Spell Fragment and Combining Catalyst Economic Discussion

[Spiny]

As you probably already know, Spell Fragments and Combining Catalysts are now an essential currency in order to upgrade wonders. This can grind the progress of new players to a halt, as well as be a significant expense for all but the most well established cities. I feel like it would be good to have a discussion about some of the minor methods that can be used to bolster our ability to obtain more of these resources.

I'll start things off by mentioning some of the recipes in the Magic Academy. Some players are of the opinion that it is worthless until the Spire unlocks. This is actually not true. (Might not be worth the 25 tiles right away, but not worthless).

Of particular interest to me are the new recipes to spend 6 Combining Catalysts to get 2,500 Spell Fragments, or the one to spend 12 Catalysts to get 5,000 Fragments. This provides ~416.67 Spell Fragments in exchange for one Combining Catalyst. What makes this interesting are some of the other recipes.

Another recipe is the Rainbow Flower Cage for the price of 300 Spell Fragments. Its an okay way to fill out a single awkward tile in your city, but it is also possible to gain 1 Combining Catalyst when selling it after placing it in your city, effectively granting 1 Combining Catalyst for 300 Spell Fragments.

This establishes that a savvy player can use the random Magic Academy recipes to actually gain Combining Catalysts and Spell Fragments instead of just spending them, even before unlocking the Spire.

 

[BrinDarby]

Is it possible to add RRs into this discussion ?

As for CCs, depending on when a player started, will
have the biggest effect. Anyone who got (2) of the last
Event's can get (2) CCs/day + MS set.... then its 3/day.
That alone is 21/week. The further you go back there
have been other Event bldgs that give CCs, then all the
way back to when mult. MS sets were possible. The new
player starting today, is back to the MS set only senario,
until another bldg is offered giving CCs.

7/week ( MS set only ) + whats won/earned in Spire, which
depends heavily on the FS's/player's performance in the Spire.
Casual FSs/players are scroooo'd, as are new players.

Frags , well thats laughable ... we went thru this years ago,
even given MA craftings to dump xcess frags, that not only
diluted the MA pool but also caused a nerf to the Bonus boxes
in the MA and nerf'd basic Spire rewards..... all just to say now
there's a critical shortage of frags. Its always been that ya gotta
get TheSpire opened before your MA becomes usable. Now
Inno has add'd AWs you can't use until then aswell. Newbs aren't
supposed to know this, and certainly don't want to told..... yeah,
I know, you get "this/that" but ya kinda can't use it yet.

CCs/Frags/RRs were Never designed to be associated with AW
upgrades. Your average player prolly had access to 70-80% of
CCs/Frags and 30-50% of the RRs need'd to play Elvenar in the
old system. Above average players/FSs could access 90%/70%
respectfully, of CCs/Frags and RRs. By doubble'n or worse the
need for these items, both AW upgrades and the orig need for
such items were cut in 1/2 or worse.... in the total amount players
win/earn now ( need ).

If you stop crafting in the MA, and use all CCs/Frags for upgrades
to AWs, are in a Silver Spire FS, have the MS set + 1 xtra bldg that
gives CCs (min) , then you're kinda ok, but then there's the whole
RR block. Current costs are bassackwards in terms of CCs vs RRs,
and thats a bigger block than Frags are. Gone are the days of
AWKP chains, all the way to a outright block of everyone on the
Map being unable to upgrade AWs therefore being full on AWKP.

The New player to Elvenar has 1 choice other than $$$$, they
have to play into CH5, have Spire/Tourn open, AND establish
thier city in resources BEFORE they start placing/upgrading AWs.
Even then, RRs will be the bigger block, then Frags, and last CCs.

Are there "creative" ways to get Frags/CCs ..... Yes
Are there "creative" ways to get RRs ..... No

 

[StarLoad]

Which is easier and faster to get 45,000 SF or 15 RR?

 

[Dhurrin]

Is it possible to add RRs into this discussion ?

As for CCs, depending on when a player started, will
have the biggest effect. Anyone who got (2) of the last
Event's can get (2) CCs/day + MS set.... then its 3/day.
That alone is 21/week. The further you go back there
have been other Event bldgs that give CCs, then all the
way back to when mult. MS sets were possible. The new
player starting today, is back to the MS set only senario,
until another bldg is offered giving CCs.

I do not really agree with this part. People could have gotten the buildings from the last 2 events, true, but it ONLY works if someone played the events pretty intensively. For players who play (relatively) casually, logging in only 2-3 x per day that doesn't work.
MS lib set? I have (or rather had, now that they are either parked or deleted) that after a year or more still do not have a complete set. Again, maybe they would have if I were able to log in 5+ x per day, but it means there just is no casual play anymore.

Same btw goes for the Spire and the Tourney; players are kinda forced to play intensively because otherwise you'll be stuck. Which means that a lot of the casual players aren't going to make it and will likely quit.
In fact, I'm not too happy about it for my main city anymore either. A game should be enjoyable. Making it just about mandatory to log in 5x / day, do the Spire, do the Tourney, do the events, just to be able to keep going on, less fun, more stress....And hellllllooooooo? where is the citybuilding part of the game?

 

[BrinDarby]

Same btw goes for the Spire and the Tourney; players are kinda forced to play intensively because otherwise you'll be stuck. Which means that a lot of the casual players aren't going to make it and will likely quit.
In fact, I'm not too happy about it for my main city anymore either. A game should be enjoyable. Making it just about mandatory to log in 5x / day, do the Spire, do the Tourney, do the events, just to be able to keep going on, less fun, more stress....And hellllllooooooo? where is the citybuilding part of the game?

Casual FSs/players are scroooo'd, as are new players.

So I did say, non maniacs are scrooo'd , Now
the citybuilding part has been gone for awhile.....

 

[Glandeh]

Which is easier and faster to get 45,000 SF or 15 RR?

I asume you mean by regular play, not by building and selling from your inventory. If you're in a fellowship that gets 10+ chests in tourney, the RRs will take 1 week. You can convert 1BP to 10RR in the MA (if the recipe comes up) and you get 5 extra for doing 10 chests. Folk here mentioned getting about 16K fragments from a complete spire run, so that would be about 3 weeks (more like 2 weeks if you have one complete Moonstone library set for 525 frags/day). If you're lucky and have the CC to spare, you can craft lots of frags in the MA.

 

[BrinDarby]

I asume you mean by regular play

but what is regular play, if there is such a thing ?
The average FS is not a 10+ chest FS. RRs are won
in chest 4,6,8,9,10. In order to compare all 5, you
have to exclude BPs, which only the 10 chest FS gets.
( to get 15 RRs ) In that case :
a 4 chest FS takes 15 weeks
a 6 chest FS takes 7.5 weeks
a 8 chest FS takes 5 weeks
a 9 chest FS takes 4 weeks
a 10 chest FS takes 3 weeks.

At the same time that full cost I believe is
45k frags , 5 CCs, and 15 RRs..... if that is true
then they basically they have the CCs and RRs
backwards... because 45k frags, 15 CC, and 5 RRs
is the more realistic cost.

45k frags vs 15 RRs is a no-brainer.....
45k frags is easier/faster to aquire than 15 RRs.

 

[StarLoad]

Brin your numbers are incorrect

At the same time that full cost I believe is
45k frags , 5 CCs, and 15 RRs....

it would be 45K SF, 45 CC, and 15 RR.

Also since you all are assuming stuff, I postulate that if this "regular play" is not a 10 chest FS then you can't assume that it is a "gold spire" and therefore the amount of SF gained would be even less than the average. Also as @Glandeh pointed out if you are in a 10 Chest FS then 1 week is all that is needed to gain the RR. this is not in question. But there are more 10 Chest Fs's out there than there are Gold Spire FS's, and even Silver Spire ones. Getting a smaller and even medium sized FS to "push" for 10 chests is way easier than getting the same FS to go for Gold Spire.

This all puts all the focus on either the tourney or the spire to acquire the resources to upgrade an AW. I am pretty sure that an individual player that wants to upgrade an AW will be able to do more in a 4 week span in the tourney than in the spire, and of course this negates any crafting in the MA that would use SF or CC at the same time.

I know some feel that the RR are the hardest to gain but a player in the tourney that uses Military Boosters every week or two also gets RR when they are used up and sold now. So factoring that in reduces the time-frame to acquire the 15 RR needed and a 6 chest FS would likely only take 4 weeks to earn the 15 RR. However during that same 4 week span how many SF will be earned.

I track my SF per level and have reported them on Discord and over the last 4 weeks Level 1 of the spire has been from a low of 1,000 to a high of 7,250 (1000, 6750, 1000, 7250, 2750) and Level 2 from 2,500 to 8,250 ( 2500, 8250, 5250, 6250, 3500).

Since my Level 1 average is 3,750 and my Level 2 average is 5,150 you can see that Bronze spire would take 12 weeks to gain the 45K sf and 5 weeks if I was Silver spire.

No matter how you slice it the SF will take longer to gain without resorting to other means to gain them and doing no crafting in the MA or Cauldron during that time. Yes this is all hypothetical and just based on 1 persons view but it is an actual representation of regular play.

 

[Dhurrin]

@StarLoad
The problem with the RRs is that you need them for AWs every time you fill the ring, in increasing numbers.
Lvl 1 (so just building an AW) requires 5 RRs
Lvl 6 requires 10 RRs
Lvl 11 requires 15 RRs
Lvl 16 requires 20 RRs
Lvl 21 requires 25 RRs
Lvl 26 requires 30 RRs
Lvl 31 requires 35 RRs
So to get any single AW to lvl 31 or above requires 140 RRs.
Anyone who is in a FS that does 12 chests gets 7 RRs a week; and thus would need 20 weeks worth of tourneys for that, if you don't use them for quests like úpgrade a building' and have no eventbuildings you want to upgrade.
The cost in spellfrags and CCs is astronomical.

Of course, most players won't be upping one AW all the way to lvl 35 and ignoring all other AWs, but it just goes to show how many RRs one needs. Building 2 (new) AWs to lvl 11 would need 60 RRs / 7 would mean about 9 weeks that way.
But for anyone who is not in a FS that gets 12 chests every week it will take a LOT longer.

 

[StarLoad]

@Dhurrin, Nice but that was not the point under discussed, to go from 6 to 11 will cost you 45K in SF, 45 CC, and 15 Rr. Nobody is talking about level 35 so let's not muddy the waters with facts that are not relevant.

Getting the 15RR is faster and more efficient than the SF and for some the CC too. Also the first 2 AW do not cost 5 RR to place, but the real cost is from level 1 to 11 is 66,000 SF, 66 SF, and 25 or 30 RR.

Even my smallest city has more than enough RR but nowhere near enough SF and maybe just enough CC

 

[Dhurrin]

@Dhurrin, Nice but that was not the point under discussed, to go from 6 to 11 will cost you 45K in SF, 45 CC, and 15 Rr. Nobody is talking about level 35 so let's not muddy the waters with facts that are not relevant.

Getting the 15RR is faster and more efficient than the SF and for some the CC too. Also the first 2 AW do not cost 5 RR to place, but the real cost is from level 1 to 11 is 66,000 SF, 66 SF, and 25 or 30 RR.

Even my smallest city has more than enough RR but nowhere near enough SF and maybe just enough CC

It is not irrelevant at all, though it might be to you personally.
Look at those numbers and you will find that even larger cities will have a hard time getting enough RRs and there aren't nearly as many ways of getting those as there are ways of getting spellfrags and CCs. YOUR smallest city may have enough RRs for now, we will see how long they last.

Once the tech is unlocked one could basically start cooking CCs in the MA to the exclusion of anyting else. Anyone who logs in regularly can gain a MS lib set from the MA. And the new offers of CCs for spellfrags pop up at times, as well as buildings from events that can be disenchanted, together with other things. So RRs are much harder to get. It only is easier if one is in a FS that earns 10+ chests, and not everyone is.

I can say that all cities I still have have more than enough CCs and several have enough spellfrags for now, but don't have anywhere near enough RRS. . Doesn't mean that isn't an issue for other players. The fact you have enough RRs doesn't make it a universal truth.

 

[StarLoad]

The fact you have enough RRs doesn't make it a universal truth.

Nor does the fact that you dont, that is the point isn't it.

Our perspective individually versus the perspective of the sum of players in the game.

The overwhelming sentiment on Discord is that the SF is the main issue for small to medium cities and even for some Endgame players that already defragged "stuff" to level the Ch 21 Wonders.

As was already said there are only 2 buildings/sets that give SF and 1 is an end-game Wonder and the other is the Moonstone Library and that only gives a puny amount, in relation to what is needed. That leave only the Spire to gain SF (without defragging, which IMO is a poor strategy) and doing the spire is a crapshoot as to what you will get.

 

[Dhurrin]

Read this post (see link) and you will notice that is part of what I already mentioned in my evaluation. You're preaching to the choir

Feedback - Quick and Dirty Summary of Ancient Wonder Changes

Well you are mixing two different issues, 1 is a game-wide issue and the other is a specific game condition. But first you should understand what "structural scarcity" really is. The simple definition is that when "supply and demand are misaligned for some buyers but not for all." "Unequal...

us.forum.elvenar.com

 

[StarLoad]

As of right now there are on Arendyll

26 FS at Gold
62 FS at Silver
139 FS at Bronze
out of 675 on the spire

So its clear that the majority are not getting the benefit of SF from the spire. Which makes the deficit on SF even more of an issue.

Read this and you will notice that is part of what I already mentioned. You're preaching to the choir

No, not preaching, any more than Brin has done about RR's, just stating my opinion about the SF problem.

 

[Dhurrin]

No, not preaching, any more than Brin has done about RR's, just stating my opinion about the SF problem.

It's a saying, not to be taken literally. And it IS a problem for sure

 

[StarLoad]

To answer the OP question, as noted the Spire is the most purposeful way to collect SF without wasting resources in defragging.

 

[Spiny]

What I was hoping to focus on, is sharing ways to improve upon our production of Spell Fragments and Combining Catalysts. Particularly the more novel ideas that may have gone largely un-noticed by the playerbase.

Here's another tip that might provide a slight boost to your economic situation: With each event Elvenar puts out, they also send out a newsletter via email to the players who check the box in the settings labelled "Receive e-mails about game events, features and offers as well as news about our other games". This email contains a link that provides about 100 of the current event's currency; which could be used to get prizes. I don't know precisely what those prizes would be, but it is a certainty that some of those prizes can be converted into more Spell Fragments should you have no better use of them.

So if the email you used to sign up for Elvenar is not your primary email, it would be wise to check it now and then, and check that box if you haven't already done so.

Another tip is that the mobile version of the game offers a free daily gift that is unavailable to players who only play the game on PC. If you have a phone or a willingness to get involved in emulators, the gift can sometimes include a small amount of diamonds or a 1x2 unicorn culture building that can be turned into a Comining Catalyst or defragged for Spell Fragments.

 

[Pheryll]

Of particular interest to me are the new recipes to spend 6 Combining Catalysts to get 2,500 Spell Fragments, or the one to spend 12 Catalysts to get 5,000 Fragments. This provides ~416.67 Spell Fragments in exchange for one Combining Catalyst. What makes this interesting are some of the other recipes.

Another recipe is the Rainbow Flower Cage for the price of 300 Spell Fragments. Its an okay way to fill out a single awkward tile in your city, but it is also possible to gain 1 Combining Catalyst when selling it after placing it in your city, effectively granting 1 Combining Catalyst for 300 Spell Fragments.

If you do out the math, any event building 20 squares or less is better to place and sell for CCs (and then use the crafting recipes for SF) than to disenchant and get the SF directly.

 

[BrinDarby]

it would be 45K SF, 45 CC, and 15 RR.

thanks for correcting me, I'd love to see the breakout
per level, thats @least more inline with reality, kinda... lol

Both me and @Dhurrin are not including RRs from BPs.
BPs are need'd elsewhere. the way you describe it, I'd
never get any BPs because every week I'd be converting
them to RRs. Thus 10chests is 5 RRs and as Dhurrin said
12chests is 7 RRs. (per week)

Sorry @Spiny , I'll try to limit stuff here more to your orig
post, not the title of that post.

 

[BrinDarby]

@StarLoad ,
Do you by any chance have the breakout
even of 1 world for Tourn FS performance ?
like how many are 10chests or more Vs how
many are below that .