population rip off

[nightrider1]

i just discovered there is a 5% penalty on return of population when you sell off excess buildings built during an FA
it cost 20 to build a marble and when you sell it you get 17 back

 

[Smooper]

I just did it. It might have to do with having a golden abyss. what level of GA do you have?

edit: I got 18 back. It does seem odd. Not sure if it will correct itself.

 

[defiantoneks]

i brought this up before but there was some logical explanation.
cept i forget what it was…

 

[Astram]

The Answer is that when you build something that "increases" your working population like a W/S, it also affects the calculation of the GA and Mt Hall.
For example My GA lvl 26 is 43,051 pop bonus and Mt Hall lvl16 is 28701 pop bonus. When I add a lvl 1 W/S it shows 18 pop at a cost but only charges me 14 pop to build as my GA goes to 43,054 and Mt Hall to 28,703 which is +5 due to rounding. When I sell the W/S, I get +14 pop just as I built it and the Wonders got back to the same.

 

[Lelanya]

i just discovered there is a 5% penalty on return of population when you sell off excess buildings built during an FA
it cost 20 to build a marble and when you sell it you get 17 back

Yep, it's the Wonder effect. Try building a new workshop and you will see it doesn't cost the full amount listed in the build menu.
Good to see you, hon, you've been missed.

 

[Bearius23]

It should probably be coded differently. Right now it seems the AW benefits don't calculate until after you plop the building down, and I'm guessing it doesn't have to be that way? I had a situation recently where I was tight on population and I teleported a manufactory to inventory and then I immediately changed my mind. I couldn't summon it again! I had to plop something down that provided more population, which I then had to get rid of after bringing the manufactory back out.

 

[ajqtrz]

And I was just about to send an enquiry to support about this. The population on my lvl 1 workshops was 15 but I only got 11 back and was wondering. I did think the balance might be an effect of the GA/MH but didn't know. Glad I asked rather than bother support with (another) mistaken idea from me that something is wrong.

AJ

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

It should probably be coded differently. Right now it seems the AW benefits don't calculate until after you plop the building down, and I'm guessing it doesn't have to be that way? I had a situation recently where I was tight on population and I teleported a manufactory to inventory and then I immediately changed my mind. I couldn't summon it again! I had to plop something down that provided more population, which I then had to get rid of after bringing the manufactory back out.

This is exactly how the Golden Abyss and Mountain Halls are intended to work. Their population bonus is based on your working population, so if you had zero buildings out that required population, you would get a zero bonus. And it can't be coded differently because you can't get that bonus pop until after you place the building and put your pop to work.

 

[Iyapo]

And it can't be coded differently because you can't get that bonus pop until after you place the building and put your pop to work.

I am actually okay with them giving me population for buildings in inventory.

I support this change!

 

[Dhurrin]

It should probably be coded differently. Right now it seems the AW benefits don't calculate until after you plop the building down, and I'm guessing it doesn't have to be that way? I had a situation recently where I was tight on population and I teleported a manufactory to inventory and then I immediately changed my mind. I couldn't summon it again! I had to plop something down that provided more population, which I then had to get rid of after bringing the manufactory back out.

Indeed it doesn't come into effect until after it has been placed.

The AWs take care of a percentage of the NEEDED population.
So if you only had 17 pop available and a new workshop costs 20, you would not be able to place it. You need to have the 20 available to place it, but as soon as it has been placed, the AW kicks in and takes care of a percentage of the needed pop.

 

[Flashfyre]

Indeed it doesn't come into effect until after it has been placed.

The AWs take care of a percentage of the NEEDED population.
So if you only had 17 pop available and a new workshop costs 20, you would not be able to place it. You need to have the 20 available to place it, but as soon as it has been placed, the AW kicks in and takes care of a percentage of the needed pop.

So the Population Boost AWs are like the self-checkouts? Once you had 20 cashiers, then you put in an AW and **POOF** you can let 3 of them go.

 

[Dhurrin]

So the Population Boost AWs are like the self-checkouts? Once you had 20 cashiers, then you put in an AW and **POOF** you can let 3 of them go.

More or less so, yes.
Better to compare it to ordering something where you need to order a certain amount in order to get free shipping. You have to place the order first before you get the free shipping; you can't tell the company you'd like them to give you an x-amount of dollars worth of shipping cost without ordering anything.

As long as the building hasn't been placed (or upgraded) that new amount of population doesn't count as working population yet and thus you don't get a rebate. Once the build or upgrade has started, they do and so the AW's power kicks in.

But it does sometimes get confusing when you sell buildings and notice that you don't get as much pop back as you had expected. People tend to overlook the effect of the GA and MH there.

 

[Silly Bubbles]

As much as I understand the logic behind the current setup, I'd still love it to be changed. I got 30% discount on population so I have to place unnecessary pop buildings just to place something from inventory and then remove the unnecessary population. Even from a story point of view it doesn't make sense to need population to build something and then suddenly the workers disappear into abyss and underground mines, literally.

 

[Dhurrin]

As much as I understand the logic behind the current setup, I'd still love it to be changed. I got 30% discount on population so I have to place unnecessary pop buildings just to place something from inventory and then remove the unnecessary population. Even from a story point of view it doesn't make sense to need population to build something and then suddenly the workers disappear into abyss and underground mines, literally.

Ehm...I don't know why we would want anything changed. One just has to pay attention to the description.

And from a story point of view, does it make sense to have 1850 people living in a tiny Dark unicorn?
Or 1240 people in a Rainbow flower cage half the size of that unicorn?

The Abyss and Mines make more sense to me; just as underground dwellings...*chuckles*...the dark side of Elvenar; part of the population gets abducted and they are taken to cells underground where they are forced to work in the sweatshops to make clothing, and on mushroom- and worm-farms to make food for the rest of the population. I mean, unless the whole population is running around naked and living off air someone needs to provide the basics...right?

But you don't have to teleport pop buildings in and out. One can just keep some surplus pop available.

 

[Silly Bubbles]

Ehm...I don't know why we would want anything changed.

I do see that you don't want to change it but I personally don't like messing around with something temporarily then remove it immediately and waste resources. It might not make sense to you but it definitely makes sense to me.

 

[Killy-]

You don't need less people but you get extra people from the AWs. Might be basically the same in many instances but makes a difference when you don't have enough to place a building or for the unurium production.

 

[Dhurrin]

I do see that you don't want to change it but I personally don't like messing around with something temporarily then remove it immediately and waste resources. It might not make sense to you but it definitely makes sense to me.

Each to his own. I just don't see why you would want to do that either. I prefer to have at least some pop available at all times anyway instead of trying to have just enough.

 

[Silly Bubbles]

Each to his own. I just don't see why you would want to do that either. I prefer to have at least some pop available at all times anyway instead of trying to have just enough.

All that matters is that developers understand what I'm getting at. And what they do about it is fully up them, all I can do is to give feedback and that's what I did.

 

[Bearius23]

Ehm...I don't know why we would want anything changed. One just has to pay attention to the description.

And from a story point of view, does it make sense to have 1850 people living in a tiny Dark unicorn?
Or 1240 people in a Rainbow flower cage half the size of that unicorn?

The Abyss and Mines make more sense to me; just as underground dwellings...*chuckles*...the dark side of Elvenar; part of the population gets abducted and they are taken to cells underground where they are forced to work in the sweatshops to make clothing, and on mushroom- and worm-farms to make food for the rest of the population. I mean, unless the whole population is running around naked and living off air someone needs to provide the basics...right?

But you don't have to teleport pop buildings in and out. One can just keep some surplus pop available.

Story? From a story point of view, why on earth would some fancy gold mine produce an exact percentage of extra people proportionate to how many are working? The game mechanic has zilch to do with story, unless by story you mean "tooltip". Regardless, it's a clunky mechanic and there are absolutely ways to make it work slightly different to avoid said clunkiness.

 

[Bearius23]

More or less so, yes.
Better to compare it to ordering something where you need to order a certain amount in order to get free shipping. You have to place the order first before you get the free shipping; you can't tell the company you'd like them to give you an x-amount of dollars worth of shipping cost without ordering anything.

As long as the building hasn't been placed (or upgraded) that new amount of population doesn't count as working population yet and thus you don't get a rebate. Once the build or upgrade has started, they do and so the AW's power kicks in.

But it does sometimes get confusing when you sell buildings and notice that you don't get as much pop back as you had expected. People tend to overlook the effect of the GA and MH there.

Sorry but this is not a great analogy. It would be more accurate if it charged my card full price and then refunded the shipping in a separate transaction. Which, SOMETIMES wouldn't work because occasionally people only had the net amount in their account?