Price in the Eye of the Markets

[Desire2c]

Price in the Eye of the Markets

Current value is not the price that you paid, but rather the price or value that you would receive upon sale or trade. Value is often created on the basis of supply and demand. Although we use ratios and other metrics to help determine value, there are no set or firm rules to setting value. Value is set accordingly to what the markets are currently demanding.

When you purchase an investment like stocks or real estate you do so in hopes that it (your investment) will later realize a higher price (gains/ as a return on your investment). Those gains (profits) or possible loses will always depend on what future investors (players in our case) are willing to pay you for your gains (your asset or goods). It's all in the eye of the market.

Remember the “Trader” is an open market.

 

[Deborah M]

Price in the Eye of the Markets

Current value is not the price that you paid, but rather the price or value that you would receive upon sale or trade. Value is often created on the basis of supply and demand. Although we use ratios and other metrics to help determine value, there are no set or firm rules to setting value. Value is set accordingly to what the markets are currently demanding.

When you purchase an investment like stocks or real estate you do so in hopes that it (your investment) will later realize a higher price (gains/ as a return on your investment). Those gains (profits) or possible loses will always depend on what future investors (players in our case) are willing to pay you for your gains (your asset or goods). It's all in the eye of the market.

Remember the “Trader” is an open market.

What in the world? I'm thinking most people have some idea how Capitalism works. I don't know if you have noticed but there are a bunch of very intelligent folks on this forum. I read your post and reread your post. I have to ask what game you think you are playing. The trader concept in Elvenar is not to make a profit. It is primarily to be able to take your boosted goods to the trader and trade for your non boosted goods. There are many Fellowships who don't even allow trades below 2 star. Frankly, I for one, pay attention to never pick up trades below 2 star unless I have offered to help someone out. I actually know who the very few are who try to profit in the trader and even if they were to post pages of 3 star trades I would not take them. Not helping somebody who tries to gouge those I play this game with even if it somehow benefits me! I know plenty of others feel the same way.

 

[StarLoad]

Price in the Eye of the Markets

Current value is not the price that you paid, but rather the price or value that you would receive upon sale or trade. Value is often created on the basis of supply and demand. Although we use ratios and other metrics to help determine value, there are no set or firm rules to setting value. Value is set accordingly to what the markets are currently demanding.

When you purchase an investment like stocks or real estate you do so in hopes that it (your investment) will later realize a higher price (gains/ as a return on your investment). Those gains (profits) or possible loses will always depend on what future investors (players in our case) are willing to pay you for your gains (your asset or goods). It's all in the eye of the market.

Remember the “Trader” is an open market.

I wish there was a thumbs down option at times like this. So you condone a player offering badly needed goods that may be in short supply at extortion prices ... Good to know, as your trades will never be taken if I come across them with I won't since you are on Fely and Cera.

 

[Ashrem]

Remember the “Trader” is an open market.

That reflects a complete failure of understanding. An open market requires the ability of participants to alter their production to balance supply and demand. The fixed handout of "boost licenses" (for lack of a better term) combined with the developers' ability to inject specific goods any time they feel like it via event buildings which produce, makes this an example of pretty much the least open market that can possibly exist.

 

[Darielle]

Desire, you have completely lost the spirit of this game, which is not to be a killer on the stock market, but to come together in helpful fellowship in this world of Elvenar. If you want a cutthroat game, I think you'd be happier elsewhere. I would certainly never take a one star or zero star trade unless I knew the person had a disadvantage and wanted to help them out (such as a quest that needed completion before time ran out). I avoid people who constantly try to exploit the market ... and I avoid giving them neighborly help or adding to their wonders. I don't want to encourage such players. You're hurting yourself with that attitude.

 

[mucksterme]

I had to look three times to be sure that was really an OP
When I started reading it seemed like something from page three of another conversation
It reminded me of a guy I used to work with who would entire a room and say, "Well I had to call my step son to help me fix that pipe."
And I'd be like, "What did I miss? Did a pipe break in the wharehouse? You know we have contracted plumbers ."
But no he was talking about something at home that he had never mentioned before.

 

[Deborah M]

@mucksterme 'When I started reading it seemed like something from' my first couple of days in Economics class back in 1978

 

[StarLoad]

That or he just posted to bait an argument, no other posts and very low score on that account over to cities .... TROLL IMO.

 

[ajqtrz]

In defense of the original post the basic assumptions in the trader are pretty much the same as the stock market with a single exception. In the US stock market prices move based upon supply and demand. However, overall, the market is capped at a certain amount of drop or rise and if it reaches that point it is shut down for a bit.... the more times in a given amount of times, it crosses that threshold -- the longer it is given to "cool off". The prices of individual stocks are, of course, allowed to float this or that way as much as the market for that stock dictates. Thus, Elveaar's markets are actually the reverse of the US stock market. In Elvenar the individual "stocks" (i.e. each good) are restricted to a ratio to other goods and you are not allowed to grade outside that ratio. This, in effect, restricts volatility and reduces market fluctuations, which is where those who play any market, make their profit. It's closer to currency markets in this, if you think about it.

I would disagree with the idea that nobody plays the markets here, though. I've managed a reasonable profit each day as I take 3 star trades and offer the goods back at the right time for 2 star trade of the other goods. You have to be consistent and time it a bit (at the end of a tournament you can purchase the other goods of that tier because people get desperate for the goods needed for that tournament and offer the other two at three stars.) So it can be done.

In the end though, I have to agree that it's not an open market, but a governed market in which the range of trades is restricted and thus the ability to profit in trades is constricted.

AJ

 

[Jiali]

I just purchased some steel in the market with a bunch of spare marble I had laying around my city. I'm waiting for it to go up in price so I can sell it for some planks. But, alas, I cannot find the website for the prices of these commodities!

 

[Ashrem]

I would disagree with the idea that nobody plays the markets here, though. I've managed a reasonable profit each day as I take 3 star trades and offer the goods back at the right time for 2 star trade of the other goods

I don't doubt it's possible to generate some profit on a few trades, but the potential total profit is insignificant compared to a single factory's daily boost output. Even the most widely spread of explorers has a tiny pool from which to generate trades, and most markups at the sentient level are less than the daily decay. A person would have to be both dedicated and lucky to make 5% of their entire stock on a good day, let alone over the long haul. There is zero capacity to support even one city with trading profit.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Whether this was a bait topic or not, since this is the US forum, I think a lot of players here forget this game was created by Europeans, and initially for Europeans players, so the Trader is not based on American-style capitalism. There are limits and restrictions and the rating system to help keep it from being uncontrolled capitalism for trading. And I am glad they made the recent changes to the Trader to make it even less wide open. If the OP is legit, he or she is probably just still mad about those changes and wants to go back to the old unfair system.

 

[Ashrem]

If the OP is legit, he or she is probably just still mad about those changes and wants to go back to the old unfair system.

The account hasn't been around long enough to have played under the old system, and hasn't reached T2 and T3 to be affected by the changes to the cross-tier value, which is the only negative that would be worth complaining about. The changes had no negative affect for anyone who wasn't offering higher tiers for lower tiers. So for that to be true, the OP had to create two new cities recently, then play them for a few days, then join the forums, just to make the point. Seems like a large deception to complain that things were better before. My instinct is that it's a response to a PM from a neighbour complaining about them offering bad trades.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

The account hasn't been around long enough to have played under the old system, and hasn't reached T2 and T3 to be affected by the changes to the cross-tier value, which is the only negative that would be worth complaining about. The changes had no negative affect for anyone who wasn't offering higher tiers for lower tiers. So for that to be true, the OP had to create two new cities recently, then play them for a few days, then join the forums, just to make the point. Seems like a large deception to complain that things were better before. My instinct is that it's a response to a PM from a neighbour complaining about them offering bad trades.

Or it could be someone who has multiple accounts is using this one to complain more anonymously. It would not be the first time someone made a second account to do all his or her posting, in order to keep their real cities more private from all us nosy people who look everyone up on elvenstats, right @MinMax Gamer ?

 

[Ashrem]

Or it could be someone who has multiple accounts is using this one to complain more anonymously. It would not be the first time someone made a second account to do all his or her posting, in order to keep their real cities more private from all us nosy people who look everyone up on elvenstats, right @MinMax Gamer ?

That's not "Or."

I specifically said it was a possibility, it's just a lot of work for this particular issue, which lots of other people complained about, and unless they have a lot of other complaints which they haven't bothered to bring up after 5 days.

 

[Desire2c]

Many of you here in the Elvenar community have taken offense to my statement in my post and I don’t understand why. I have and I’m continuing to reflect deeply on this because I see how I have negatively moved the Elvenar community. I have developed a couple of friendships in the Elvenar community. All those friendship had a shaky start. I believe erroneous assumptions made my relationships difficult from the start. Body language and other visual subtitles plays such an important role in communication when interacting with people. I communicate easier through my body language and other visual clues so I find it more difficult communicating online. I think my new Elvenar friends felt I wanted to take advantage of the players or community in some way or form. Perhaps they got that idea because of my competitive spirit. Nothing could be further form the truth of me wanting to take advantage of anyone. I’ve seen this same dynamics and erroneous conclusion towards other competitive spirits, e.g. like between some great sport player’s relationship such as Michael Jordan, the late Coby Bryant and LeBron James.

I am new to Elvenar. this May 8th will by my monthly anniversary for the game. I’m personally inspired and quit taken back by creativity and beauty of many Elvenar cities the players in this community has built. I was attracted to this game for two reasons. First, the game was advertised as free to play. Secondly, Elvenar is similar to a computer game I played years ago (early 2000’s). I can’t recall the name of the game however, it was based on building a city and managing an economy. So, while dealing with the real world (covid-19) it was my idea to escape and build this Elvenar city for free and as fast as possible. My first challenge was having only two builders and not enough free diamonds to purchase a builder. Then the game offered me a free builder with the purchase of some diamonds. Not a bad idea I thought. I always use gift cards online and never my credit cards or bankcard. Unfortunately US gift cards are not accepted overseas and therefore I’m not able to purchase premium Elvenar features. So I moved on and continued to play Elvenar for free and challenged myself to see how far I can get playing in this mode without diamonds and premium features.

Please, have no doubt about the fact that I desire to see (desire2c) every player in all of Evenar’s communities to succeed and build beautiful, creative cities and provinces throughout the landscapes of Elvenar. I’m a commercial real estate broker and I’ve worked in real estate since 1991. Sellers and buyers are folks that I work for; they are my clients. I can not stress the importance of a win-win outcome on both sides of any transaction. If either side were to feel slighted or have any remorse from a onesided transaction even after years past I would feel pain. When I gave my opinion about trader I was only trying to present what I have learned (wrong or right) throughout my years in real estate. I did not realize that the economic terms I used was going to trigger the community’s emotions in such a negative way.

I read a book about 10 years ago called “Utopia” by Thomas More and translated by Paul Tuner. The book was still on my bookshelf. I pulled it off my bookshelf because this discussion made me want to re-read this book that is sitting here right beside me as I write. To my recollection the book is based on a world where all is free; all in in equilibrium - no rich, no poor and no hunger and no need to steal and no chaos. No economy or economic system period. The book does not present this world as a fantasy but as an idealistic world that can possibly be realized (but I will need to re-read the book to know for sure if this is what the book is exactly about). Nevertheless, I recommend this book to all the Elvenar players.

In conclusion:

I have always held the idea that any economic system could be successful if it was truly ran by the people for the people, be it socialist, capitalist or any other system other than an authoritarian, autocratic or tyrannical type system.

If Elvenar has evolved into a game having an anarcho-primitivism or utopia type system then I was and is wrong about the game. And I will consider not participating in the forum. I will continue to play the game without interacting with the Elvinar players if they prefer it that way. I also think the terminology used in the game should be changed to reflect a non economic system. Such current terminology used as trader, offer, demand, supply and coins.

However, if Elvenar was created and is still based on exchange, trade, etc. with the ultimate goal of having fun and building cities then I don’t think it is possible to not have these terms. I feel the game’s current economic dynamic can exist while all player on all sides of any trade can be winners and build beautiful cities and provinces especially when, in my opinion, each and every Elvenar player(including our computer army unit) are competing against a computer program and not against each other.

Regardless, as it now stands, it is my creed and I make this pledge to help any and all Elvenar player in reaching their ultimate goals rather those goal are to just have fun / and or to build beautiful cities.

 

[mucksterme]

Spoiler

Many of you here in the Elvenar community have taken offense to my statement in my post and I don’t understand why. I have and I’m continuing to reflect deeply on this because I see how I have negatively moved the Elvenar community. I have developed a couple of friendships in the Elvenar community. All those friendship had a shaky start. I believe erroneous assumptions made my relationships difficult from the start. Body language and other visual subtitles plays such an important role in communication when interacting with people. I communicate easier through my body language and other visual clues so I find it more difficult communicating online. I think my new Elvenar friends felt I wanted to take advantage of the players or community in some way or form. Perhaps they got that idea because of my competitive spirit. Nothing could be further form the truth of me wanting to take advantage of anyone. I’ve seen this same dynamics and erroneous conclusion towards other competitive spirits, e.g. like between some great sport player’s relationship such as Michael Jordan, the late Coby Bryant and LeBron James.

I am new to Elvenar. this May 8th will by my monthly anniversary for the game. I’m personally inspired and quit taken back by creativity and beauty of many Elvenar cities the players in this community has built. I was attracted to this game for two reasons. First, the game was advertised as free to play. Secondly, Elvenar is similar to a computer game I played years ago (early 2000’s). I can’t recall the name of the game however, it was based on building a city and managing an economy. So, while dealing with the real world (covid-19) it was my idea to escape and build this Elvenar city for free and as fast as possible. My first challenge was having only two builders and not enough free diamonds to purchase a builder. Then the game offered me a free builder with the purchase of some diamonds. Not a bad idea I thought. I always use gift cards online and never my credit cards or bankcard. Unfortunately US gift cards are not accepted overseas and therefore I’m not able to purchase premium Elvenar features. So I moved on and continued to play Elvenar for free and challenged myself to see how far I can get playing in this mode without diamonds and premium features.

Please, have no doubt about the fact that I desire to see (desire2c) every player in all of Evenar’s communities to succeed and build beautiful, creative cities and provinces throughout the landscapes of Elvenar. I’m a commercial real estate broker and I’ve worked in real estate since 1991. Sellers and buyers are folks that I work for; they are my clients. I can not stress the importance of a win-win outcome on both sides of any transaction. If either side were to feel slighted or have any remorse from a onesided transaction even after years past I would feel pain. When I gave my opinion about trader I was only trying to present what I have learned (wrong or right) throughout my years in real estate. I did not realize that the economic terms I used was going to trigger the community’s emotions in such a negative way.

I read a book about 10 years ago called “Utopia” by Thomas More and translated by Paul Tuner. The book was still on my bookshelf. I pulled it off my bookshelf because this discussion made me want to re-read this book that is sitting here right beside me as I write. To my recollection the book is based on a world where all is free; all in in equilibrium - no rich, no poor and no hunger and no need to steal and no chaos. No economy or economic system period. The book does not present this world as a fantasy but as an idealistic world that can possibly be realized (but I will need to re-read the book to know for sure if this is what the book is exactly about). Nevertheless, I recommend this book to all the Elvenar players.

In conclusion:

I have always held the idea that any economic system could be successful if it was truly ran by the people for the people, be it socialist, capitalist or any other system other than an authoritarian, autocratic or tyrannical type system.

If Elvenar has evolved into a game having an anarcho-primitivism or utopia type system then I was and is wrong about the game. And I will consider not participating in the forum. I will continue to play the game without interacting with the Elvinar players if they prefer it that way. I also think the terminology used in the game should be changed to reflect a non economic system. Such current terminology used as trader, offer, demand, supply and coins.

However, if Elvenar was created and is still based on exchange, trade, etc. with the ultimate goal of having fun and building cities then I don’t think it is possible to not have these terms. I feel the game’s current economic dynamic can exist while all player on all sides of any trade can be winners and build beautiful cities and provinces especially when, in my opinion, each and every Elvenar player(including our computer army unit) are competing against a computer program and not against each other.

Regardless, as it now stands, it is my creed and I make this pledge to help any and all Elvenar player in reaching their ultimate goals rather those goal are to just have fun / and or to build beautiful cities.

Is somebody paying you by the word?

 

[Deborah M]

Just a word of advice. It may not be a good idea to start playing a 5 year old game, play it for a month and then go on the forum to tell people who have been here for years how it is done. Speaking for myself, I'm here to garner info from other players who have been here for a long time or to ask questions directly. It is really nice if I can be of assistance if newer players have questions or to add a different play style perspective. That being said, I read the forum but did not even officially join for a couple of years because of the great long-term players advice and info. Of course long-term back then meant anybody in a chapter further along than I was.

 

[StarLoad]

First off you came here and by your post, you made 2 statements that you perceive as fact: 1 was of value and how it was intrinsically floating, and 2 was that there was an implied profit motive.

And you finished by telling us it is an open market.

Now that others have corrected you and maybe you have learned something you come back with feigned horror that "we" were offended by your comments, and your altruism is pure and that like great sports figures you are just ultra-competitive. Now you tell us how your error was just a product of your economic status and that you didn't realize that a player of less than one-month telling "we" who have been here 5 years that our use of "economics" was in error. But you have a good book that we should read. Thanks

Oh and your Conclusion is, IMO, utter crap. I will say no economic system run by man can be successful as "man" is a flawed creature, and besides successful is an arbitrary word and can have so many definitions that it becomes useless as a final judgment. 51% of the subjects are happy and well-fed and safe is successful but clearly not acceptable to the other 49%.

Spoiler: Conclusion

So please try and make up your mind and stick to one position platform and topic at a time. We Elvenar players are clearly not elevated enough for your wisdom

Ed

 

[Darielle]

Many of you here in the Elvenar community have taken offense to my statement in my post and I don’t understand why. I have and I’m continuing to reflect deeply on this because I see how I have negatively moved the Elvenar community. I have developed a couple of friendships in the Elvenar community. All those friendship had a shaky start. I believe erroneous assumptions made my relationships difficult from the start. Body language and other visual subtitles plays such an important role in communication when interacting with people. I communicate easier through my body language and other visual clues so I find it more difficult communicating online. I think my new Elvenar friends felt I wanted to take advantage of the players or community in some way or form. Perhaps they got that idea because of my competitive spirit. Nothing could be further form the truth of me wanting to take advantage of anyone. I’ve seen this same dynamics and erroneous conclusion towards other competitive spirits, e.g. like between some great sport player’s relationship such as Michael Jordan, the late Coby Bryant and LeBron James.

I am new to Elvenar. this May 8th will by my monthly anniversary for the game. I’m personally inspired and quit taken back by creativity and beauty of many Elvenar cities the players in this community has built. I was attracted to this game for two reasons. First, the game was advertised as free to play. Secondly, Elvenar is similar to a computer game I played years ago (early 2000’s). I can’t recall the name of the game however, it was based on building a city and managing an economy. So, while dealing with the real world (covid-19) it was my idea to escape and build this Elvenar city for free and as fast as possible. My first challenge was having only two builders and not enough free diamonds to purchase a builder. Then the game offered me a free builder with the purchase of some diamonds. Not a bad idea I thought. I always use gift cards online and never my credit cards or bankcard. Unfortunately US gift cards are not accepted overseas and therefore I’m not able to purchase premium Elvenar features. So I moved on and continued to play Elvenar for free and challenged myself to see how far I can get playing in this mode without diamonds and premium features.

Please, have no doubt about the fact that I desire to see (desire2c) every player in all of Evenar’s communities to succeed and build beautiful, creative cities and provinces throughout the landscapes of Elvenar. I’m a commercial real estate broker and I’ve worked in real estate since 1991. Sellers and buyers are folks that I work for; they are my clients. I can not stress the importance of a win-win outcome on both sides of any transaction. If either side were to feel slighted or have any remorse from a onesided transaction even after years past I would feel pain. When I gave my opinion about trader I was only trying to present what I have learned (wrong or right) throughout my years in real estate. I did not realize that the economic terms I used was going to trigger the community’s emotions in such a negative way.

I read a book about 10 years ago called “Utopia” by Thomas More and translated by Paul Tuner. The book was still on my bookshelf. I pulled it off my bookshelf because this discussion made me want to re-read this book that is sitting here right beside me as I write. To my recollection the book is based on a world where all is free; all in in equilibrium - no rich, no poor and no hunger and no need to steal and no chaos. No economy or economic system period. The book does not present this world as a fantasy but as an idealistic world that can possibly be realized (but I will need to re-read the book to know for sure if this is what the book is exactly about). Nevertheless, I recommend this book to all the Elvenar players.

In conclusion:

I have always held the idea that any economic system could be successful if it was truly ran by the people for the people, be it socialist, capitalist or any other system other than an authoritarian, autocratic or tyrannical type system.

If Elvenar has evolved into a game having an anarcho-primitivism or utopia type system then I was and is wrong about the game. And I will consider not participating in the forum. I will continue to play the game without interacting with the Elvinar players if they prefer it that way. I also think the terminology used in the game should be changed to reflect a non economic system. Such current terminology used as trader, offer, demand, supply and coins.

However, if Elvenar was created and is still based on exchange, trade, etc. with the ultimate goal of having fun and building cities then I don’t think it is possible to not have these terms. I feel the game’s current economic dynamic can exist while all player on all sides of any trade can be winners and build beautiful cities and provinces especially when, in my opinion, each and every Elvenar player(including our computer army unit) are competing against a computer program and not against each other.

Regardless, as it now stands, it is my creed and I make this pledge to help any and all Elvenar player in reaching their ultimate goals rather those goal are to just have fun / and or to build beautiful cities.

The best way to thrive in the market, desire, is to manufacture only your boosted items, no others, and then offer those boosts at a 5 percent discount to your neighbors for all of the other items. Your neighbors will not only love you, they will snap up your trades before others and you will wind up with huge amounts of all the items. That is the mark of true wealth in this game, and it's really worked for me. You don't lose with this method; you only win. Putting up zero star trades means you trade far, far less often (usually with newbies or people who click by accident, and then are angry afterward.) That's not the way to create wealth. Soon, people will avoid anything with your name on it. That doesn't help you. So try selling your boosts at a 5 percent discount ... you'll get many more trades, faster trades, and have more than enough supplies for everything you need, eventually. Good luck.