News from Beta - May Contain Spoilers!

[AtaguS]

I'm ok with tournaments getting harder the more a city advances in the game, but using premium expansions to calculate difficulty seems a strange way to encourage players to buy premium expansions...and an even poorer way to thank those who already did.

 

[Dominionofgod]

Players, especially players that fully immerse themselves in the game.... use and adapt, to the rules.
Then that information is disseminated to the mass's... what that creates is a playerbase that usually
is way ahead of the coders.... the coders are left to "react" to what players do or dont do....

What drives all of this is 1 thing $$$$$$$$$$$..... yes , this is a buisness, and just like my trading
in the game, profit is NOT a dirty word. But when things are changed because of $$$ or because
of unintended consequences of players adapting in wierd ways the coders never thought of, then
Inno ends up playing the "react" game, and not the "game innovation" game....

When things that make the game funner or easier are discarded in favor of ONLY $$$ building
changes.... over time, the players and thier revenue will go away....
BrinD

That is very true. And for the most part i always try to factor those things in when adjustments/changes/additions to the game are made. Even when its one thats not overly liked by the masses. Such a when they changed the kp reward from tourney chests to the AW KP instants. Many were upset because now they cant us it in the tech tree like they had been. But it wasnt so much a change for the worse type of deal but rather an adjustment to get it closer to what inno intended the rewards to be utilized for.

So dispite the inconvience at the time, i didnt hold it against them as a bad move. - Now i just need to convince myself to actually use the instants rather then hoarding them... I also give inno credit for the amount they actually listen to there players on. They have made a number of adjustments and changes these last couple years based on actual feedback. Whether it was a big adjustment or even somethign as small as adding that checkbox to the workshops to start them all at once (which i love!). They have tried to lsiten to there players more then im used to seeing from gaming companies.

I cant even complain, over all, about tourney over hauls. It needs it, no questions asked. None the less tho.. i cant help but be a little annoyed that what iv worked the last two years towards might not longer be an option after the over haul. It might be a small and personal dislike.. but thats 1-2 years of my time. Even if the over haul is a good one, there will be a part of me annoyed.

 

[satchmo33]

I have NO idea how to relay my feedback from my initial foray into Beta, so am using this trail. Except for the every-other-one evolving building 'evolves'.....the Grand Prizes are sooooo less than "Grand" as can be. This is a serious flaw that needs to be corrected befor you take it live. They are THE least-desired/needed items in the game. Here's my pronouncement: (jus' a minute....getting up on my podium...) We. Don't. Want. KPs. As. Prizes. Or rune shards. Or runes, for that matter.

 

[Henroo]

Is it 100% confirmed that squad size upgrades no longer affect tournament squad size?

 

[Pheryll]

Is it 100% confirmed that squad size upgrades no longer affect tournament squad size?

Pretty much. The video states they are no longer used, and the factors cited as being used are also used in the spire squad size.

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

Is it 100% confirmed that squad size upgrades no longer affect tournament squad size?

You can use my tournament calculator to play with it - all the inputs are in there.

 

[Risen Malchiah]

Has anyone in beta suggested for difficulty to be based on *mandatory* squad size upgrades (thus tying difficulty with progression), but letting optional squad upgrades improve the ratio of our troops vs enemies in the tournament?

It seems the proposed changes completely divorce squad size from anything except world map encounters and while that does fix the problem of squad upgrades making tourneys more difficult, it seems counter-intuitive to eliminate their influence completely.

 

[DeletedUser9601]

Genuine question and not trying to troll... For those complaining (which is basically everyone), what else could the devs do?

The way I see it, tournaments become a tiny snowball rolling into an avalanche. Each week, you do tourneys. You use that KP to grow wonders. Your wonders level up. Stronger wonders mean each week you can do more in tourneys. Etc etc.

I quit a year(?) ago, and this issue was obvious to me then. I can only imagine what my city and AWs would look like after 52 weeks of hardcore tourneys.

There's some slowdown each chapter with mandatory squad sizes. But that's only every 6 months, and it's offset by new wonders and new units.

So how do else do you reset tournaments so they're not trivializing KP, spells, relics, RRs and everything else they provide?

And mind you, do it in such a way that is not "just boost KP costs for all techs/AWs" because in theory not everyone does tourneys. So you can't assume every player in Elementals+ is getting 100KP per week from tourneys.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Genuine question and not trying to troll... For those complaining (which is basically everyone), what else could the devs do?

I think there are two groups of complainers. Those who do not understand yet that this will not hurt them and those who run all the low stars and collect lots of KP, while helping their fellowship get chests because not enough members can pull the 1600 points. I am annoyed about the loss of KP, but looking at the new numbers, I can do 4k points more easily in the new system by doing 6 stars in 15 provinces, than I could in the current system. Even players who do not have the time or the bear or AW to get to the 6th star should still have it easier to get points.

The way I see it, tournaments become a tiny snowball rolling into an avalanche. Each week, you do tourneys. You use that KP to grow wonders. Your wonders level up. Stronger wonders mean each week you can do more in tourneys. Etc etc.

That depends on which AWs you are leveling up, whether they are military-related or not. In the new system, all AWs levels have an effect, just like in the Spire. But all they do is change your starting squad size, not the difficulty of the fights. Difficulty is the same for everyone, regardless of squad size. The only limit is from how much troops and goods you can produce in a week.

I quit a year(?) ago, and this issue was obvious to me then. I can only imagine what my city and AWs would look like after 52 weeks of hardcore tourneys.

There's some slowdown each chapter with mandatory squad sizes. But that's only every 6 months, and it's offset by new wonders and new units.

So how do else do you reset tournaments so they're not trivializing KP, spells, relics, RRs and everything else they provide?

And mind you, do it in such a way that is not "just boost KP costs for all techs/AWs" because in theory not everyone does tourneys. So you can't assume every player in Elementals+ is getting 100KP per week from tourneys.

I am hoping that with the reduction of easy KP from this change, that they will reduce the costs of leveling AWs from 31-35, and the KP costs for end-game AWs in general. And there is the rumor that chapter 17 will need around 7k KP to do all the research. Hopefully that will be reduced as well, with the loss of tournament KP.

 

[Kekune]

Has anyone in beta suggested for difficulty to be based on *mandatory* squad size upgrades (thus tying difficulty with progression), but letting optional squad upgrades improve the ratio of our troops vs enemies in the tournament?

Yes, or at least something very similar to this. I didn't see a direct response from the mods to that suggestion, though.

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

The way I see it, tournaments become a tiny snowball rolling into an avalanche. Each week, you do tourneys. You use that KP to grow wonders. Your wonders level up. Stronger wonders mean each week you can do more in tourneys. Etc etc.

That's kind of what the game is all about. They can clamp on that, but then existential questions about "why are we playing this game? What is the goal?" will become more prevalent.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Has anyone in beta suggested for difficulty to be based on *mandatory* squad size upgrades (thus tying difficulty with progression), but letting optional squad upgrades improve the ratio of our troops vs enemies in the tournament?

For years and years, multiple times.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I quit a year(?) ago

Welcome back! (maybe?) I left a few days after you did, and I too could not resist the sweet sweet siren call that is Elvenar and have thus returned for a time at least.

 

[sam767]

Wow! I caught up on this thread.
The existing tournament system is totally broken.
I do not know if the Beta update addresses my issues, but anything is better than what we have now.
In my main account: CH15, 2 premium expansions left: tournaments are mind-numbingly boring. I literally doze off as I am selecting and auto-fighting. I typically go 48ish by 2 and the 6x9 for the other goodies for 5K. I don’t really care about the R2 KPs, but they are there, easy, so I take them. I was so irritated at this tournament system that I stayed in CH6 for a loooooooong time. Instead I I created another account that did not take squad size upgrade 10 (thus sitting in CH4), scouted ahead to ring 9 and routinely got 5K per tournament by exploiting the shortcomings in the current system.
I have a lot of expansions and AW upgrades and still find summiting the spire challenging (meaning NOT BORING) but always doable. I suspect these will not be a huge factor in my weekly 5K.
YMMV with the new system, but I am frankly thankful that Inno is trying something.

 

[Xelenia]

quit a year(?) ago, and this issue was obvious to me then.

Well, hello there

 

[Mykan]

I quit a year(?) ago, and this issue was obvious to me then.

You need to return so we can continue our discussions on combat strategy, we will be learning a whole lot of things all over again

They have done a big explanation piece and much of it was on trying to maintain some level of challenge as a town grows and making it easier for casual players which is their main player base. So based on that reasoning it makes sense why they have taken the approach they have

They have hinted at some changes coming down the track, some will be on beta next tourny (forget which ones they said) and some they have vaguely said they are looking into. We do know they have planned for time to tweak, analyse data and get the formula where they want it.

 

[Risen Malchiah]

I can only imagine what my city and AWs would look like after 52 weeks of hardcore tourneys.

Not as high as you'd think. I've played every tourney since it became FS-based and have gone deep into the tourney for most of that time, especially after the introduction of the Fire Phoenix over a year ago. After all that time, most of my AWs are still just in the teens. Some as low as 6, others as high as 22. The people in the 30s are either very selective about which AWs they upgrade, or they're using push accounts, or they go even deeper than I do.

So how do else do you reset tournaments so they're not trivializing KP, spells, relics, RRs and everything else they provide?

Do they need a reset? If the system ain't broke, why tinker with it? I'd love for them to change the difficulty formula so optional squad sizes don't negatively affect players, but other than that, I think the system is great as is.

The developers can't simply remove or nerf such a major component to the game like this without a massive fallout. (And there's no way to sugarcoat losing out on hundreds of KP per week from rounds 2 & 5.)

The game staff are creative people. This requires a creative solution, not brickwalling the difficulty.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

Not as high as you'd think. I've played every tourney since it became FS-based and have gone deep into the tourney for most of that time, especially after the introduction of the Fire Phoenix over a year ago. After all that time, most of my AWs are still just in the teens. Some as low as 6, others as high as 22. The people in the 30s are either very selective about which AWs they upgrade, or they're using push accounts, or they go even deeper than I do.

Add wonder searching as a extra alternative, this is very time consuming but can also be very rewarding. there are many days where you do find 200-400KP a day and my personal record is well over 1500 on a day. and if you are lucky to be in a fellowship where a handful of players are seaching you can share the burden and share the rewards.

This is how I leveled most of my wonders in the past 2.5 years besides all the KP from the tournaments and the roi from wondermail/wonder chains.
Since they improved the rewards in wonders this became a very lucrative investment

 

[Risen Malchiah]

@CrazyWizard You are indeed crazy. I have an old laptop with graphics set to low and cities still take too long to load. I can't imagine going from city to city to do that, though you have a point. The new AW features make doing that much easier now since you no longer have to scour within each city.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

@CrazyWizard You are indeed crazy. I have an old laptop with graphics set to low and cities still take too long to load. I can't imagine going from city to city to do that, though you have a point. The new AW features make doing that much easier now since you no longer have to scour within each city.

the "makes it easier" also makes there is more competition
It become interesting once they modified those wonder chest, before you struggled to make 5 or 10 profit so the investment vs reward was not interesting but now you easily get 5-10-15 profit, sometimes 20-30 and if you are lucky you hit the jackpot with a 70 profit or so.

The main difficulty and time consuming was the initial search for players who (mostly) fill there own wonders, once you have build up a catalog of interesting targets it becomes a lot less time consuming, tho with the current button just wild searching can sometimes be just as lucrative since it takes a lot less time to see all wonder inputs these days.

Crazy maybe but if you like to compete with pushers without pushing you need some alternatives