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    Your Elvenar Team

Rune Shard changes


Well-Known Member
Getting a chest reward doesn't effect your balance.
Then what is going on with @MichaelMichael sounded like they were getting locked out because of chest rewards?


Well-Known Member
It does last forever. I give away over 500 KPs every day and am still locked for most hours of most every day. I will admit that I have plenty of KPs to spend, but it becomes a chore to spend them. I have taken to sending lots of 50 or more to anyone that trades with me. I have become the largest contributor for most of my fellowship's AWs. It really does last forever but I can agree that it is not the kiss of death. It actually is the opposite, it makes the game too easy and discourages team play. Giving is very different than trading.

BTW I gave you a gift

Not sure if you have a complete grasp on how this works. The bottom line is that if you get more than you receive after a secret amount...you get locked. So what you say you are spending still doesn't match what you are getting. You were successful in getting me locked with your generous contribution designed to do so and said you have more where that came from and "see you tomorrow". Sounds like a threat but I'll play with returns.


Day and Night Trader
Then what is going on with @MichaelMichael sounded like they were getting locked out because of chest rewards?
Chest rewards count. I have always given more than I got (exclusive of Chests). I will say that I overcame the problem.

First off, I gave one player an 800kp level outside my fellowship, then I started dropping a few hundred each day of lower chapter players in my fellowship. I expect I will eventually get locked out again but perhaps I have put it off for a few days. Meanwhile I solved the problem of too many shards. Within my fellowship, we are are trading full AW levels. Fast and easy.
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So would you mind if I contributed a few hundred KPs to your city and fellowship but below the expected return? I see that as far more aggressive and damaging as it denies shards especially to smaller fellowships. Based on you suggestion of "helping" people, I just gave 30-80 KP to 10 other players that were relatively close to finishing their AWs. In each case, I took the top position. I expect to earn more than I spent. Is that BETTER behavior in your estimation?

It's yours to give, why would i not let you.

BTW, If I cared what people decided that they liked, I would have quit a long time ago. I play as an optimization challenge, not to win any popularity contests. No one ever likes it when they are outbid. The person that offered more is disliked by definition because no one likes to ever admit that they were too slow, lazy or stupid to win in any competition. I play for the challenge of growing as fast as possible within the rules as written. Some might consider it rude to tell others how they "should" play any game (beyond minding their P's and Q's).

Nope, your running around in circles now witht this, so if we please can stay on track here. We were talking about adding 1 KP to get 5 or more - Adding way less than it will return. That's the problem and what most players don't like.


Well-Known Member
Anyone bored? I would like to know how much of the wonder costs is in the reward chests after the change (before it was about 20%) and does it vary with the wonder level? I would likte to know it but I don't really have the time right now to look into it.^^'



Day and Night Trader
Nope, your running around in circles now witht this, so if we please can stay on track here. We were talking about adding 1 KP to get 5 or more - Adding way less than it will return. That's the problem and what most players don't like.

Point 1: the last chest is worth 1 KP IMO, nothing more. I would rarely if ever increase beyond one to win the last chest in my fellowship or anyone else's. It is not worth trouble. If it was important enough for someone to go to 2, they might go to 4. If 1 loses, no player should ever risk two more to at most get 5 and potentially ZERO. If someone wants to bid 2 over 1, they can do that, but I don't. My experience shows that to mostly be a suckers bet.

Point 2: The goal is to get 1 for 5, or if there is a better opportunity, perhaps more. But for moment, let's forget later opportunities, I agree that one KP does not help a lot; but I'd rather get a gift of 1 rather than a gift of zero. So, I see nothing wrong with giving 1. It is mine to give. I will point out that if a player specifically asks me not to give, I do my best to accommodate their request. I had one or two fellowship leaders that asked me not to make any KP contributions. I do my best to accommodate those requests. Finally, If the result of my gift of 1 is ZERO, that is okay with me.

Point 3: I will give the one exception to Point 1. When I am about to close my AW, it would not be out of line IMO if I closed up all but 2 and then invited any player in my fellowship to bid 2. That is the exception to Point 1, but I do not think it isn't worth time to write the post or spend the 2, at least for me.

Point 4: Were you on the same world and neighborhood as me and we never communicated on this issue, you would find that I had put one KP on every AW you have. Every day, as part of my neighborly gift process, I would also add 1 to any new AW levels completed. Where you in my world today, DESPITE, or perhaps BECAUSE of approach of Zero tolerance, I would post one on your AWs even if you were not a neighbor. I say "despite" as your threat to remove point every time rings hollow to me. You cannot (or at least I cannot) control what people in my fellowship do. Frankly, I do not find a reason for your passion on this issue, but I would accommodate your request - not to gift you (or your fellowship) - if that is what you want.

Point 5: The game design is to encourage gifts to a level that the expected return is higher than the gift. Unless there is an external reason (a trade or other agreement), no one should ever gift without an expected return greater than the gift. One KP is never a shard or instant, so it is more valuable (per point) to the giver than points from other sources. The mechanism to eliminate high returns "much greater than the value of the gift" is bidding for those chests. Everyone gains KP every hour unless they have 10 or more. So, everyone can bid for those chests. That is the game design. It isn't stealing if no one wants to bid more on those "high return chests" or is slow with their bid. Expecting people to bid "more than needed" to win a chest seems counter to game design and human nature.

Point 6: The gift of one, early, is a statement that I am willing to invest in your AW and help you earlier than anyone else, because I am willing to wait until you get around to this upgrade. I take the risk that my 1 KP will be eliminated or that this AW is never upgraded. If there are multiple remaining chests when my point earns a chest, you gained one KP that you would not otherwise have gotten. If it is the very last gift, it might not have been filled when you chose to upgrade. If it is eliminated, you got one more. If there were multiple bids of 1 with some not getting chests, the early bird got the worm. It should be no skin of your teeth. If it denied a 5 chest to someone in your fellowship where they would have bid the one, they should have bid earlier - or bid 2 per point 2 to gain 5KPs.

In my own fellowship, many a chest goes unclaimed, despite a concerted effort to advise players of open chests when upgrades are imminent. Sometimes the time comes to upgrade and a few chests remain unclaimed.

My own schema puts 1 on every AW for all active players who are neighbors or otherwise interact - probably 1,000 to 2,000 AWs of active players. I see a few high level fellowships with gifting schemas showing gifts of 50 or more by many participants. In those fellowship, I am unlikely to gain the last chest. Even so, I post 1 most of the time. I will not post if my one, when posted, won't win the last chest. Otherwise, I know a few will get a return. I am willing to take that risk. The place where that my gift is most likely to get a return in those type of fellowships is low level AWs. Two or three 50's will close out those smaller AW levels. The system wins KPs due to my diligence checking every day. Most of the points out there will never get a return, but the newest ones for AWs that just upgrade have a high probability of return. It is an investment of Time, KPs that are place holders to ensure I never miss a recent upgrade.

Your last invite is to put 1 on every one of your AWs, with the assurance that none will get any return. I would gladly take you up on that offer. You state that such a gift will help you because you would gain you one KP per AW and no return for that gift would be realized. You invited me to gift you, I would then absolutely give you what you requested and we'd both be happy about it. I do not see what you are squawking about, we have no disagreement.
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If you look at what i write, and really read it, and then look at what you write - If you see that as the samme thing, Well, then i can't do anything about it.


I noticed in their live q&a about the current event is that runes are not random across all your wonders as they were in the past. The grand prize runes are for aw's you unlocked in the previous chapter and the royal prizes runes are from your current chapter.


Buddy Fan Club member
Your buddy finished a wonder, and since there were chest rewards handed out from his wonder his balance improved.

So it's
inbound : outbound 1:1
an allowance each day (adds up)
handing out chests from your wonder

Does this also include the value of the runes or the just the AWKP instants?


Oh Wise One
The sad thing with the kp block is it completely kills the ability of people to show appreciation to others for things they do. Gifting KP to a wonder was an easy way to do this, now it can backfire quickly as it can block a person. Frequently I have seen people donate KP due to advice (tourny, spire, city arrangement, etc.) , as a thank you for running FA, tourny champ or fun activities (like the unicorn race and betting a fs member ran), for trades, or simply tech locked.

The tourny mechanism adds to this, with people who want to do well in tourny generating a lot of unes but building minimal wonders. They have a huge capacity to be generous to others as they can't use the runes but it will simply lock peoples wonders up.

A person with an evil streak could easily use it to annoy/frustrate people by blocking their donations.


Mathematician par Excellence
Does this also include the value of the runes or the just the AWKP instants?
just instants
The sad thing with the kp block is it completely kills the ability of people to show appreciation to others for things they do.
Nah. Give it a couple of weeks and it will never be a problem for 99.99% of players.

You get an allowance every single day which stacks AND all KP chests handed out also bump you up.

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
That’s what I’m saying! I’m tempted to change the name of my city to ‘Hunters welcome!’ if it means my AWs get filled a little faster. I’m in a fellowship of 1 so I’ll take anything I can get lol.

Any evil minded people who want to come and lock me up....feel free!

Something like this is no big deal for players with only a few AWs, but for long-time players with most of the AWs, they are going to have some that they don't care about leveling up any further. So unless several players come along and completely fill one, those KP are never going to see a return.