Orc Warriors/Strategists - Too Expensive?

[DeletedUser9601]

I just unlocked Orc Strategists/Warriors, and was surprised that they cost Orcs, rather than supplies, to train. This got me thinking - is it more efficient to train Treants vs Orc Warriors? Golems vs. Strategists? The numbers were the same for both, so I did some math:

Treants cost me 4,698 supplies to train 54 units. With a 1059 squad size, that means a full (i.e,, 1.0 Treants in the world map battle) Treant squad costs 15,409 supplies.

Orc Warriors cost 163 orcs to train 163 units (yay for easy math!). With a 1059 squad size, that means a full Orc Warrior squad costs 530 Orcs. With my level 23 Breeding Grounds, I can produce 360 Orcs for 11,500 supplies, which means a full Orc Warrior squad costs me 16,928 supplies.

This means Orc Warriors cost almost 10% more supplies than Treants.

Some questions/thinking out loud?
1. Does anything think Warriors are 10% stronger than Treants? My review of the stats show some basic differences (Warrior has higher damage variance, higher initiative; Rank 3 Treant has more HP and a dazing lash debuff), but these seem to even out. They also different strengths (Treants very powerful vs Heavy Range, okay vs Light Melee; Warrior solid vs both), but again, not like one is significantly stronger than the other.

2. Is the difference to accommodate the fact that some buildings give free Orcs (and thus free units)? This makes little sense though, because plenty of buildings now give free supplies.

3. Is the difference to accommodate that supplies are very "liquid" assets (can build units, buildings, cater, goods production, etc.), whereas Orcs are "illiquid" (can only be used to cater, upgrade workshops, build Rally Point goods, and train 2 unit types)? This doesn't make sense, because if it this were the rationale, Orc Units should cost less.

Anyways, I can't figure out the difference (not that 10% is massive), hence this thread.

 

[Mykan]

Nice analysis. What rate of orc production did you work on? 12hrs?

I have no answers on the reasoning for the higher costs. Both orc units are specialists. The strategist is very effective against light range and in the right battle is the superior choice. I haven't played enough with the warrior yet but it is likely the same for its specialisation.

Have you looked to see if the supply cost for other specialist units is higher than their barracks counterparts? Maybe the answer is specialists cost more as a rule?

 

[DeletedUser9601]

Nice analysis. What rate of orc production did you work on? 12hrs?

Have you looked to see if the supply cost for other specialist units is higher than their barracks counterparts? Maybe the answer is specialists cost more as a rule?

I used 12/hr, which is the most efficient orcs per supplies. So if you're doing 2/day or 4/day, that 10% number is going to be a bit higher.

Good question on the "specialist" thought. I'll do some digging on that as well.

 

[Thistleknot]

I took a quick look at costs for units in the Barracks, Training Grounds, and Mercenary Camp. The Heavy units (melee and ranged) are priced the same per squad for the Barracks and Mercenary Camp. So the specialist cost is not a factor. I think the main cost factor for the orcs is from the fact that you only have 4 options for producing orcs. With the limited production times (minimum being 12 hours), this means that the cost for orcs will end up being a bit more than the cost of other troops that are based on supplies. Not sure if they are necessarily worth the additional cost in supplies. I have used Elder Treants for a fight and lost only to turn around and do the same fight with Orc Warriors and win. Paying attention to the percentages of what units are good against definitely pays off. Probably more so if you manually fight a battle.

 

[Mykan]

Not sure if they are necessarily worth the additional cost in supplies. I have used Elder Treants for a fight and lost only to turn around and do the same fight with Orc Warriors and win. Paying attention to the percentages of what units are good against definitely pays off. Probably more so if you manually fight a battle.

Same goes for auto. Many times I have lost with cannoneers and then switch in strategist and win easily.

 

[DeletedUser3297]

Several months ago when the Orc nest came out, I knew this was one of the better event buildings to get. I think I even said it was the best event building ever (still think that)

After or during Orcs, getting these nests means you get Orcs for free. This can be very helpful during Orcs, but even more so after Orcs. Since supplies are hard to come by. I know a lot who leave their armories idle because of the high cost of production of Orcs.

Maybe, just maybe the Orc nest is not as bad as everyone is complaining about...

As for turning them into units, yes, my 2 star Orc Strategists are a lot better in battle than my 3 star Rad Mortars. I am just glad I don't have to produce supplies to train them

 

[DeletedUser1053]

As with most things, situation is important. Also, the orc units are still not at level 3. comparing a level 2 to a level 3 is not truly equal. when they are both at max, it will be much easier to fairly compare them.

 

[DeletedUser9601]

As with most things, situation is important. Also, the orc units are still not at level 3. comparing a level 2 to a level 3 is not truly equal. when they are both at max, it will be much easier to fairly compare them.

Disagree. Level 3 Treants come out in the same chapter as Orc Warriors. So Inno considers them equivalent, because they are available at the same point in the game. Further, their stats, while not the same, as "similar."

 

[Ashrem]

The strategist is very effective against light range and in the right battle is the superior choice.

The strategist also has a ranged strikeback, which helps it pull above its apparent weight.