My informal Player Survey - with interesting results

[DeletedUser627]

I conducted a simple survey of the top 120 ranked players on Arendyll. First, please accept any necessary apologies to those not included in the sample set. I was lazy, and didn't want to take the time to send out more than 120 individual messages...tabulate responses, etc. It's important to point out that I don't consider other players' opinions less valuable...but sticking with a related set of respondents is important for statistical accuracy.

Even so, 120 is a nice sample size. And these 120 are, statistically speaking, clearly inclined to active play with significant time and $ investment. Again, I personally know that many of you play and/or spend actively...but I needed a related sampling, not just picking and choosing players I personally know.

I asked one question without preface or comment:

Knowing what you now know about Elvenar, would you have started playing in the first place?​

I request a "Yes, No, Undecided" response (please note the placement of "yes" as the first option to avoid negative bias in the methodology) I also said that comments would be taken into consideration. Results:

Number of Respondents 55% (66 of the 120 surveyed)

Percentage of Respondents NO 33.3%
Percentage of Respondents YES 58%
Percentage of Respondents Undecided 9%
​

16.5% Percentage of the YES respondents qualified with "Yes but I wouldn't have spent any $" ​

When the responses of the top 30 players are calculated:

Number of Respondents 66.6% (20 of the top 30 surveyed)

Percentage of Respondents NO 65%
Percentage of Respondents YES 25%
Percentage of Respondents Undecided 10%
​

Lastly, I assigned a 1-5 value to each response. 1 is for a categorical NO. 2 for an Undecided probably not. 3 for Undecided. 4 for Undecided probably, or YES but no $. 5 for categorical YES.

The average response is 3.3 on a scale of 5. 6.6 on a scale of 10....a D grade.


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Ancillary:

The average rating of 3.3 is quite low - especially considering that 58% of the players would play again. This is because so many of the "YES" answers were qualified with comments. "Yes, but..." A "but" response lowered their rating from a 5 to a 4. The "but..." comments were either regarding spending, or they would have waited until game was stable before beginning. Both are significant changes in behavior - basically, in either case, the player would prefer to be much lower ranked than spend $ or go through the turmoil of this first year. (Note: players who responded with "yes, even though.." comments were assigned a 5).

​

 

[Deleted User - 107391]

Wow, what a lot of work you've done! Thank you; this is interesting.

 

[DeletedUser1161]

Interesting stuff. In the marketing analysis I've done (mostly on cosmetics and meds) you do usually want to see an overall score of above 4 on a 5-point Likert scale. 3.3 is pretty lukewarm. Of course, it's a little hard to interpret when you presented a 3-point scale and converted the responses to a 5-point scale yourself.

I notice the response rate is fairly low. I wonder how many non-respondents have quit? The thing that's interesting in your survey (if it's statistically significant) is that the top 30 have more "no" answers. Why do you think that is? Were these the players most focused on the quest system, or is the game inherently more boring once you finish out the tech tree?

 

[DeletedUser627]

thanks for the feedback Aydenn.

The conversion to the 5 point scale was prompted by the respondents themselves. The "yes, but" responders were self-indicating that they couldn't / wouldn/t make an unequivocal "yes". Since these qualified statements were along the lines of "yes, but I wouldn't spend any money" (only 2 were "yes, but I wouldn't have started yet, would have waited until all changes completed" - the qualification seemed statistically of high importance. Why?

Inno can't maintain Elvenar without profitability, so "yes, but I wouldn't spend any money" is a huge detractor. Comparing that to your cosmetics analysis - the manufacturers wouldn't fare well if respondents were asked "would you use this product again" and the customer said, "oh yes, but only if it were free". For me to downgrade the response from a 5 to a 4 is statistically generous, because from Inno's point of view this response may as well be a "no".

Even if we stick to the three point scale, Inno is only scoring 58% ; 67% if you include all the undecideds.

About the response rate - I don't know how to gauge whether it's high or low. Personally, I was surprised that over half the folks responded. One, it's just a meaningless survey from a fellow player - unofficial and not from Inno. Two, given the minimal participation in this forum, I didn't expect much of a return at all.

And if half or a quarter of the top ranks have quit after all the time and $...that would indicate more than the survey itself! Lol

As for the top 30 players...the "no" responders were either inclined to give long explanations covering a variety of reasons, or they were "NO", or "NO NO NO". I didn't see kinder and gentler "no's" (laughing here). The top 30 players tend to be innovative/ creative in their approach; less likely to follow rules; inclined to spend more-than-average amounts of time and money. In other online games, these are the players who establish virtual empires, groundbreak, accomplish game highs that inspire other players, etc. Rather than being encouraged to lead, they're being cut off from play time. Elsewhere I've made reference to my "expensive screen saver called Elvenar"...I didn't make that up - it was one of the NO responders. "Bored" isn't exactly the right phrase - because these players were willing to do very "boring" repetitive tasks to get to their current rank. It's the changed nature of the game I heard most about- including Yes to Undecided to No respondents: there's no game to play. This is root of the "..but I wouldn't spend any money" and "...it's not worth the money" and "...I regret all the money"... It's "why did we spend all this money for a game we're not allowed to play?"

Lastly, about the tech tree: it's probably less "boring" after the tech tree, because at least there are options for what to do with your KP. While still in the tree, it's - log on, apply kp to the tree, once every few days a military unit will be upgraded or you can start upgrading a building, or you get to calculate the weeks until you'll have enough copper...

Honestly - after reading every single Forum post here and in Beta over the past months, and chatting personally with dozens of players - most of the Elvenar complaints would be alleviated if Inno would just introduce some tasks into the game. They could be utterly meaningless - tasks that take forever and result in an adornment placed atop the Main Hall, for example. Tasks that allow players to actively play whenever they choose to get online - not quests that require players to wait with nothing to do. This is what the declinable quests were about: ways for players to fixate on a game, develop "relationships" with other players, see small but measurable results from their "work", and feel some measure of ownership.

The current scenario feels more like Inno owns the game and allows you to interact with it for a few minutes every three hours. This wasn't how the game was presented to non-Beta players....players liked the game, were drawn into it for fun, and then wham! Inno doesn't want us clogging up their servers by playing, so we're shut down.

Conclusion to this long irrelevant post, it's clear that I'm in the "no" category, and I did count my own vote. Several of my favorite players, though, are "yes" guys. Coincidentally, they're more game savvy - more experienced - and have spent little or at least less on the game. (most likely because they're experienced and knew better). They're less frustrated, more sanguine that "things will even out". I humorously wish they'd been a bit more vocal to advise others to spend less. A lot less. I'm certainly advising any new player I find to evaluate their spending: "Ask yourself: how much is it worth to you to be entertained for 10 minutes every three hours? Is it better than what you can do for free during those ten minutes?"

 

[DeletedUser1161]

Your method for reassignment makes a lot of sense. It's the "would you buy this product?" question where you want to see at least 4/5 on a Likert scale so I agree Inno is in trouble with Elvenar.

I got interested in Elvenar because it actually had a combat system. However, I have been disincentivized from playing too. I was enjoying conquering provinces and growing my city because I could fight when I wanted to spend time in the game. Now every single province I conquer is a lost opportunity to get a shard. I don't get AW for another ~45 days so there isn't much to do until then except accumulate soldiers and goods for a blast of trading and fighting when I get to Act V. The amount of money I can afford to spend would hardly make a dent in the number of KP I need so I am not spending at all.

 

[DeletedUser61]

"Ask yourself: how much is it worth to you to be entertained for 10 minutes every three hours? Is it better than what you can do for free during those ten minutes?"

There's a really obvious answer. LOTS of folks enjoy gardening.

• You till the soil
• You plant the seeds
• You water the plants and pull the weeds, once in a while
• You DON'T constantly pull up the radishes to see how they are doing.

Elvenar is a Flowerbed, not a Racetrack.

 

[DeletedUser43]

I agree with Kat. This game is better if you don't spend any money on it. Treat it like gardening. Stop by, spend a few minutes and then in the harvest stage (aka when new stuff is introduced to the game), then you will get busy. But yes, absolutely, you will be very unhappy if you paid and expected a game to play.

Aydenn,

I agree with you as well. These ancient wonders have the given players the disincentive to play. If you conquer any provinces then yes, you have wasted them. Trust me, as you go further in this game, scouting provinces takes 2 days per scout so it will take you years to get the shards you need (at least it will take me about that long).

I have some more bad news for you. You can't collect any mountain halls shards until you finish the entire tech tree and have researched dwarven wonders. And the only wonder that is worth its space and cost of boosted relics is the mountain hall. If you build any other wonder, it costs you more than it is worth to you. So, either you can get through the whole tech tree and be in the boat of us long time players and have no provinces left to scout, or you can hardly get through the tech tree without more expansions and you won't ever get to the dwarven wonders.

It makes us all wonder who has designed these new game "features"? I guess, they are designed for people who haven't learned yet what is best for you if you want to progress in this game? I mean, if you want to just have a little tiny screen saver city? But then, who would spend money on that? I don't know. I am baffled. It seems the game designers have no idea how to design this game.

I mean, why on earth would you create a thing that stops people from playing your game and spending money? And why would you be so awful with customer service? Don't you want players? And why on earth would you have a beta version only to find bugs and then import them over to your live servers anyway? And why wouldn't you ever compensate your beta testers with something? Anything? And why would you have contests as a way to thank players on some servers but not on others, leaving the empty handed players angry? And why would you continually destroy the only features in the game that players are enjoying? And why would you want your forums dead all the time because most people don't know how to sign in to the forums and you can't be bothered to tell them? And why wouldn't you have a simple quest in the beginning that teaches people about neighborly help? And why wouldn't you replace the empty cities with actual live players?


So...ya know...I can't figure this place out. I can tell you, that spending money on this game...well...spend at your own risk. If you think you can't play without spending, then come see my city. I can't get to the top without spending, but I am hanging in there. Though I greatly suspect Inno will do everything they can to make sure my kind of non spending game is more and more impossible.

Edit: Don't forget all the rule changes. One day they just decided that you shouldn't get as large a culture bonus. Other days they change the rules on the quests. Others they change the quests and totally mess your whole game up. Go back and look at every "balancing" change in the updates. You can see for yourself that this game is constantly changing and becoming even more expensive than you thought. The balances are never in your favor. Only theirs. So, players stop trusting them. Who would buy something today that becomes a hindrance tomorrow? Why spend money when you don't know the rules of the game? I mean, I guess if you just want instant gratification, but as Kat says, this is a long term game and you should really treat it as such and since you don't know what is important tomorrow, how can you ever build for it?

 

[DeletedUser61]

I guess, they are designed for people who haven't learned yet what is best for you if you want to progress in this game?

My response merely illustrates our differing points of view, and I'll continue to use my flowerbed analogy.

• An attractive flower bed is harmonious and well balanced, and is arranged so that everything complements the other.
• There's no good way to "score" how much satisfaction one gets from puttering around in a garden.
• Planting WAY TOO MUCH stuff, and ending up with a hodge podge, isn't anything to be admired. Biomass isn't a good measure.
• If you're too busy at the moment, a bit of neglect doesn't hurt a thing.
• Getting it EXACTLY right, in accordance with your vision of how you want it to be, is worth real dollars.

Your actual maintenance may indeed only take a few minutes every few hours, but you'll spend far more time than that, relaxing in your lawn chair sipping tea, while you're deciding if you REALLY want more pansies in that corner, or not, and what are we going to do about those ugly Geraniums?

This is not a new concept. Here's a quote from 6 months ago, which you liked at the time and perhaps still do.

What's the point of a flower garden?

 

[DeletedUser43]

But I do agree Kat. If you want a garden, then this is a lovely garden. You can sit in your lawn chair sipping tea and just stare at the computer and ponder what to do about those ugly dwarven buildings.

I think however, some people thought this was computer game, not a garden, and that is where the anger and frustration lies. But yes, if they advertised this as a computer garden, that would be much better. I can't imagine you would get many players, as computer gardens don't seem like a very big part of the gaming sector, but hey, I don't know what is popular these days. I think it would also be better if they didn't come by and rain on your garden until it was flooded all the time or leave you in a drought gasping for water, but challenges are all a part of gardening.

It all has to do with your expectations and what you think you are buying. They would be much better off if they didn't advertise this a city builder, but a city watcher from your lawn chair while you sip your tea.

 

[DeletedUser1161]

I have some more bad news for you. You can't collect any mountain halls shards until you finish the entire tech tree and have researched dwarven wonders. And the only wonder that is worth its space and cost of boosted relics is the mountain hall. If you build any other wonder, it costs you more than it is worth to you. So, either you can get through the whole tech tree and be in the boat of us long time players and have no provinces left to scout, or you can hardly get through the tech tree without more expansions and you won't ever get to the dwarven wonders.

Thanks for explaining about the dwarven wonder shards. So let me make sure I have this straight. Even if I wait for Chapter V to fight I only get elven shards, which unlock two wonders that use up relics and city space, crippling my goods production for negligible benefits. smh

So...ya know...I can't figure this place out. I can tell you, that spending money on this game...well...spend at your own risk. If you think you can't play without spending, then come see my city. I can't get to the top without spending, but I am hanging in there. Though I greatly suspect Inno will do everything they can to make sure my kind of non spending game is more and more impossible.

I like my pretty little garden city that I can fiddle with while I read news and sip coffee, but it's not worth much money to me.

The thing I don't get is that Inno is profitable. They have made a ton of money on FoE and continue to do so. That means they must know how to keep gamers reasonably happy long-term or people wouldn't be sticking around. Do we have the B team on Elvenar?

Add me to the "sure I'll play your fishbowl but I won't pay for it" survey group.

 

[DeletedUser43]

Even if I wait for Chapter V to fight I only get elven shards, which unlock two wonders that use up relics and city space, crippling my goods production for negligible benefits. smh

Right!

If you donate your knowledge points to someone who is building a dwarven wonder, which you can do after you have unlocked the first ancient wonders tech in chapter IV, then you can win a rune shard if you donate the most. But you will not get dwarven shards from completing provinces until you finish the tech.

All I can figure is the devs either can't do math or they think we can't do math and they thought that building the human/elven wonders would thrill us. Because what they have done is set up the players with the incentive not to play the game at all, or to play it and to know they are losing an opportunity each time they clear a province because they are missing out on all the shards they know they will so desperately need.

SMH is my standard response to every update. Go back and read all the upgrades under Release Notes. They are on the forum. That will give you a good feel for what happens and what will likely be coming.

 

[DeletedUser61]

It all has to do with your expectations and what you think you are buying. They would be much better off if they didn't advertise this a city builder, but a city watcher from your lawn chair while you sip your tea.

http://www.italiannotebook.com/local-interest/origin-rome-wasnt-built-in-a-day/

 

[DeletedUser43]

SMH is my standard response to every update.

And to most of your posts Kat.