New Player Sandbox

[DeletedUser684]

Instead of putting new players directly onto the main map, leave them in a smaller map (city+6 surrounding provinces) until they clear (3-6) of the surrounding provinces. That will give new players time to determine if they like the mechanics of the game before wasting a spot on the main map. Players advance to the main map when they complete "x" build quest and clear (at least) 3 of the surrounding provinces. At that point, their position on the main map is generated, and their "sandbox" expands to show the new surrounding neighborhood. This will greatly condense the main map and give people neighbors who have more than a glancing interest in the game. It would solve most of the trade problems and the need to capture 5-6 provinces distance before meeting another active player. I like that I can polish all of the inactive people around me without a lot of competition, but I would also like to be able to have all of my culture constantly polished by real neighbors. All in all I think the game would play better with active people in close proximity. 1 in 10 active positions gives a very limited market. I like the idea of fellowships, but I don't think that is the real answer to an otherwise barren map.

 

[DeletedUser626]

i like the idea of a tutorial staging (interest testing) area, before new cities get dropped on the main map.

 

[DeletedUser]

Ooooh, me likey! The hardest bit of this would be coding the algorithm to condense the existing active accounts to form the new, smaller world map.

 

[DeletedUser684]

They are planning a purge anyway, I think.

IF the map is a repeating pattern, you could condense the map by moving people from the edge into a MATCHING (newly vacant) position closest to the center, and work backwards from the edge until everyone is as centralized as possible, then fill in the remaining spots with new players. People on the edge would move, but people in the center would not. There would still be gaps to fill in with new people (positions that didn't match with existing players), but you could shrink the map to a quarter of the size, with everyone still matching their current relics, and then start filling in again, using the sandbox (tutorial area) to only admit active people.

For people in the tutorial area, the array of the 6 sectors in the sandbox could actually match an open position on the map, which would be reserved for them, but if they don't emerge within a week then that position and array is allocated to a new sandbox player. If the first one does actually continue and finally emerge, they could be placed in the next available matching location spiraling out from the center. Basically, open positions would be arrayed and distributed to the sandbox players as they register, and whoever emerges from the sandbox first would take the first matching spot, etc, etc. Positions that get skipped (unclaimed) would be continue to be reallocated until someone emerges to claim them.

Just a tentative way of implementing the transfer. It isn't set in stone. Whatever is easiest is usually best.

 

[DeletedUser]

They are planning a purge anyway, I think.

I hope so!

The map IS a regular tessellating pattern. As far as condensing active players toward the middle (while avoiding a virtual class divide by relegating new active players to the outskirts) I would suggest rearranging them to occupy close to 1/2 of available map positions, leaving the other 1/2 available to new players.

For people in the tutorial area, the array of the 6 sectors in the sandbox could actually match an open position on the map, which would be reserved for them, but if they don't emerge within a week then that position and array is allocated to a new sandbox player.

I disagree with this. If the purpose of the training map is to vet players for their activity, why reserve them a position in the world map (which they can't see yet, anyway) before they pass the metaphorical credit check? Fill the spots in on first come, first served basis to those that graduate from the tutorial map.

Basically... whoever emerges from the sandbox first would take the first matching spot, etc, etc. Positions that get skipped (unclaimed) would be continue to be reallocated until someone emerges to claim them.

So, yeah, that. But only that.

 

[DeletedUser723]

The 30 day wait for a purge is too long. I have been visiting towns well beyond my active playing area, up to seven provinces over in many directions, and there are very few active players. I visited so I could start Scouting toward people who might offer Neighborly Help, since I only have three Neighbors in my 56 Discovered or Scouted Provinces. Maybe a shorter purge time would resolve?

No, I do not want to abandon my tiny Fellowship for a larger one who could offer Neighborly help, because I have read the discussion about Fellowship hopping and people getting kicked out based on rank. I am not interested in playing a political game. (Besides, I have just been made Archmage of my Fellowship, and get to rename it and redesign the banner, Bwahahaha )

 

[DeletedUser684]

I disagree with this. If the purpose of the training map is to vet players for their activity, why reserve them a position in the world map (which they can't see yet, anyway) before they pass the metaphorical credit check? Fill the spots in on first come, first served basis to those that graduate from the tutorial map.

The reason is this: As people "arrive" in the sandbox, if you don't increment the starting pattern (i.e. assign a new available position to each person) then you would end up assigning the same position to every new arrival until someone actually emerges. That means there could be a hundred people assigned to the same map position before the first one emerged, whereupon to increment the sandbox position and to start with the next set of arrivals. That means that for the hundreds of new arrivals with that starting pattern, every one that emerged would have to be placed at the next available matching pattern. This could potentially throw the new players all over the map (entirely in an area by themselves) before the next position is assigned and made available. I think that assigning each new sandbox player with a "matching" position, but not actually on the map, and holding it for them for, let's say 3 days, would allow more variety in starting positions and would fill the map more densely. I think I had the Trader Tech within the first day -- which is essentially where you have to be mapped to an actual position -- so if you want to reduce it to 2 days to find active, interested players, that would probably also be fine. The point is that the game expands by hundreds of people per day, and yet the number that reach Trader Tech is very limited. That is, by the way, approximately where I would put the point of insertion onto the main map. Until you have trader tech, you really have not proven yourself to be interested in the game enough to even apply for a fellowship. (In my opinion.)

 

[DeletedUser]

[Y]ou would end up assigning the same position to every new arrival until someone actually emerges.

Not so. There are only 9 patterns on the map for cities and their surrounding provinces; assign players a pattern on entry to the sandbox. This could be on an even rotation or, at least theoretically, proportional to the vacancies in each pattern within the occupied world map radius. You enter the sandbox with pattern #5, you complete the tutorial and gain entry to the world map in the closest #5 vacancy to the map center.

 

[DeletedUser61]

I have no information regarding how dependent the boosts are on city location, but I suspect that the boosts simply go into the city record. I can't imagine that the programmers would want to make repeated queries just to see how the world map is arranged. For your INITIAL boost the arrangement makes a bit of a difference, because the relics for your basic boost need to be to the North, Southwest, or Southeast of your city to ensure that you'll have access for the tutorial. For your 2nd and 3rd boosts you'll have already discovered a couple dozen sectors, so the location of those relics is incidental.

I certainly won't want to change the city boosts that were initially established. but physical proximity to your boosted relics matters not at all once you're past the tutorials, so moving cities around, to optimize the World Map shouldn't make any difference at all, except that the distances ,and therefore the costs and dangers, would change for unexplored sectors .

Most people don't realize that ALL of the boosts depend on the row of relic sectors that is immediately below the row of cities. Southwest and Southeast are obvious, but North (for a different city) also reaches up into that same row. The row of relic sectors that's immediately above the city has no effect whatever on boost selection.

 

[DeletedUser]

Took me a moment to understand your row references, Katwijk; I actually don't visualize the map in horizontal rows. With the hexagonal honeycomb pattern, I see it in diagonal rows oriented with a down/right tilt. Everyone on your diagonal has the same boosts as you, and there is a repeating pattern of nine diagonals.

1. City, Crystal, Magic Dust, repeat.
   
2. City, Marble, Scrolls, repeat.
3. City, Gems, Steel, repeat.
4. City, Silk, Elixir, repeat.
5. City, Planks, Crystal, repeat.
   
6. City, Magic Dust, Marble, repeat.
   
7. City, Scrolls, Gems, repeat.
   
8. City, Steel, Silk, repeat.
   
9. City, Elixir, Planks, repeat.

This is what actually generates the nine location patterns. An Even more apparent pattern is in the vertical columns:

1. City, Planks, Steel, City, Marble, Planks, City, Steel, Marble, repeat.
   (With cities removed - Planks, Steel, Marble, repeat.)
2. Crystal, Silk, Scrolls, repeat.
3. Magic Dust, Elixir, Gems, repeat.

 

[DeletedUser61]

The diagonal is a consequence. The 9 relic horizontal tessellation is far more primitive.

 

[DeletedUser]

There are multiple valid ways to see the map. I've tried to show several of the different pattern elements here:

I find it useful to see it from one angle, you see it from another. That's cool. We all process information a little differently.

 

[DeletedUser61]

The essential notion is that nothing is ever more than 9 sectors away, and EVERYTHING is evenly distributed.

 

[DeletedUser684]

it also does say that the boosted items for each of the 9 possible starting positions is related to the pattern around your city... so... there is no worry about getting the right boosts for your sandbox or the related position on the map.

 

[DeletedUser684]

Not so. There are only 9 patterns on the map for cities and their surrounding provinces; assign players a pattern on entry to the sandbox. This could be on an even rotation or, at least theoretically, proportional to the vacancies in each pattern within the occupied world map radius. You enter the sandbox with pattern #5, you complete the tutorial and gain entry to the world map in the closest #5 vacancy to the map center.

OK, we were just thinking of increments being stored a different way. I think that would work, yes, and is probably simpler. Now if we can just get the developers to agree.

 

[DeletedUser]

Meanwhile, on the bloated servers...

Arendyll:

• Total Accounts: 54,805
• Median Score: 44
  
• Completed Tutorial (Score>22): 30,946 [56.5%]
  
• Established Players (Score>1,000): 10,105 [18.4%]

Wynyandor:

• Total Accounts: 43,250
• Median Score: 22
  
• Completed Tutorial (Score>22): 19,185 [44.3%]
• Established Players (Score>1,000): 2,650 [6.1%]

When (and how) can we expect to see these numbers improve? How much of a priority is it for the development team to address the exponentially high number of hit-and-run accounts with something more effective than the current purge schedule?

 

[DeletedUser61]

I'm just guessing, although it's an educated guess, but I suspect that they DID have a more elegant solution in mind, but the the problem was getting SO bad that they had to do SOMETHING, and clearing out dead cities after 30 days is something that it was possible to implement with a very modest addition to the program.

To the point, now that we've turned the corner on the memory crashes, have Fellowships, and the regional servers are up and running, the developers will now be able to implement some of the goodies that they've been itching to try.

Will a more elegant World Map optimization approach solve the Bump and Run problem? Not if they keep upping the advertising budget, but that's actually a good thing.

 

[DeletedUser684]

Will a more elegant World Map optimization approach solve the Bump and Run problem? Not if they keep upping the advertising budget, but that's actually a good thing.

LOL. Yeah, I'm seeing Elvenar popping up everywhere.

 

[DeletedUser]

I'm all for a tutorial map. I hadn't seen much movement in my area the entire time I was here (about to leave era three) but now there's suddenly a lot of activity in my trade window and several new cities on my map. I think I got some better neighbors.

 

[DeletedUser61]

I would also prefer that the game open in sandbox mode, with the tutorials being an optional series of quests.

I'm pretty much convinced, however, that the purpose of the hard wired activities, for the first several minutes of game play, are more about providing an elaborate "are you a real player or just a troll or a robot" filter than they are about introducing the game.

I'll cross post some information that I posted in the Beta forum, because it's entirely relevant to our discussion.

SUGGESTION: Wait until a new player actually VISITS the World Map, for the first time, before they're assigned a city sector.

World	No Workshop	Page of	Pages
beta1	8%	1599	1737
en1	26%	2911	3922
de1	11%	5433	6087
us1	25%	5331	7083
us2	31%	1150	1368
es1	16%	1150	1168

• A Human Workshop generates a score of 15
• An Elven Workshop generates a score of 18
• They then build a Statue (no score increase)
• They then visit the World Map to get a Relic (a score increase of 1)
• New players won't even have a logout icon until they've upgraded their Builders Hut
  (Their score will be 19 or 22 at that point.)
• They DO NOT need to confirm their email address during their initial visit

Presently, all new players are immediately assigned a city on the World Map and, if they never return, the rest of us have to deal with

• A dead city for 30+ days, or indefinitely for a premium account
• An empty sector
• A new neighbor
• Rinse and Repeat

Most of the churn could be avoided by simply WAITING until a player actually visits the World Map, for the first time,
BEFORE they're assigned a city sector.

Note that a very similar feature could be implemented rather quickly, with minimal risk.

• If a city has a score of less than 15 (no workshop),
  simply flag it after 24 hours of inactivity, rather than waiting for 30+ days,
  even if it's a premium account city.

My methodology was very simple.

• I visited the indicated worlds
• I found the highest numbered rank page that had a score of 15
• % of Players with No Workshop = 1 - (Page with a 15 / Total pages)
• Note that vacant lots make the numbers even scarier