Mountain Halls and Time warp mechanics

[Ariel Greensleeves]

I need a math whiz with great understanding of this game to give me advice. I'm in Ch 15 and have recently figured out I need far more sentient goods than I was set up for. I am increasing from {2 T4, 1 T5, 1 T6} to 2 of each. My Timewarp is at level 7. I don't have simia sapiens. Does Mountain Halls affect the boosted T4-6 factories? I am showing a small boost in production on every factory but I can't tell if its from timewarp or MH. My MH is level 27.
Which is better to improve sentient goods prodxn: upgrading MH or Timewarp? Or should I try to squeeze in a Simia sapiens?

 

[defiantoneks]

there are several ways to improve your sentient production. I utilize the Timewarp, Simia Sapiens, Vortex of Storage, Pyramid of Purification.
Also, having an Elvenar Trade Center running will extend and amplify your MMM enchantments. I never run sentient or ascended production without those factories being enchanted.

edit: I dont believe the MH applies to Sentient, but I could be completely wrong.
edit 2: i have only one each sentient and ascended goods factories. I find I do ok. yes I occasionally have to wait on production, but not to an excessive level, and i need the space for seeds, mana, unurium etc that cant really be boosted or found otherwise.

 

[Henroo]

@Ariel Greensleeves Mountain Halls only impacts standard goods. It has no impact at all on sentient goods. So you need to level Time Warp to help with sentient. Simia Sapiens is very much worth having. In addition to lowering sentient good decay, it will also give a production bonus to your barracks, training grounds, and mercenary camp.

Another good way to increase sentient good production is by casting Magical Manufacturing spells on your sentient good manufactories. Elvenar Trade Center helps with this since in increases the power and duration of MM spells.

 

[ajqtrz]

Sima Sapian reduces the decay of sentient goods. MH increases your standard goods only. And the time warp increases your sentient goods production. From this we eliminate the MH because it doesn't effect sentient goods production and you are concerned with sentient goods. Looking at the Sima Sapian we find it lowers sentient decay by .2% per level while the timewarp increases production by 4% per level. If you are producing 20k of sentient goods a day and increase that amount 4%, you get....800 more sentient goods. And if you have 100,000 sentient goods and they decay by 5% you lose 5,000. Reduce that by .2% (by raising the Simia Sapiens one level) and you save an additional....10 from decaying. So for each level you raise the Timewarp you add 800 and each time you raise the Simia Sapien you save 10 more so from decaying....provided you produce 20k sentient goods per day and have 100k of sentient goods in stock. All of which shows that it....like so many things in this game....depends. If you are at the levels described -- 20k/day and 100k in storage, the timewarp is where you should focus your attention. But if you have 500,000 of sentient goods in storage you save 1000 per day from decay (500,000 * .2%) which is higher than the 800 per day you increase your sentient goods production by if you raise the timewarp. So, here's how you calculate which AW to increase/add. Start with S (the amount of stored sentient goods you usually have on hand) * D *1.002 (the current level of decay times what it would be if you raised it one level). Then take P (the daily sentient good production * B*1.04 (the Bonus from the timewarp if you increased it's level by one). Whichever number is larger tells you what you will gain by increasing/adding that AW.

Note: if you put the Simia Sapien in it may be that you get a large decay reduction from level 1 (I believe it's 1.2% at level one and then lowers the decay level by two-tenths of a percent each level after that), so the initial build is 6 times more than each level after that. More complexity to compute. You have to consider the space and if, after level 1, the .2% increased reduction in decay is worth the space when you could just raise your timewarp one more level and, maybe, do better?

AJ

 

[defiantoneks]

^ as to the above, the Simia has a bonus of increasing troop production. so if you fight, it will help with that.

 

[Glandeh]

Not sure if your calculations are right. Timewarp will, just like the Mountain Halls increase sentient production based on base production level. So, assuming that you have full bonus from relics, those 20K production comes from about 2K5 base production. 4% of that would be about 100. So each level would gain you about 100 sentient goods each day.
About the decay: normal decay is 10% witch is reduced by 0.2% per level of your Simia. Take the 100K as an example, then without a Simia, you would lose 10K at decay time. A 0.2% reduction would mean that you would lose 9800 instead, so that's 200 saved.
OP is right in his note, the first level give 6 times the benefit per level.

 

[ajqtrz]

Not sure if your calculations are right. Timewarp will, just like the Mountain Halls increase sentient production based on base production level. So, assuming that you have full bonus from relics, those 20K production comes from about 2K5 base production. 4% of that would be about 100. So each level would gain you about 100 sentient goods each day.
About the decay: normal decay is 10% witch is reduced by 0.2% per level of your Simia. Take the 100K as an example, then without a Simia, you would lose 10K at decay time. A 0.2% reduction would mean that you would lose 9800 instead, so that's 200 saved.
OP is right in his note, the first level give 6 times the benefit per level.

You could be right. But the formula should work even if my calculations using the formula are wrong....Sigh. LOL

AJ

 

[Ariel Greensleeves]

Thanks! 100K in storage regularly? I wish! Not in this chapter. I got two different answers on whether MH boosts sentient goods. Maybe I will have to do the math myself. I'll repost here when I figure it out. I'm going to focus on Timewarp and see if I can squeeze in 1st level simia. Maybe I will be able to remove a bunch of my supply-free troop producing buildings.

Mountain halls affects only boosted regular goods T1-3 factories.
Timewarp affects only boosted sentient goods T4-6.
That is the base production that is boosted, not the relic boosted amount, which is an additional 700%.

 

[Lady Dastardly]

Hi Ariel! Those saying Mt Halls does not boost sentients are correct. The boost you are seeing is definitely coming from your Timewarp. You can check this yourself by disconnecting your Timewarp from the road and then checking the boost of a factory producing sentient goods. You should see that there is no active AW boost, even though your Mt Halls is still connected and providing boosts to your factories producing standard goods. Reconnect your Timewarp and the sentient boost should come back.

 

[Ariel Greensleeves]

I re-did the math from ajqtrz. I appreciate how you laid out the logic- that helped a lot.
I'll use actual numbers from my city. One T4 factory at level 27, production 3 hr, Timewarp at level 9
regular prodxn: 440
relic boost (700%): 3080
timewarp 9 boost (60%): 264 Repeat 5 times/day so 1320 gained Timewarp 10 boost (64%) +1408, or 88 more
enchantment boost (82.5%): 3122
total for 5 iterations: 34,530
nightly decay (-10%) - 3,453 Simia sapiens level 1 nightly decay (-8.8%) - 3039, or 414 retained SS level 2 -2970, or 69 more retained

Take home lesson: 60% boost in sentient good production sounds fantastic, but its actually pretty small benefit. I would need a timewarp with a boost of 150% just to negate the nightly decay. Can you even get to level 33 wonders? I like the benefit of reducing tournament time, but once you can do tournament 2x/day, additional reduction is not desirable to me. Increased # troop production from SS is nice.

The most effective way to boost sentient good production is clearly: more factories and use of magical manufacturing.

 

[crackie]

The most effective way to boost sentient good production is clearly: more factories and use of magical manufacturing.

Or a ton of armories and a really high Pyramid. Then you get sentients and lots of troops made too at the same time. You might have to trade more as which sentient you get is random, but it will get the job done too for filling your sentient coffers.

And yeah, I skipped Mountain Hall in my second city. Don’t miss it.

 

[Henroo]

@Ariel Greensleeves You did not account for rune phase upgrades in your numbers. They make a difference since they are equal to 2 normal upgrades. And there is a somewhat simpler way to calculate the effectiveness of AWs when leveled. As far as I can tell, every AW in the game increases by a full order of magnitude every 5 levels. IE, a level 6 AW is going to be twice as powerful as it was at L1. At L11 it will be 3 times as strong as at L1. 4x at L16. So on and so forth...

 

[Yogi Dave]

As far as I can tell, every AW in the game increases by a full order of magnitude every 5 levels.

This was true through the Constructs AWs. Each KP upgrade gives 1/6th the initial benefit and each run upgrade gives 1/3rd more. There is a minor except for the Victory Springs' training speed boost. Initially it is 15% and grows by 15% per rune upgrade except from level 21 to 26 the increase is only 12%. Also, above level 30 often 1 of the abilities freezes. After the construct's AWs, the rules are different and inconsistent as far as I can tell.

As for the OP's question. get that SimSap and leveled a few times. The more levels the better. Timewarp is great, but more for its reduction in cooldown time. Its boost in sentient production is a bonus, but not the main reason for having it. Both of SimSap's benefits are great. Also, as mentioned,

 

[Pheryll]

This was true through the Constructs AWs. Each KP upgrade gives 1/6th the initial benefit and each run upgrade gives 1/3rd more. There is a minor except for the Victory Springs' training speed boost. Initially it is 15% and grows by 15% per rune upgrade except from level 21 to 26 the increase is only 12%. Also, above level 30 often 1 of the abilities freezes. After the construct's AWs, the rules are different and inconsistent as far as I can tell.

As for the OP's question. get that SimSap and leveled a few times. The more levels the better. Timewarp is great, but more for its reduction in cooldown time. Its boost in sentient production is a bonus, but not the main reason for having it. Both of SimSap's benefits are great. Also, as mentioned,

I am pretty sure that @Deborah M confirmed that the wiki levels for the high levels of Victory Spring are wrong, and that it, like the other wonders, continues at the pace expected- that is an equally leveled victory springs, flying academy, and needles of the tempest should all give the same training speed bonus to their respective buildings.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I am pretty sure that @Deborah M confirmed that the wiki levels for the high levels of Victory Spring are wrong, and that it, like the other wonders, continues at the pace expected- that is an equally leveled victory springs, flying academy, and needles of the tempest should all give the same training speed bonus to their respective buildings.

Yes, they do, but your troop production speed will not be equal between all three buildings until after finishing the research in chapter 16, I think, and maxing the Barracks, Grounds and Camp levels.

 

[Pheryll]

Yes, they do, but your troop production speed will not be equal between all three buildings until after finishing the research in chapter 16, I think, and maxing the Barracks, Grounds and Camp levels.

Up to chapter 16 it is true that these buildings play leap frog (the base increase overtaking the other for a chapter), but what Yogi Dave was referring to was the post level 21 progression of the Victory Springs. In the wiki it has wrong information, according to some who have leveled their Victory Springs that far.