Summer Event: March of the Herds

[DeletedUser8779]

This is the first major event I've seen and it's been - I guess 'thought-provoking' is as good a way as any to describe it.

After watching the Q&A and noting (during the discussion regarding Expansions) that the devs intentionally plan to retard progress in order to give folks with less able equipment the ability to play, my first thought was "quantity, not quality." And that's been the gist of a bunch of the flaming associated with this event. The Inno folks appear to have thrown the 'quality players' under the bus (and, oddly enough, just plain forgot about the folks in their two newest worlds.)

I've been fortunate to be in a position (just beginning Ch.3) where the questline coincides with my growth plans. It hasn't been a disaster. Yet.

*looks over at those crossed fingers*

As both a noob and one with a garbage 'puter, I'm sort of the poster child for what they've expressed as their intent.

I can see the end of my participation in the March. It'll be around the 60th quest, give or take a quest or two. I've got some thoughts about how this could've been structured so that folks could both (probably, maybe, perhaps) finish and be rewarded commensurate with their efforts.

First, for the benefit of the forgotten folks in the two newest worlds, (and as a way of rewarding 'quality players', too), instead of 'pay X amount of Tier 3 stuff', replace that entire (repeating) quest chain with a lottery or casino. For example: Gain any amount of Tier 3 Goods for X number of Wheel Spins/High Card Draw/What-have-you with payouts that reward a random (significant) number of Beets/attempt OR the Daily Prize, outright. This would give folks without reasonable access to Tier 3 Goods the chance to progress and gain (via the Trader) and do away with the current 'extortion' , i.e., "Gather a bunch of goodies you'll have to pay for in lost city progress and toss'em into the toilet!"

Another would be: USE a number of PoP Spells vs. create'em. The effect is roughly the same, creation of the spells and teaching folks to make use of the MA, but the net effect is positive, there is both a useable and immediate reward besides gaining a few Beets. (Coupled with a bit of advanced planning, this step in the quest would propel folks forward in a timely fashion instead of retarding them). For the more advanced players that are able to take advantage of prior preparation, it reduces pointless grinding and if the devs feel a need to slow'em down they can fiddle with the formula for the folks in different Chapters, much as they do now.

Similarly, changing the quest from 'Gain X number of Supplies' to 'USE X number...' would be more pro-active, enabling/encouraging folks to put resources to work vs. flushing them for the sake of a few Beets. City progress continues vs. an imposed stall. (In case it isn't obvious, I'm not a fan of 'gain a gazillion goodies, then throw'em away.')

Some additions/replacements: Contribute X number of KP to ANOTHER player's Wonder. Register/Sign-in to the Forum (and/or comment on a thread). Log in X number of days, consecutively. (This one should be an 'automatic' quest step completion - once you've done it, it should store until the particular step is reached). Fight (or fight/win) X number of encounters in a Tournament. Cater X number of encounters in a Tournament. Gain X number of Relics FROM a Tournament. Post X number (1 star? 2? 3?) of trades. Accept X number of trades. Use Wholesaler feature.

There are lots of other things wigglin' around in my noggin. This post is long enough, though.

Late Edit: For ME! Just for MEEEEE! Make it so that after X number of chest attempts one can get the friggin' Daily Prize on the next attempt! I've opened more than 2 dozen chests and have a single Sun Codex to show for it. (I really think there should be a 'luck multiplier' inserted into this mess somewhere!)

And a still LATER edit (and an apology for confusing folks) Oh, puppy-poo! What I meant to put in the above was not about the tasks to "Gain X number..." of things, but rather, PAY X number of goodies. It's the pay this for (an unrewarding 'that') that's giving folks heartburn. Lo siento mucho, mi amigos. Insert 'Pay' in place of 'Gain' and it'll be more useful. (I hope. *cringe*)

 

[The Unbeliever]

Inno was exceptionally lazy in their quest line up this time around, and that's really saying something...

I would NOT enjoy seeing a tournament locked element added to the main quest line though, as we here in North America enjoy a special level of 'tournament hell', since the 16 hour cool down, coupled with Inno refusing to account for time zone shifting means that we get less time than European players do. (ie: the only way to get all 6 rounds in requires us to be able to complete 2 rounds in one day between Tues-Wed)
Plus, you'd then run into the fact that tournaments are only from mid afternoon Tues through mid afternoon Sat, which can leave players at a total & complete standstill for potentially 3 days!

Likewise, forcing players to 'fight and win X encounters' could be problematic, as many people find fighting becomes impossible later in the game, while fighting in Ch1-2 can be outright impossible as you lack all the troop types! (have fun trying to take a Mage-focused province when you don't have 'em yet!)

However, things like 'donate KP's to another AW' would be great!
They did as I recall, bring in some 'post X trades' & 'accept X trades' type quests during the Easter event - no idea why they suddenly garbage binned that idea?
Spending X+Y coins & supplies would be cool too! (as long as the totals are at least sane amounts...)

 

[DeletedUser3602]

Hey, can I ask a quick question? Someone in my FS asked if the Orc's nest will produce Orcs if you win it befóre the Orc's Chapter, but place it once you're in that chapter. I don't remember and I can't find it in the other posts. Does anyone know the answer?

 

[qaccy]

Similarly, changing the quest from 'Gain X number of Supplies' to 'USE X number...' would be more pro-active, enabling/encouraging folks to put resources to work vs. flushing them for the sake of a few Beets. City progress continues vs. an imposed stall. (In case it isn't obvious, I'm not a fan of 'gain a gazillion goodies, then throw'em away.')

I just want to call this point out in particular - the quests that ask you to gain resources aren't actually making you spend them. Your suggestion would be to do exactly what you said you don't want - throwing stuff away just for event currency. Of course, there are also quests in the event that ask you to pay supplies but it's not the ones you mentioned! That'd essentially be asking us to pay even more than we already are.

The rest of your ideas near the end are interesting, but they also bring up the same sort of issues people are having with this event. What happens if a quest asks for something the player isn't able to do? Tournaments have to be unlocked, and they can be pretty costly to new players (especially on worlds where EVERYONE is new, where there are already a lot of problems with this event as you can read above).

I have an idea for how goods quests in particular can be simplified: X amount of tier 1 goods, OR x/4 amount of tier 2 goods, OR x/16 amount of tier 3 goods. X would be chapter-based of course, and you'd have a multitude of options to complete the quest which should cater to everyone. Don't have a certain boost unlocked? You can keep plugging away at the tier 1 requirement and get it done that way. Or if you're an advanced city with all goods available, you can simply get there with whatever's easiest for you. The numbers I used are based on what the trader automatically fills in when posting trades (tier 3 is 4x more valuable than tier 2 and 16x more valuable than tier 1). Maybe something like this isn't so easy to code, but if it isn't then I think it should be done away with to ask for anything above tier 1 goods for time-limited events. But maybe the devs feel differently? After all, in other games it's common for some (or even all!) event content to be locked to players who haven't put sufficient time into developing their game state.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Hey, can I ask a quick question? Someone in my FS asked if the Orc's nest will produce Orcs if you win it befóre the Orc's Chapter, but place it once you're in that chapter. I don't remember and I can't find it in the other posts. Does anyone know the answer?

No. Orc nests like all event prizes are locked into their stats when you win them, and do not change regardless of when you place them.

 

[DeletedUser8779]

I just want to call this point out in particular - the quests that ask you to gain resources aren't actually making you spend them. Your suggestion would be to do exactly what you said you don't want - throwing stuff away just for event currency. Of course, there are also quests in the event that ask you to pay supplies but it's not the ones you mentioned! That'd essentially be asking us to pay even more than we already are.

Consider the source, I'm really new to this, but I don't get this point. By using vs. just creating the PoPs, isn't there a built in benefit? One not only gains 'event currency' but also gains whatever use the Supplies provide to them, concurrently. Isn't that a more desirable solution? (I'm prepared to accept "Nope!" but I don't know why that's "throwing stuff away." Could you clarify this some for me?)

Tournaments have to be unlocked, and they can be pretty costly to new players (especially on worlds where EVERYONE is new, where there are already a lot of problems with this event as you can read above).

This point, too, is one that gets by me. I've been using the Tournaments for the majority of my Relics. ('cuz, like a dummy, I overscouted myself to stasis, at first.) From the start, I've gained more from them via combat than cater. I was, essentially, 'in a new world'. Rather than wait for the opportunity to join an established FS, I snared my Vulgar Unicorn and got to work. I'm still at the point where I fight (and win) the vast majority of my Tourney accomplishments. After all, the opponents are tiered. It's not that hard. Could you flesh this out some for a noob?

 

[DeletedUser8779]

Likewise, forcing players to 'fight and win X encounters' could be problematic, as many people find fighting becomes impossible later in the game, while fighting in Ch1-2 can be outright impossible as you lack all the troop types! (have fun trying to take a Mage-focused province when you don't have 'em yet!)

I should've included this in the post above, but . I just don't get this. It may be severe noob-itis. I've taken a bunch of Tournament 'Mage-focused' provinces and can't even build Mages, yet. I just eat'em with dogs. Or poke'em with Sword Dancers. It's not difficult. How come you feel this is a stopper? (Note: I'm not trying to poke holes in your comment, I'm genuinely willing to learn.)

 

[SoggyShorts]

@PetitMal At a certain point of progress on the world map fights become 100% impossible until you unlock the next chapter, so for those that have scouted very far, negotiating or waiting are the only options.

 

[DeletedUser9506]

First of all, you're clearly not done with the entire quest because it's not possible - there are daily quests and we have 21 days to go until event ends. Next thing - I don't read tutorials, but creators probably took into consideration beets that spawn periodically around your city...which brings us to "first of all" part, meaning that we still have 21 days to collect a ton of them.

What I mean - I am on Quest 97 of the Sequential List - I am not getting more than about 20-30 sugar beets for every quest.. I am not getting 50-60 beets. I should have gotten 65 beets for 96 according to this https://www.gamersgemsofknowledge.com/march-of-herds-quests And I am no way getting that many. I should have a cumulative amount of way over 3,000 beets.. And should have easily unlocked one of the grand prizes.. but nope.

 

[SoggyShorts]

And should have easily unlocked one of the grand prizes.. but nope.

Beets don't unlock grand prizes, only rock candy does. You get 5/10/20 RC for opening a chest.

 

[DeletedUser9506]

Ty yes I understand that. but at only two levels left to go and not getting the beets listed on the link review.. I am wondering am I the only one not getting the 65 sugar beets after some of the lasts quests?

 

[DeletedUser8779]

@PetitMal At a certain point of progress on the world map fights become 100% impossible until you unlock the next chapter, so for those that have scouted very far, negotiating or waiting are the only options.

I think there are two trains of thought running here. What I'm specifically referring to is Event-related vs. "...progress on the world map..."

Some of the folks had a quibble about my thoughts on making "...Fight/Win X number of Tournament encounters..." a possibility. The wins I refer to are solely Tourney-related. I have catered all of my "...world map fights..."

 

[Ashrem]

So if players consider something not being an exploit...then it's not an exploit?

Absolutely, when you are using the word exploit as a basis for accusing them of having a cheating mentality (unlike it's actual, non-gamer, definition, which is descriptive of making an effort to profit from how things are, not pejorative). If the average player doesn't think they're cheating by using a strategy that works and the devs haven't asked them not to then how can you assert that it is reflective of a cheating mentality? Human beings are wired by natural selection to win contests. They play by the rules as they understand them, not the rules that exist in a certain other person's head.

Oh my, how could I ignore such factor as player's consideration. Maybe we can throw in some feelings too, they can change perception of things as well?

So you don't acknowledge that how a person thinks about the world has anything to do with whether they have a "cheating mentality"? That's an interesting, if incomprehensible position. If I think that using anything but a bow to hunt deer is cheating, does that mean a person who uses a rifle is guilty of an exploit?

Anyway, devs clearly tried to limit usage (abuse) of lvl 1 manufactories/workshops in this event. Either they are making crazy experiments and trying to decrease gaming quality, or, just bear with me, OR they are trying to improve gaming quality by fixing some flaws. And usage of flaws is......

You shouldn't make up definitions. Abuse means something. Flaw means something. Exploit means something. They often overlap, but don't mean the same the thing. A mechanic that is so boring it drives a lot of players away and reduces money for the developers is a flaw. People who thrive on boring tasks and get ahead becasue of them are not guilty of something. The developer changing the game to discourage a behavior does not mean that behavior was an exploit, only that they want us to do things a different way. Nobody kept level one manufactories aand workshops a secret, we discussed them at length. At any time the devs could have had a community manager post saying "Please don't do that, we consider it an exploit. They didn't. They changed certain aspects of the game to reduce the value of the strategy.

P.S. Don't make up definitions, self-made definitions are just weird and don't prove anything.

Oops.

What's the definition of smearing? Is it anything like claiming someone made up a definition of something after making up your own definition?

We already had an argument when you failed completely just because you didn't read previous posts. Read them in this thread. Then count how many are "unhappy" by increase in difficulty.... Okay, are we good? See, majority.

Sorry, that paragraph is incomprehensible to me. Am I supposed to have failed at being perfect? I'm not perfect. I'm a human being who has opinions and some skills and experience. Sometimes I read wrong and think someone wrote something when it was actually someone else. I always apologize when I realize it.

When someone apologizes to me, I don't drag out what they apologized about months later as proof they are bad people.

I note that you failed to read the parts in the current discussion where the most vocal people don't think the event is too hard, just that some parts of it are incredibly boring.

And yes, yes, yes.. you might now argue that I said "forum", and forum includes all players who registered, and I obviously didn't take into account their opinion...but come on, I meant people who were crying about this event in this and related threads.

No need to put words in my mouth. I don't think the majority of people "crying" (and thanks for gratuitous insulting us) think the event is too hard. I do think a lot of us think that some of the steps are boring, tedious, monotonous (and maybe even stupid, and pointless), though, which is not a good thing for any player to think about anything that wants to makes money by entertaining.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Ty yes I understand that. but at only two levels left to go and not getting the beets listed on the link review.. I am wondering am I the only one not getting the 65 sugar beets after some of the lasts quests?

So how many beets do you have? How many have you spent? The list you quoted has been correct for me (up to 84 so far).
Make sure to take a screenshot next time you complete a quest so you can contact support or something if there's a discrepancy in what players are getting.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Some of the folks had a quibble about my thoughts on making "...Fight/Win X number of Tournament encounters..."

Older events used to have "fight/solve X encounters" but were referring to the world map, not tournaments like you suggest. I think that is where the confusion came from.
Tying anything to tournaments would be problematic as they only run 5/7 days, and trying to time open spots with the 16h timer would be difficult.
Already we have seen a huge drop in tournaments points this week with the event running as players are keeping spots open to get PoP spells and relics when they need them for the event quests.

 

[DeletedUser9506]

So how many beets do you have? How many have you spent? The list you quoted has been correct for me (up to 84 so far).
Make sure to take a screenshot next time you complete a quest so you can contact support or something if there's a discrepancy in what players are getting.

I just realized the trouble! I am not on the level I thought I was.. ! They are in the similar order but I am only doing 20 Advanced Tools right now, not 40.. Whew.. sorry

 

[Ashrem]

Ty yes I understand that. but at only two levels left to go and not getting the beets listed on the link review.. I am wondering am I the only one not getting the 65 sugar beets after some of the lasts quests?

People will have a better idea of of whether you deviate substantially from the norm if you list how many beets you actually have along with your progress total toward the grand prizes (X/250 etc.)

 

[SoggyShorts]

I just realized the trouble! I am not on the level I thought I was.. ! They are in the similar order but I am only doing 20 Advanced Tools right now, not 40.. Whew.. sorry

So you thought you were on quest 97, but actually you are on 37. Impressive.

 

[DeletedUser7370]

I note that you failed to read the parts in the current discussion where the most vocal people don't think the event is too hard, just that some parts of it are incredibly boring.

Definitely not too hard. I am 40 minutes away from completing #67. And then I look down the list as see #78, produce 200 beverages, and I am bored because that is what I am doing to pass 66, 67, and 68. Bored now.

 

[mucksterme]

Definitely not too hard. I am 40 minutes away from completing #67. And then I look down the list as see #78, produce 200 beverages, and I am bored because that is what I am doing to pass 66, 67, and 68. Bored now.

This is pretty much my thought
I am on task 68 right now
Got the 15 bags of groceries, fine
BUT now i have to collect 427000 supplies?
And that right after two similar tasks.
No it isn't hard.
But it is tedious as ******