usually I can teleport 3 Evolves, shave off
armories, and have room to squeeze in 10 workshops & 21 T1 for a FA.
You did give me an Idea or two, so for that I'm greatfull.... I was actually hope'n
you fix'd my AT prob, but alas, you didn't.
iamthouth
Tetris Master
@BrinDarby
Teleport of buildings was not mentioned as a criteria, neither was clickable buildings without panning, nor buildings being behind others. Roads provide less culture value than the smallest 1*1 culture building, which you can replace with if you need culture.
I don't understand the reference to AT problem, not sure what AT is short for in this context. Nor was that mention in your initial post.
Teleport of buildings was not mentioned as a criteria, neither was clickable buildings without panning, nor buildings being behind others. Roads provide less culture value than the smallest 1*1 culture building, which you can replace with if you need culture.
I don't understand the reference to AT problem, not sure what AT is short for in this context. Nor was that mention in your initial post.
Gustoff
Member
Ok, returning to a discussion of a few weeks ago ... but trying to apply it to a player that is in chapter 1 and 2 trying to determine 'when' and 'where' to move the MH so they don't have to ever move it again.
By the end of Chapter 1 the Advanced Scouting research to begin Chapter 2 requires that you have explored 10 Provinces. This barely gives you enough room for one major Culture building (flying boat) and no spare room to build the Whispering Trees which are quite a bit of research into Chapter 2 anyway. I have found it to be too early to move the MH.
By the middle of Chapter 2, researched expansions and encounter resolved provinces get to you about 15 expansions and it seems that is the minimum amount of space needed to have room to move the MH and shuffle all your other buildings around. Not expanding the workshops to 3x2 helps as well.
All the illustrations in this and referenced threads show solutions that put AW behind the MH in the corner. In Chapter 2 you have not yet earned a single AW. In addition, the grid in the images provided does not clearly show the width of the buildings between the MH and the edge of the map.
SO... my first question is:
Is the MH placed such that the NW corner is completely in the expansion two over and two down (knowing that buildings will eventually be 5x5 and need a road in the 6th square)? Or is it overlapping the three 'corner' expansion areas by one row leaving only 4 squares to the edge of the map?
At Chapter 2 I see two Whispering Trees (possibly 3), a flying boat, the builder's hut and various other culture buildings being the only things that do not need a road. The Barracks, Trader and MA all need roads and are the largest buildings.
Placing MH in corner - 15 expansions
Placing MA in corner with MH in row 2 col 2
The second example had ventured away from a rectangular town design but perhaps you could imagine the outer expansions being where one is missing currently. I would tighten things up once a new expansion is placed (and T2 Manufacturing/Armories will be in the outer areas)
Comments? I am trying to follow the spiral design idea as well. The type of manufacturing building/geometry also affects the choices made. I still need a marble town to experiment with as well.
By the end of Chapter 1 the Advanced Scouting research to begin Chapter 2 requires that you have explored 10 Provinces. This barely gives you enough room for one major Culture building (flying boat) and no spare room to build the Whispering Trees which are quite a bit of research into Chapter 2 anyway. I have found it to be too early to move the MH.
By the middle of Chapter 2, researched expansions and encounter resolved provinces get to you about 15 expansions and it seems that is the minimum amount of space needed to have room to move the MH and shuffle all your other buildings around. Not expanding the workshops to 3x2 helps as well.
All the illustrations in this and referenced threads show solutions that put AW behind the MH in the corner. In Chapter 2 you have not yet earned a single AW. In addition, the grid in the images provided does not clearly show the width of the buildings between the MH and the edge of the map.
SO... my first question is:
Is the MH placed such that the NW corner is completely in the expansion two over and two down (knowing that buildings will eventually be 5x5 and need a road in the 6th square)? Or is it overlapping the three 'corner' expansion areas by one row leaving only 4 squares to the edge of the map?
At Chapter 2 I see two Whispering Trees (possibly 3), a flying boat, the builder's hut and various other culture buildings being the only things that do not need a road. The Barracks, Trader and MA all need roads and are the largest buildings.
Placing MH in corner - 15 expansions
Placing MA in corner with MH in row 2 col 2
The second example had ventured away from a rectangular town design but perhaps you could imagine the outer expansions being where one is missing currently. I would tighten things up once a new expansion is placed (and T2 Manufacturing/Armories will be in the outer areas)
Comments? I am trying to follow the spiral design idea as well. The type of manufacturing building/geometry also affects the choices made. I still need a marble town to experiment with as well.
Sprite1313
Well-Known Member
Well, if you never want to have to move it again, then you had better leave a lot of space around it to allow it to grow. Final size (thru chapter 19) is 8x8. That is a big chunk of real estate for chapter 2.
samidodamage
Buddy Fan Club member
Not a lot of time right now, @Gustoff, but in early chapters of my 2nd city (that I already knew I wanted to use the AW's around the MH eventually) I brought the MH in from the corner and used the Magic Academy(never changes size) in the top corner. Also, Trader is good for those spots in early game as well; it won't change sizes until Ch11 Halflings. Then I placed the Barracks there as well, allowing just a bit more room for it to upgrade. It goes to 6x5 or 5x6 (depending on elf or human) by Ch3 and stays that size until Ch6. The training grounds are 3x3 in Ch3, grow to 3x4 in Ch5 and stay that size until Ch8, so it went near the MH as well. As I started getting AW's, I began placing them near/around the MH where I could. As I reached the guest races, then I started pausing at the end of chapters to use the empty guest race space to reorganize my 'MH corner' moving AW's behind the MH, and moving the military bldgs towards their own 'corner' to maximize space to road square ratio while putting them in a better position to grow. By Ch 7 I had space ready for the Merc Camp to join that corner (I'm an elf only, humans may not 'need' the Merc Camp as soon as they can build it).
sambria
Chef
I have had mine in the middle of my cities, but then was told by a FS member, that it would be better if i place my MH in the top left hand corner of my city. The benefits are as @BrinDarby has said previously. So now all my cities, have their MH in the top left hand corner. I also find that it is useful there because it makes space for other buildings to go places.
Matrickz
Active Member
Where did u hear about expansions and how would we gain them since I am now only allowed premiums
Enevhar Aldarion
Oh Wise One
Chapter 19 used the last ones already part of the grid, so when they add chapter 20, they will turn the open space along the lower right and left into more expansions. Same as they did a couple of years ago when they expanded the grid from 12x12 to 13x13. Next one will make the city 14x14.
Matrickz
Active Member
But will they return gaining them by increasing the limit or just more you can only buy or gain 2 per chapter
Enevhar Aldarion
Oh Wise One
Nope, probably the same as the last few chapters, with 2 research, 1 province, and 2 premium.
Matrickz
Active Member
Well I am maxed so research and premium is it