Suggestion for dealing with non-players.

[DeletedUser23977]

I am in a wasteland surrounded by non-players in Arendyll. I'm on Level 4 going on 5 and although I offer help to every single player surrounding me every day, my return helps are less than 5 per week. My suggestion is every time I, or other players offer help in those cities where no help is returned and no progress made- that city earns vulnerability points. Once that city has "X" number of vulnerability points, it becomes eligible to be commandeered and all items in that city can be pilfered. Some of those dead cities have some pretty sweet stuff that I could place in mine and/or disenchant. Only actual neighbors who have offered help in a dead city should be eligible to commandeer that city.

 

[Ashrem]

Vehemently opposed.

Aside from a significant code addition, that takes the game in a completely different direction. It means people can never take a break of any kind without risking coming home to a looted husk.

Your problems would be solved by the long-promised improvements to the city movement and removal of abandoned cities.

 

[DeletedUser23977]

Vehemently opposed.

Aside from a significant code addition, that takes the game in a completely different direction. It means people can never take a break of any kind without risking coming home to a looted husk.

Your problems would be solved by the long-promised improvements to the city movement and removal of abandoned cities.

I am only speaking of the obviously abandoned cities. I don't disagree that the promised improvements would be great if they ever materialize. However, wouldn't people taking a break incur the risk of coming back to a city completely gone with that solution? I don't think my suggestion takes the game in a totally different direction. I think it provides an opportunity to level the playing field for growing my city. We acquire new items through tournaments, adventures, etc. This would just be one more way. Thanks for sharing your thoughts though.

 

[Ashrem]

I am only speaking of the obviously abandoned cities. I don't disagree that the promised improvements would be great if they ever materialize. However, wouldn't people taking a break incur the risk of coming back to a city completely gone with that solution?.

It will depend on the solution. If it really is movement vs deletion then there is no risk. If all they do is move it to the outside of the map to consolidate active cities, they can still function in a Fellowship when they return after being away a few months. If I come back after a four month break, I'd be pretty irritated if anyone who felt like it had taken anything I accumulated and picked the city's bones clean. This isn't a competitive game for anyone who doesn't care about rank numbers. Your solution turns it into a competitive game for everyone, with a risk of losing things other than a score.

 

[DeletedUser23977]

Putting a city in a province and essentially abandoning it, as well as joining a fellowship and then having no participation whatsoever for 4 months results in losses for the fellows, the fellowship as a whole, as well as any neighbors. Sometimes those losses are ranking points but also can mean items and progress along the way aren't gained that would benefit the other players. And quite frankly, it's pretty irritating to those of us in the game trying to make any progress. Most fellowships have expectations for regular play for it's members. Some are pretty strict as far as helps and participation in tournaments and adventures. So a player who is absent for 4 months risks losing membership and all the related benefits if they don't do anything at all to show continued interest and commitment. I find that most players who want to continue the game, but need a break, especially an extended one, at least check in periodically to set and reset their productions and even do visits. That's enough in my opinion to keep them in the game, and takes but a few minutes. I think a main premise of this game is players working together and contributing for the benefit of each other. So extended non-players, non-contributors need to have some accountability, and those still in the game making an effort and contributing need to have a fair way to continue making progress when neighbors/fellows go missing for months at a time. If this were a minor problem involving a few non-players, I'd probably not say or suggest anything. But in Arendyll particularly, the problem is pervasive. I started playing in 2 additional worlds months after starting Arendyll and put in the same effort of time. My progress in those other worlds has already surpassed Arendyll, not to mention the level of continued interest and enjoyment in the game. The difference is active, participating neighbors and fellows.

 

[T6583]

I'm extremely against this for several reasons. Some players have to temporairly leave the game due to health or other personal issues. That break can be only a few weeks or it may last several months. I have known multiple players who left the game completely for several months (one player that comes to mind is an FS member of mine who had a stroke that took her out for a few months. She was removed after two weeks from the FS and it was only months after the fact that we found out what happened when she reached out to us) and then returned to it and rejoined the FS if they had an opening. Some of them have spent money getting their cities to where they are and or have spent considerable effort earning certain items as prizes. I personally would be pissed if I had to step away from the game for a bit and then came back to find my city pillaged after all of the time, effort, and money that was put into it for someone to leech off all of my hard work when I might have had to leave for something beyond my control. I do not want to play that kind of game nor do I wish to see this game go that route. Inno can easily solve the problem by relocating cities that are inactive after x number of weeks to another part of the world and consoladate active cities together. That way if a city then does reactivate after x number of weeks it can then be relocated to be near more active cities. For the record my largest city is in an active area on the K world, I have over 440 providences scouted and cleared, visit all cities daily, and might have 10 people out of a few hundred cities that visit me back even though most of them are active which I can tell from the trader (I very rarely trade outside of my FS to begin with. Only when I need to bring in some outside goods). That's why being in a good FS is benefitial all around for both trading and visits as they can really help a city grow.

 

[samidodamage]

I agree with @Ashrem & @T6583 . There is no need to introduce a PvP element to a game that attracts many players because of the absence of those features. I've seen advanced players take long (one I think took off a year due to medical issues) breaks. This game has many older/retired players. Some of them spend lots of real money on the game. Things happen. Absolutely unfair for them to come back to their cities and have their stuff gone.
The problem you are having is a result of the way the company defines and handles inactive accounts. It's a problem in all worlds (maybe not the newest one, not sure). Players check the box to get moved to a more active neighborhood and end up in a neighborhood that's actually less active than where they were.
Many suggestions have been made re: city movement on the map that could address the issue of inactive neighbors; we're just waiting on them to be implemented.
As far as FS members who are inactive without notice? Make rules defining minimum activity levels for members. Write in expectations when real life interferes (ex: must message the Mages if going to be away from the game for xxx period of time) Track that activity (if you don't track it, it gets ignored). Use 'expel' button as appropriate for less than minimum activity. Presto: no more inactive FS members.

 

[Kataphractos]

So hang on. You want to increase the number of visits you're getting. And the idea is basically to impose demerits on players with a "visits received to visits made" ratio bigger than 1:1. But then those demerits reset to zero whenever they visit a single neighbor, and also whenever they collect so much as a single gold coin.

Even leaving aside the ethics question of whether players deserve to get looted for the crime of having a medical emergency, and the business question of whether Elvenar should just be "fantasy Forge of Empires"...I don't understand how this would accomplish your goal: to increase the number of visits you're getting. I can fulfill your requirements simply by building the ol' "two houses and a workshop on a dirt road", logging in every five weeks, and never bothering with neighbor help at all. What am I missing here?

 

[shimmerfly]

@Itsmedoodah
I understand being in a barren area. I was stuck for the first 3 months of the game with only one visiting neighbor.
BUT! No I wouldn't like working for years building my city to find it gone if I couldn't play for an extended period of time. Looks like you've been out-voted but keep the ideas coming.

 

[DeletedUser16929]

I am in a wasteland surrounded by non-players in Arendyll. I'm on Level 4 going on 5 and although I offer help to every single player surrounding me every day, my return helps are less than 5 per week. My suggestion is every time I, or other players offer help in those cities where no help is returned and no progress made- that city earns vulnerability points. Once that city has "X" number of vulnerability points, it becomes eligible to be commandeered and all items in that city can be pilfered. Some of those dead cities have some pretty sweet stuff that I could place in mine and/or disenchant. Only actual neighbors who have offered help in a dead city should be eligible to commandeer that city.

i do not see this as one of your options...
... one option is to contact support with your situation and ask they move you to a better location
another option is to join a fellowship and you should get more neighbourly help
good luck

 

[DeletedUser2870]

opposed.
The charm of elvenar, or at least one of the charms, is the LACK of PvP.
I understand the frustration, I've been stuck for months in wastelands that showed nothing but goldmines on about 60% of the map, and the cities that were there never responded.
However, first of all, the giving and receiving of NH is an extra, but not the basis of the game.
Secondly, if you join an active FS you can get a very decent amount of NH that way, making the ones on the map just a bonus
Thirdly, there already is a fix, Inno is just extremely slow or lax in the moving active cities close to the center and getting rid of inactive cities.

In that last aspect I'd really like to see some changes, because the way it is implemented leaves something to be desired. But that hardly is a reason to introduce a PvP element here. Of course, I'd be biased against that for obvious reasons; I'm one of the players who has taken several months-long breaks from the game. I'd be really pissed if when I decided to come back find all my resources gone.

 

[Captain Asgard]

-1.

People have lives and poo happens, so you want to punish them for placing their real lives ahead of a collection of pixels?

Priorities, man.

 

[DeletedUser23977]

I'm really not trying to be a heartless vulture, just waiting to pounce on some players world and take all their hard earned stuff because they had some legitimate life circumstance that temporarily took them out of the game. Geez. I thought I was being clear that I was referring to dead cities. Those cities that were abandoned by people who apparently joined the game and then for whatever reason, decided it was not for them, and they are never coming back. But, read into my suggestion what you will. From what I have read, the developers are looking to at least move those inactive cities into an even deeper wasteland. That will most likely remove them from a fellowship if they joined one and haven't been dismissed by the fellowship. My guess is, the time they be able to remain segregated is going to be limited and eventually, they will be removed from the system completely. That's just a guess. My suggestion pertains specifically to those cities. I would venture to say there are many players, including people here opposed to my suggestion, who would take advantage of an opportunity to win some of the items in those dead cities if they were made available. As for people who play, but need a break for whatever reason, and fully intend to return to the game - I have absolutely no problem with that, other than it should be time limited. This game was not designed to be like Classic Solitaire or Mah Jong where it makes no difference how often you check in and actively play. Suggesting that it should have no parameters is suggesting a completely different game. Anyway, what the time limit is for no activity would be up to the developers. I visit other players taking breaks who took the time to name their city "On a break until Dec. 9th" another player named his city "See FS overview" where he took time to explain that he is a part-time player and will gladly return player help when he is available for play. Again - no problem or gripes from me and I continue to offer help in those cities. Other players communicate directly to the fellowship that they will be taking a break, but intend to return. Perhaps a vacation mode that a player or arch mage or someone can set to indicate the player intends to return would prevent cities being removed? If there's no communication, then the developers decision to move those inactive to ends of the world, before removing them completely is essentially placing that city in a vacation mode. So, to be honest, I don't believe there is any real danger that my suggestion will be implemented. It's a suggestion. an idea that if nothing else might spark some further discussion and more ideas. I don't care really if anyone likes it or not.

 

[Ashrem]

This game was not designed to be like Classic Solitaire or Mah Jong where it makes no difference how often you check in and actively play

The game is different than it was a few years ago, with a lot more things dependent on fellowships and neighbours, but there are still a lot of solo players, so how the game is designed means different things to different people. One of my neighbours has played solo since before I started. Although she was in a fellowship with me for a couple of months, she just didn't enjoy having other people dependent on her activity level, nor having to live up to other people's expectations. Now she's in a fellowship by herself, and the name of it is something about being solo and not wanting to be bothered by other people. So for her, it really is a solitary game, and she's happy with it.

They do remove cities which don't hit certain criteria. the problem is, those criteria are not as expansive as many players would like. From the developers' perspective, I imagine they have to walk a pretty fine line between satisfying most players and having someone get angry because their city was trashed, and bad-mouthing them all over the internet. If they'd started out that way it would be one thing, but they didn't. Changing the rules part way through is never easy. Also, a game which is available around the world has to worry about things like restrictive laws in countries where maybe you have no right to take away something that appears durable and has been paid for. So removing anything from an account that has bought diamonds gets a little trickier. So that's the biggest weakness in the current system. If an account ever bought diamonds, then it is protected. Since a lot of players buy at least one pack of diamonds in the first week in order to get the free builder upgrade offer, that leaves a ton of small cities that are protected under the current criteria for deletion.

That's why a lot of players lobby for movement over deletion. It's fully reversible without risk of loss. One of my own suggestions was a shadow server for each real server, where the data for inactive cities are shifted to an identical world that is empty. As soon as the user returns and logs in, their city is moved back to the active world, in a new spot. It would make the map a lot more dynamic, with people coming and going all the time. As would another suggestion, which was to inset a new group of rows every week or month in an "X" shape across the middle of the server, with anyone who logged in that period moving inward, while everyone who hadn't moves outward. It means the map would be constantly changing, and your position on the board would become one more aspect of your score, because the most active and engaged players would be clustered in the centre, but as soon as you took a week or two off, you'd get bumped out and have to work your way back into the middle.

 

[DeletedUser23977]

See. I think that is all very reasonable. Those ideas would absolutely address the problem while preserving the integrity of the game and protecting those who are not as active but have invested time and/or money. I seem to have had the misfortune to have joined and started play in a world (Arendyll), or placed in a part of the world that is broken. I have no way, to improve my circumstance and that is frustrating beyond words. I have joined 2 other worlds where this specific problem does not exist, or at least does not have the same impact on my game. In Arendyll, the apparent weight of having active neighbors, traders, and fellows is such, that the absence of them prevents growth. To me, it is broken when days, weeks and months in a row, you open the trader hoping to gain some of what you need and can't adequately produce yourself, to find ZERO trades available, or only trades that are so far beyond your reach that it doesn't even make sense. Then to place your meager goods in the trader to have them sit there endlessly. It is broken when you spend crazy amounts of time to visit countless cities to offer help and go days, weeks, months, with ZERO return help, or at most 2 return helps. Help that is necessary to boost what you do have, to make it function well enough to give you necessary resources to make any progress. If you can't make any progress, then what is the point? Just endless set, collect, reset? My suggestion was made not only out of frustration, but a real desire to find some way to continue with some enjoyment and not become one more dead city statistic to add to the mix in Arendyll. I am not opposed to spending real money in order to make gains and support the developers, and have done so in those other worlds. And that has provided reasonable returns on my investment. I am concerned that doing that in Arendyll would be a waste of money. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and information. It at least gives a glimmer of hope.

 

[Ashrem]

Arendyll would, indeed, be the most difficult. It is the oldest server, so pretty much guaranteed as the largest number of abandoned accounts, even though it also has most of the most advanced cities. Harandor, as the youngest world, might be the place to stake out your greatest effort (As Felyndral was when I joined)

When I started on Felyndral, there were about 30,000 cities. Now there are 47,000, of which 15,000 have a score below 1,000

 

[DeletedUser23977]

Yes, Felandryl is one of the other worlds I play in. It is still challenging, but fun - and do-able. I also play in Harandar with a very active fellowship that has clearly defined goals and expectations. That's like playing an entirely different game. I won't abandon my game in Arendyll, but won't spend as much time there, At least not until some improvements are made. And I'll certainly save my real dollars. I'm not a developer, a legal expert, or even a gamer by many standards. Just a novice player trying to enjoy a game I've already invested lots and lots of time and effort in. I appreciate having gained a bit more clarity. For those who read my suggestion and took offense, or thought I had some ill intent toward their game - that was never the intent.

 

[samidodamage]

disagree that there is no level of PvP

You will need the help of your neighbors

PvP stands for player versus player. This game is not a competition between players (unless a player chooses to compete for rank), it is a cooperative game; player helping player. When you visited and 'helped' your neighbor you received coins. Yes, if you visited them within 23hrs of them visiting you, you'd get a bonus in supplies. If they visited you 24 hrs ago, you'll still only get coins. But if they never visit you, you still get coins when you visit them.
I think part of your frustration will go away as you grow. When you get to where you have 200+ neighbors, you'll understand why lots of folks don't visit neighbors regularly. The other thing that will happen as you grow>coins and supplies will be so plentiful you'll be looking for places to spend them!
The other thing to think about with culture bonus: how many culture bldgs that are 2x2 in size (the smallest size that can be 'helped') or larger do you have? Unless it's 25 or more, joining a FS that requires daily visiting would get all your bldgs polished if your neighbors never visit you. It also increases the chance you'll be able to visit more within that 23hr window that have helped you. That's where I'd start if I were in your position. Find a FS that requires daily visits. Then your visits from map neighbors becomes gravy.

 

[DeletedUser2870]

I understand what you're saying, but disagree that there is no level of PvP, or that giving/receiving help is not a basis for the game. The PvP may not be as blatant as my suggestion, but it's in there. Participating in the adventures is one. The game itself runs a banner across the bottom of my page every time I log in that changes, but one which says " Helpful hint: You will need the help of your neighbors to gain the 160% culture boost......" So I'm not sure how that is not a basis of the game.

Not helping is not adversely affecting other players. Players cannot attack each other which is part of the charm of this game.
Yes, you will need some help to get the culturebonus above a certain percentage, but again, that's helpful, but not a necessity. I've played (and still do) with changing culturebonuses and sometimes am only just over the 100% and at other times have pretty much a standard of 160% thanks to NH from just my FS.
Participating in adventures is part of COOPERATING which is not the same as PvP. As @samidodamage states, pretty much the only thing one can compete on is rank, and that has no effect on the game itself. The only other thing is ranking points in FA events and tourneys, but once again, nothing you do will affect any other player.
The coins and supplies are nice, but are mainly needed at the first few chapters. After that you'll find out there really aren't that many things to spend them on.
And as noted : wait till you have over 200 (or in my case over 300) discovered cities on your map. I don't visit all of them very often as I have no need for the coins and most of them can't return visits anyway, so the supplies (which I hardly ever need either) are not even an option.

I'm afraid you'll have to have a bit of patience. Best thing to do is to find an active FS. The NH you receive from them should cover most of your needs and the few active neighbours will help tip the balance.

 

[KarlD]

I totally oppose the idea of looting supposedly abandoned cities. I don't see any good reason to delete or destroy an idle city. The help system is set up to give coins and supplies and help chests as incentive for one to give help. Getting help back is an added bonus. Having more active neighbors giving help in return would certainly be nice, but forcing them to give help under threat of losing their city is a bit extreme.