Quest cycling

[Ashrem]

So: given that the developers do not intend quest cycling, and that they and some players feel it is proving unbalancing, how would you "fix" quest cycling? Maybe we can get some ideas together then have a poll?

Note the given, to indicate that this isn't about whether or not quest cycling is unbalancing. The developers have already determined that and intend to fix it. People are welcome to debate that, but I think that deserves its own thread, not a piece of this one.

 

[Ashrem]

• Reduce the payout on quests? Drop them so that they are more of an acknowledgement and pat on the back rather than a way to generate funds and supplies?
• Replace the payout? Instead of cash and supplies, have them pay directly in non-boosted goods, so they can't be used to enable further quests. "Congratulations, you discovered 50 planks"
  
• Lower the pace? Have a timer (1 minute? 5 minutes) between quests being presented. Put the quest activator into a chest that drops in your city once per hour (like the Flurry Flakes), so you have to locate the quest, before you can accept or deny it. Or put the quests into neighbor help thankyou chests, so you have to find the quest by helping a neighbor before you can accept or deny it. Then bump up the number of chests to 10 or so, but have most of them be quests.
  
• Puzzles? Add some effort into the quest offer beyond just collecting goods that must be completed before you can even decline it. Turns the quests into an extra time sink to keep people engaged between the other aspects.

 

[SoggyShorts]

https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/quest-overhaul.6670/
there was a good discussion with some solid ideas in this thread

 

[nightrider1]

make all quest play level related
A+B=C
A is the building/workshop level
B is main hall level
C is the quest reward
right now building quests requirements go up with level of play you don't get anything building a level 6 residence if you are a level 15 main hall Make collection request the sam
I would rather have 2 level 15 =30 than 10 level 1+15=0
they already use this approach with other parts of the game. its not rocket science. This would eliminate using multiple low level slots being used to cycle quest

 

[Ashrem]

It's not MH based. I think it is quest progress based. My wife and I both have Level 15 MH, but our quest loop is very different. She's getting 2 Advanced tools and 40k coins for 4k supplies, while I'm getting 2 advanced tools and 120k coins for 7k supplies

 

[DeletedUser2870]

I feel the quests in chapters 1-3 are ok, since they are a kind of tutorial
After that it should split. 1 set of quests that follow the chapter. Those are the non-cycling storyline quests and thats fine by me.

The others could be struck out completely for all I care, but I wouldnt mind a line of non-cycling quests that are limited to only 1 each day, or perhaps 1 every 12 hours.
Missing them, or choosing not to do them would just mean you're out of luck, they shouldnt be stored to be done later. On the other hand, those quests might be rewarded reasonably well, to balance the fact that they are rare.

I must say I like the idea of finding quests by doing neighbourly help, that might limit the number too.

The event quests are a separate issue. Only thing I really would see changed there is that it should be possible to get to the end in the given time without needing spoilers to plan ahead.

 

[Ashrem]

Have one of the tiny little figures that is walking around the city be carrying a chest with the quest in it. You have to find, catch and click them before you can have the quest or they vanish off the road and pass the quest to another resident.

 

[nightrider1]

example ; 2 advanced tools +200000 coin at my lvl =13k supply whether wksp is a 1 or a 12
quest for upgrading residence changes with lvl of play i think its lvl 6 then 9 then 11 i no longer get anything upgrading to lvl6
lvl1 wksp=4sq lvl8= 6sk lvl 16=15 when you are at beginers lvl you dont have many coins as your collection increases so should the lvl of the workshop for the same quest.

It's not MH based. I think it is quest progress based. My wife and I both have Level 15 MH, but our quest loop is very different. She's getting 2 Advanced tools and 40k coins for 4k supplies, while I'm getting 2 advanced tools and 120k coins for 7k supplies

what are your tree levels? and my point is you can both still use lvl 1 wksp

 

[DeletedUser6390]

A lot of very good ideas!

 

[DeletedUser5100]

Just keep the quests for the early tutorial part of the game, with 2 or 3 non-repeatable quests for each guest race portion of the tech tree.

 

[WolfSinger]

I am in the Woodelves chapter with a lvl 22 Main Hall

These are my current cycling quests (I just went through and declined all of them to get the list):
[Note several months back there was an issue with the cycling quests adding the new ones for the current chapter and NOT dropping the old ones - at one point I had over 80 quests in the cycling quests group.]


Solve 4 Encounters – 40,000 coins / 8000 supplies
Fight and Win in 3 Encounters – 50,000 coins / 6000 supplies
Complete a Province – 20,000 coins / 4000 supplies
Gain 4000 Steel – 35,000 coins / 2500 supplies
Gain 4000 Scrolls – 15,000 coins / 4500 supplies
Gain 4000 Magic Dust – 50,000 coins / 1000 supplies
Produce 1 Giant Globe / Gain 16,000 Supplies – 150,000 coins
Produce 1 Mage Journal / Gain 16,000 Supplies – 150,000 coins
Produce 1 Firework / Gain 16,000 Supplies – 150,000 coins
Complete 1 Building Upgrade to Lvl 11 or Higher – 20,000 coins / 9000 supplies
Produce Beverages 10 Times / Produce Bread 2 Times – 15,000 coins
Complete 1 Workshop Upgrade to lvl 11 or Higher – 40,000 coins / 7000 supplies
Complete 1 Residence Upgrade to lvl 11 or Higher – 50,000 coins / 6000 supplies
Complete 1 Manufactory Upgrade to lvl 11 or Higher – 50,000 coins / 5000 supplies
Gain 200k Coins / Produce Advance Tools 2 Times – 13,000 coins
Complete 1 Boosted Manufactory Upgrade to lvl 11 of Higher – 50,000 coins / 5000 supplies
Produce Advanced Tools 6 Times – 80,000 coins / 2000 supplies
Produce 8 Bread – 40,000 coins / 1000 supplies
Gain 16,000 supplies / 100,000 coins

Personally - I would like to see the cycling quests set up so they only appeared 1 time in a 24 hour period. If you decline or complete the quest it vanishes until server reset. This allows these quests to remain as 'help' quests if someone is short on coins or supplies, but prevents the abuse everyone is so concerned about.

If a player was able to set up their city to be able to collect ALL of the quests every day they would collect 1,118,000 coins and 61,000 supplies.
(I have an elven city - your starting race and the chapter you are currently in may cause variations in the quests and reward amounts)

 

[DeletedUser5460]

One thing I think needs more mention is, there is a certain pleasure in completion. It's a significant part of any game. I say protect that by keeping cycling quests.

My idea would be to keep the quests and leveled reward content the same (also easier on developers), also retaining the ability to cycle, but then limit the ability to clear each quest to once a day.

That would give 100% control over maximum added gold & supplies per day, as well as giving players the freedom of deciding when to clear a particular quest (not trapping players into clearing the cycle-quests in order).

 

[DeletedUser6390]

I am not sure why they have not already decided that the quests can only be done once in .. whatever time period they choose. It seems like a very easy answer... people could still skip them as needed and get them all done. would be boring drudgery, but isnt cycling already that? No change.. just a limit. *shrug* must be a reason they have not done that already, if its an issue. you would think anyway?

BUT I love the idea of tying quests to neighborly help. either by getting quests in chests.. or by adding neighbor-related quests. or both.

 

[Ashrem]

I am not sure why they have not already decided that the quests can only be done once in .. whatever time period they choose.

They tried to change it on Beta before and the world fell on their heads. Too many people are convinced they won't be able to function without using it and there is a whole thing where people are teaching new players that it is the proper way to play.

 

[DeletedUser2870]

@Ashrem
exactly, because it is a very easy way to collect a great many coins and supplies, leaving the player with more pop and culture because he needs fewer workshops.
However, this only works for players who have the time to endlessly cycle through. I for one dont. And even if I had, I wouldnt since I feel its like cheating. Not to mention incredibly boring.

Now I would suggest a bit of an increase in the output of the workshops if the quests get adapted, as to make up for at least a bit of the loss. Not to mention that even with 12 maxed-out workshops Im often pressed to keep up my supplies for my factories (7, 4, 4) and recruiting and upgrading buildings if Im not using spells. On the other hand, the PoP spells really do a world of good.

 

[DeletedUser6521]

I am incredibly new and was looking for a time-waster city building game when I arrived here. I liked the quest cycling w/old wholesaler because I was able to help my mates with lvl 1 materials.
If the goal is to stop the quest cycling, maybe change quests from cycling as singletons to having a block of quests that cycle. You must satisfy all quests in the block before repeating any quests from the block.
The wholesaler change made me consider finding a new game but I think I am here for another week to see where this one ends up.
Thanks for listening.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

They tried to fix it when I started playing, and they lost half there playerbase in a mere few hours, resulting in a rollback.

Quest cycling cannot be fixed, city's are build around it and "fixing" it instantly means breaking all city's that use it.
You have to increase the amount of supplies the workshops produce massivly just to combat the loss of hammers people loose from questing.

Personally my main city runs using a million to a million and a half hammers a day, there is no way I can produce that in any decent amount of workshops. in addition look at the new race soon to be introduced, you most likely need 10 maybe 15 million hammers to pay for all the upgrades and researches. that is on top of what your city requires to run.

we unfortunatly became addicted and need those quests just to keep playing. whats the point in buying the additional workers if you cannot afford them to be working because a lack of supplies?

 

[SoggyShorts]

Quest cycling cannot be fixed, city's are build around it and "fixing" it instantly means breaking all city's that use it.

Well apparently there were cities built around the wholesaler, and inno had no problem "fixing" the wholesaler.
Any city that relies on the quests could probably nuke a couple goods buildings and build more workshops, sure they might not always maintain 500k+ of each tier all the time, but that's not so bad.
As long as there is some replacement, like improved workshops, reduced costs, etc it can be fixed.

 

[DeletedUser2870]

They tried to fix it when I started playing, and they lost half there playerbase in a mere few hours, resulting in a rollback.

Quest cycling cannot be fixed, city's are build around it and "fixing" it instantly means breaking all city's that use it.
You have to increase the amount of supplies the workshops produce massivly just to combat the loss of hammers people loose from questing.

Personally my main city runs using a million to a million and a half hammers a day, there is no way I can produce that in any decent amount of workshops. in addition look at the new race soon to be introduced, you most likely need 10 maybe 15 million hammers to pay for all the upgrades and researches. that is on top of what your city requires to run.

we unfortunatly became addicted and need those quests just to keep playing. whats the point in buying the additional workers if you cannot afford them to be working because a lack of supplies?

I wonder about this.
Im waiting at the end of the woodelves. Ive played without quest recycling from the start. I have 12 workshops to keep me supplied and with the exception of the moments where Im upgrading houses or factories, which Is only a certain time during a chapter, Im never short of supplies to run my city.
And I dont use many spells, so it could be even easier to do so, so the game can very well be played without cycling quests.

And yes, Im sure there are now many cities build on the cycling, but so what?
Many players had their cities built around fighting to expand. Nobody in the gameteam seems to have been bothered by the huge amount of players that quit when that was suddenly made impossible.
Or the huge number of players that are quitting now.

So Im not advocating changing it from one day to the next, but give fair warning, like a month in advance so players have a chance to reorganise and build up workshops. If players choose not to, thats their choice and then later on they need to live with it.
At the same time, increase the output of those workshops, since the output is a bit on the low side.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

Based on 5 cycles a day (3x 3 hours 1 time 9 hours or 2x 9 hours 1 times 3 hours)

My barracks alone require 419k supplies a day just to keep it running (only way to compete for the top spots at tournament). = 100 cycles = 20 workshops
My factories (9 marble, 8 crystal, 7 elixer) require 366k = 88 cycles = 17.5 workshops

so to keep my city running I would need to build 38 workshops or 19 magical workshops.

I would love to have some magical workshops, just for the sake of convienence. But as long as the blueprints are out of reach there is no way that I am gonna buy those.

just to show the difference:
2 workshops give 8340 supplies, (2*4170)
2 workshops with cycling give with my questline 21340 supplies (i could improve this a little more by advancing to the next series of quests now my marble factories produce 2500+ marble)

I am a town with 300k+ ranking points without any premium building in sight, I always run for the top spots at all tournaments.
12 workshops with no quest cycling will be just fine if you dont care about any progress on the ranking or any good results at the tournaments running just enouf factories to be able to afford the negotiation costs at the world map.

but thats not my play style, nor that of many others.

As said they tried it once and the lost half the players on beta in hours, beta never recovered most players never returned, there is a reason they revoked the changed, it's something they very rarily do (1st wholesaler change is the only one I experienced) and they never touched it ever ever again (while they still pursued the wholesaler).

They only worked on the quest themselved downtuning and removing the excesses (like the quest we abused to get like 40k goods in chapter 2 every single day, it now gives you 60k coins or so for a tier x day production. it in the past gave for example 1200 wood and 1200 steel for just running a lvl 1 marble factory on day production, imagine a small town running 10 lvl 1 marble factories giving 12000 wood en 12000 steel a day by questing)