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    Your Elvenar Team

Spells Are USELESS

DeletedUser627

Guest
Katwijk is predicting that we'll be able to "win" Relics via the "Provincial Tournament". (I'm not sure if this is his term or Inno's) He's predicting that we'll be competing against each other for additional Relics. Sometimes his speculations are correct.

I've been expressing lots of concern about this possibility. Now that everyone is looking at the Magic Academy, the following is why I'm trying to get players interested in this now, before it's a done deal.

If declinable quests are on their way out; Spells are likely to be the way the game is going. Since Supplies via Workshops are crucial for the day-to-day production of cities - we're all going to need more supplies than we produce when it's time to build / upgrade, and Spells will likely be the way we're "supposed" to get them. We'll need additional Relics whether we like it or not. We're going to need Relics / Spells for any number of future reasons.​

If the way to "win" Relics is via competing against each other in Tournaments...some players will easily get Relics, and others will rarely get them. This is why we DONT want the proposed "joint fighting" to be competitive - it needs to be goal-related. If two partners win a Province, get the Relics - this is great. What's NOT great is two partners competing against other partnerships and the best partnerships get Relics and the "losers" get less.

Fewer Relics is likely going to mean slower progress. The fact that the Academy is a non-deletable building is a good sign that it's going to become a key element.

If you plan to continue playing Elvenar (*chuckling* yes, that's humorous for some of us) and you want to continue cooperative play (without scenarios where your success requires another player's failure) - please take this opportunity to voice your opinions here or on the Beta Forum. Usually we wait until AFTER a development we don't like - but this time it would be nice if we speak up beforehand. It may be a moot point, but it can't hurt. Moderators have said that Elvenar will not become PvP...but we're already competing for Rune Shards.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
bobbipiazza said:
Moderators have said that Elvenar will not become PvP...but we're already competing for Rune Shards.
Click to expand...

They are looking at PvP only from the definition of a War/PvP driven game like, oh... Tribal Wars, Tribal Wars 2, Grepolis, Forge Of Empires, The West... where you have to attack your neighbors, kill their troops, destroy their cities and steal all of ther resources. They are neglecting to realize the style of Tournament Kat continuously alludes to IS a form of PvP. In almost every War/PvP/Mixed PvP and PvE game out there, these tournaments exist, As a side element. That ONLY the biggest, strongest, highest coining, top ranked players even bother with. Because they are the ONLY ones who gain any reward or benefit from it. The big get bigger, the littles get littler and reside as nothing more than farms.

I HIGHLY DISLIKE this concept here. I started this game to get AWAY from PvP and this type of competitive, rather than cooperative play. Builder (not WAR) games are meant to be more about plotting your city, strategizing your layouts and growth, with some challenges from that and the PvE/NPC battle elements in most of them. If I want PvP and intense competition, I'll go kill everything and everyone around me in one of my PvP war games or pure PvP games. I chose to play this game because Inno advertised it as a "peaceful" game of building your dream city. Not this, not what it has become and seems to be rolling downhill towards becoming even more.

Inno... if you want this to be another Greppo, or TW2, or FoE or the like... scrap the game, give your long time players an incentive to join and play when you rename it "Humans Vs. Elves. Vs. Everything Else" and call it what it is. A WAR strategy game. o_O
 

DeletedUser1349

Guest
Please do not include The West along with the rest. Our towns in the West can never be attacked. We have community fort battles, but no big deal if a fort is lost; they just change ownership. The battles never occur in our towns. Yes there is dueling, but that is a minor irritant. The most you lose in both dueling & fort battles is your health & you might die, which you sleep to revive yourself. If you die in a duel you get three days duel protection where you cannot be dueled again. Rare is it to be knocked out in a duel anyway. You usually only lose a bit of heath.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Nevarth said:
Please do not include The West along with the rest. Our towns in the West can never be attacked. We have community fort battles, but no big deal if a fort is lost; they just change ownership. The battles never occur in our towns. Yes there is dueling, but that is a minor irritant. The most you lose in both dueling & fort battles is your health & you might die, which you sleep to revive yourself. If you die in a duel you get three days duel protection where you cannot be dueled again. Rare is it to be knocked out in a duel anyway. You usually only lose a bit of heath.
Click to expand...
I included it in the comparison, because almost every review online and in gaming magazines place it in the PvP/war strategy/strategic management genre(s). Basically, a MMORPG/MMORTS, similar to other war/battle/strategy games, with a Western USA theme. It is often compared to or called "similar to" Evony, TW2, FoE and others in the same genre.
First Example
Second Exapmle

Sorry if I offended you @Nevarth, but I never played The West because it got such poor reviews from players, reviewers and game industry professionals. :oops:o_O
 

DeletedUser594

Guest
The way they've set the game up I don't think $ players get much advantage. The AW's provide modest benefit at high level. There are no special weapons available. They could toss money at fights by revitalizing troops which would provide momentary help at a high price- even then they can't just auto fight and throw numbers at the fight till they win bcs the AI is abysmal (and I hope it remains so- I like that it's a battle of skill). I would be curious to see how they level the field for longer term vs newer players. Maybe arenas where maximums in troop size,strength and type are capped.
I hear your concerns on it being directly competetive, and I would like to see some sort of activity added that allows those who don't like fighting or competing added so that those players have an opportunity to reap rewards as well but I have no idea what that would look like. I don't mind competing in a PvE tourney- I'm just glad to get away from PvP stuff- I checked back into FoE for a minute and I was plundered by 6 different people-now that I find annoying.
 

DeletedUser627

Guest
varron said:
The way they've set the game up I don't think $ players get much advantage. ...
I hear your concerns on it being directly competetive, and I would like to see some sort of activity added that allows those who don't like fighting or competing added so that those players have an opportunity to reap rewards as well but I have no idea what that would look like. I don't mind competing in a PvE tourney- I'm just glad to get away from PvP stuff- I checked back into FoE for a minute and I was plundered by 6 different people-now that I find annoying.
Click to expand...

The $ advantage is pretty directly related to the scoring system: premium buildings give higher population and culture, which makes for higher scores. Right now, Fertility Goddesses can make a dramatic difference in score.

Fighting isn't bad - sometimes I like it - it's just that I don't want to compete against other players.
 

DeletedUser61

Guest
I think the Provincial Tournaments will be more akin to a Potluck Social at the park. Sure there's a softball game, but it's a workup game where three generations play on both teams. Or you can go collect periwinkles in the creek.

The important consideration is that you're never "done" with picnics, nor goofing around on the map. You can do it all over again the next week (or the next month) with pretty much the same results.

Player vs Player covers a wide range of activities. At the extremes we could have
  • Gladiator Death Matches
  • Protecting your rank by doing a bit better than your rivals
  • No need at all for a Barracks (negotiate everything)
Where I'm hoping we'll end up is with a good excuse for revisiting sectors on the world map, and I'd be happy with
  • scavenger hunts
  • finding rare mushrooms
  • St. George and the Dragon
  • Honoring the woodland deities
  • Whatever
Everybody who participates would incur the basic benefit of additional relics or runes, or whatever, while the folks who put the most effort into the exercise, that particular week, will ALSO place well in the tournament, and they'll get some additional benefits.
 

DeletedUser594

Guest
bobbipiazza said:
The $ advantage is pretty directly related to the scoring system: premium buildings give higher population and culture, which makes for higher scores..
Click to expand...
Yes of course- I meant in relation to fighting in particular. In a lot of PvP games you have access to certain objects, buildings, upgrades, weapons etc...that can give you an advantage over a non $ player. Even if none of those are available you can pay to re-up troops health and send them out again. In this game if you don't have the skill to take fight the AI is not gonna help you gee through if you just keep re-upping with diamonds. It one of the things I really like about this game. Once you have multiple troops on both sides you really need to manual fight or it's a black hole your troops go down.
 

DeletedUser627

Guest
Katwijk said:
I think the Provincial Tournaments will be more akin to .......
  • Protecting your rank by doing a bit better than your rivals
  • .....
Everybody who participates would incur the basic benefit of additional relics or runes, or whatever, while the folks who put the most effort into the exercise, that particular week, will ALSO place well in the tournament, and they'll get some additional benefits.
Click to expand...

It would be extreme for Elvenar to move from a peaceful builder game to one where you have to defeat other players in order to protect your rank. For the most part, they'd have to start from scratch in terms of player base.

Your contribution to the Space Trade Route discussion included much better solutions - creative ideas that aren't just a re-has of other games.
 

DeletedUser594

Guest
If two partners win a Province, get the Relics - this is great. What's NOT great is two partners competing against other partnerships and the best partnerships get Relics and the "losers" get less.
Click to expand...

I doubt that it works that way. Probably it will be you and your partner doing your thing and you will get ranked as a team. I imagine you will be winning relics as you go and the competition part comes into play when ranking. Top spots will get more prize material. That's how I imagine they will go. Big grain of salt with that.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
explode smaller.jpg
 

Deleted User - 107391

Guest
Katwijk said:
IWhere I'm hoping we'll end up is with a good excuse for revisiting sectors on the world map, and I'd be happy with
  • scavenger hunts
  • finding rare mushrooms
  • St. George and the Dragon
  • Honoring the woodland deities
  • Whatever
Everybody who participates would incur the basic benefit of additional relics or runes, or whatever, while the folks who put the most effort into the exercise, that particular week, will ALSO place well in the tournament, and they'll get some additional benefits.
Click to expand...
Now this I could appreciate. I'd like them to do more with what already exists. I'd like similar things within your city.
 

DeletedUser68

Guest
Bobbykitty said:
In order to upgrade your magic academy past level 2, you must use diamonds
Click to expand...
hennypennySmall-thumb.jpg


Please refrain from alarmist posts regarding the details of items that have just barely been released in Beta.

Very much to the point, we do want to encourage folks to participate in the Beta if they ARE interested in what might be coming over the hill, we could use more good testers, but there's no need to disturb folks who are not interested in the details of the Beta environment.
 
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DeletedUser627

Guest
Oh dear...we're not supposed to know that once we buy an Academy, it will cost to update?

I think that plenty of players are interested to know what to expect - but far fewer have the patience required to play through the endless bugs of Beta.

Are there any confidentiality requirements posted for Beta users?
 
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