Scouts traveling by sailing ship - SLOW

[MenolyDragonmist]

It is understandable that scouting several rings from your home city would take a while, traveling can take time. But as provinces become friendly it would seem that traveling though them to scout a non-friendly province would be faster. My scouting times have become so long that generating the materials to complete 8 encounters takes less time than opening a new province. The scout is so slow that it has become difficult to keep more than 2 or 3 provinces available for KP and relics. Is there anything that can be done (other than spending $$) to speed the scouts up? Do they get faster as you open more chapters? Not being able to pick up more than a handful of KP a day is a major source of frustration!

 

[mucksterme]

your logic fails
every province you have scouted was adjacent to a 'friendly' province
therefore your travel speed would not increase
the problem is those dang scouts tend to go native every time you scout, therefore to scout new territory you must send another scout all the way from your home province
thus it gets longer and more expensive

you will find many discussions in the forums that talk about over extending your territory
the game isn't designed to be all about territory growth
if you look at the big chest at the entrance to your next level of research you will see it tells you how many provinces you need to proceed
if it says something like " 60/34 " you know you have explored farther than the defs have the game designed for ultimate play

there are other sources of KP
you can buy it, but the price increases every time
also Tournys are a good KP source
and Mykan will tell you to build a ToS but I disagree

 

[MenolyDragonmist]

That explains it! Sort of like Mutiny on the Bounty, then the scouts who go to rescue the scouts who went native see what a great life it is and they go native too. So you've got to send more scouts.

Think you got me on exploring, I have started the Dwarf chapter and am only 15 provinces short of having enough to open the Woodelves chapter. Guess it will be a while before I have enough orc heads to go very much farther. Not getting two or three expansions per chapter is going to be a big adjustment! Not the answer I wanted, c'est la guerre. Did do searches for variations of scouts slow, will look for over extending.

 

[mucksterme]

That explains it! Sort of like Mutiny on the Bounty, then the scouts who go to rescue the scouts who went native see what a great life it is and they go native too. So you've got to send more scouts.

Think you got me on exploring, I have started the Dwarf chapter and am only 15 provinces short of having enough to open the Woodelves chapter. Guess it will be a while before I have enough orc heads to go very much farther. Not getting two or three expansions per chapter is going to be a big adjustment! Not the answer I wanted, c'est la guerre. Did do searches for variations of scouts slow, will look for over extending.

Lol
I knew what you had done because I made the same mistake. I am right at the entrance to Dwarves but have enough provs completed to enter fairies.
I backed off exploring and research a couple weeks ago and have been upgrading my buildings and putting my KP into AWs.

 

[Ashrem]

The scouts are unionized. For every extra ring you send them, you have to provide a trip home to spend some time with their spouses and children. all that back-and-forth adds up.

 

[DeletedUser2334]

your logic fails
you will find many discussions in the forums that talk about over extending your territory
the game isn't designed to be all about territory growth

also Tournys are a good KP source
and Mykan will tell you to build a ToS but I disagree

Respectfully have to disagree:
1) Tourneys were a good source of KP, not anymore
2) If this game isn't about expansion, what is it about? Should the game be constrained to what the developers want or what the players want?

 

[Ashrem]

If this game isn't about expansion, what is it about? Should the game be constrained to what the developers want or what the players want?

That is not a simple question and there is not a simple answer. That said, Games where the players get everything they want tend to vanish soon after. In general, people think we know what we want, but we are rarely fully correct. For a game to endure, it must challenge us.

 

[DeletedUser2334]

That is not a simple question and there is not a simple answer. That said, Games where the players get everything they want tend to vanish soon after. In general, people think we know what we want, but we are rarely fully correct. For a game to endure, it must challenge us.

Ashrem, I think we are on two different pages. I am not saying that I want the game to be without challenge. What I'm suggesting is that games that can give players the level of challenge they want, win major awards and make lots of money. I would argue that games where players don't get the challenge they want "tend to vanish soon after." What I've seen over the past 18 months is a game that was really enjoyable become less and less so with every modification to the level of challenge/pace of the game.

 

[Ashrem]

Ashrem, I think we are on two different pages. I am not saying that I want the game to be without challenge. What I'm suggesting is that games that can give players the level of challenge they want, win major awards and make lots of money. I would argue that games where players don't get the challenge they want "tend to vanish soon after." What I've seen over the past 18 months is a game that was really enjoyable become less and less so with every modification to the level of challenge/pace of the game.

I don't disagree with any of that. I merely said that "If this game isn't about expansion, what is it about? Should the game be constrained to what the developers want or what the players want?" are not simple questions.

 

[mucksterme]

Respectfully have to disagree:
1) Tourneys were a good source of KP, not anymore
2) If this game isn't about expansion, what is it about? Should the game be constrained to what the developers want or what the players want?

Tourneys still give KP
And I think the game is primarily about city building, not expanding your territory

Should the game be constrained to what the developers want or what the players want?

I never thought I would say something like this
but the way you state the question got me thinking
i believe the answer is mostly the devs
they certainly should try to keep the players happy and interested
but the actual goals of the game are set by them
we can leave whenever we want
they have made a game with a purpose in mind
is it up to us to tell them their purpose is wrong?
wouldn't that be like telling an artist that he uses too much blue paint?
or that a songwriter rhymes too much?
you don't like the song, don't listen
but it is his song

that said. you'll still see me complain about things they do

 

[DeletedUser3507]

Developers miss one important point, land. I like a huge city not a briar patch. So I "over scouted". I hate fighting and this is suppose to be a "Fantasy Builder Game" so why fight.

I have 6 tier 1 lvl 23 factories
5 tier 2 lvl 19 factories
7 tier 3 lvl 19 factories
just so its not necessary to fight. 87k Orcs and 297 provinces to collect from.

I do have 4 armories to help produce Orcs.
Sure I do tourneys to help my score and FS.

But I am really sick of being told "I over scouted"
You play your way, I will play my way.
But drop all this hating on people who do it my way...

I except that scouting times will be slower for me.And with all the extra space I have a large culture surplus of 93k.

I am almost done with wood elves and will start the dreaded next chapter with space for a 24 x 24 university.

I really would like to see someone in the GZ have enough room for the University.

Talk about a nightmare...

At least I can get rid of factories if I had to a person in the GZ has no ability to get the land they require for this guest race...And if they chose to exceed the GZ it would take them 6 months to get the space needed

 

[SoggyShorts]

I really would like to see someone in the GZ have enough room for the University.

I haven't run a sim for chapter 10 yet, but people told me the same thing about orcs, and I have loads of room.
Nearly 20 expansions used for guest race stuff, 1 more expansion coming in orc chapter, and 2 more from world map before I unlock enough to get into chapter 9.

Since costs are very very low if you stay within the GZ, you can get away with 10 goods buildings total, 150% culture, and still have space for guest races.

The downside is you'll never be a top 100 player...

 

[DeletedUser2334]

Tourneys still give KP
And I think the game is primarily about city building, not expanding your territory

So your building your city on a simple 5x5 grid and not worrying about any expansions? To build your city up, you must expand its footprint. Even if you just upgrade the buildings you have, they get bigger as you upgrade and need more space. Why would developers put features (expansions) into the game that aren't realistically achievable? Imagine if in Doom you could see the BFG gun but never use it, if in Starcraft you could only build marines, in Zelda if all you had were the shield and sword. Limiting a player's options, limits their game play enjoyment.

Sure the developers have a creative vision. If that vision does not match the demand for what players want, then who buys the game? I continue to see continued losses of top ranked players who buy diamonds to support development. Maybe these losses are being replaced by new recruits, but a basic business model suggests it takes far more effort to recruit a new customer than it does to maintain a loyal customer.

I think we are all frustrated that this game could be so much better, except for the limited vision of the developers. So yes the time might be here for me to "stop listening to this song" and spend money on a more enjoyable game. I hope that Inno can continue to support the game for those players that do enjoy the current game play.

 

[DeletedUser2334]

The downside is you'll never be a top 100 player...

Soggy, very perceptive. The major disconnect in the game is that if you play the way Inno wants you to play, you will never achieve a high rank. For those players that play for rank or for "achievement points", playing the game in the GZ makes no sense. I argue that a well-balanced game matches the reward structure with your level of achievement. Elvenar is completely unbalanced because achieving the most rewards/points is not how the developers envision you should play and are now penalizing high achievement players for their play style.

 

[Ashrem]

For those players that[...]

I think that's the key. There is no one right way to play, and we need to remember that the developers are catering to a diverse player base. Any given decision they make is going to irritate some of the players most of the time.

 

[DeletedUser3297]

I really would like to see someone in the GZ have enough room for the University.

I will always be in the GZ, starting Orcs in a few days. I have 21 expansions that I am using just for orcs and with another 17 expansions coming to me from the tech tree and from the world map I will have more than enough space for the S & D chapter. I am also able to maintain 50,000 excess culture which is 21,000 more culture than I need for the 170% bonus.

But my city will always be small, a lot smaller than what it should be. But I don't care about score.

 

[DeletedUser3507]

The game is losing its appeal for those that do, and those are the ones paying to let you play for free...

And if enough of us paying leave, the game will most likely end.
Just a point in this discussion.

Which I am starting to think would be a good thing, Inno has destroyed the game I started playing and replaced it with rubbish.

And I am sure a majority of the "Paying customer" feel this way.

 

[DeletedUser6335]

I think perhaps a bit more consideration of options-- adding some choices here and there. Yes, it is the Developers Vision of the game, their game in that sense. Yes, it is the players playing the game, their game in that sense. I know there are reasons things are done certain ways (even if I may not fully know what those reasons are; sometimes someone showing up and *explaining* those reasons would help.
Their game/Our game -and a "never the twain shall meet" attitude won't work - there has to be some give and take, some effort on both parties part. For this to truly happen there needs to be a more open dialogue then- Us: "We want this", Them: "You can't have that, you get this", or even worse-- Us "We want this", Them: /crickets chirping.

I've said it before and it will be said again - It isn't feasible to think any game will ever please 100% of the people 100% of the time and I accept this. What I have a hard time accepting is that there is only ONE vision for this game that matters, be it the Developer Vision OR the Player Vision. Communication would greatly help, cooperation and understanding can go a long way....but for them to truly exist communication (of a two way kind) is essential. We need to keep expressing our thoughts, concerns, ideas, and suggestions in a positive way; no yelling, no throwing fits and screams of "my bat, my ball, I'm going home (rage quitting or "threats" to do so). The Developers need to find a way (and person or persons through which) to respond to us - to let us know the whats, where-fors, and whys (if possible) and not just leave us thinking they don't care what we think or have to say. Then, when we are closer we can find more of us calling it "Our game" instead of the divide/disconnect we seem to be facing of late.

 

[DeletedUser3507]

Agreed, but in the past year of playing, the developers have made no such attempt to reach out to players, and we the players are fed up with this play it as we want you to attitude, The developers should be required to play so that they fully realize what were upset about.

And I will not spend another dime on this game if the tourneys stay in there current form.

I belive its aggravate most of the players all the time.