the rationale of the huge cost of negotiating and fighting a battle

[DeletedUser15604]

i realllllllly like this game... i am having extreme difficulty in the world map on province expansion... when i first started this game in January i was told that i had over explored in like the first week i played cause everything was at the red level... that slowly changed as i progressed through some chapters.. what i cant seem to grasp is now even on the ones that will say easy the cost to negotiate is just insane... up to nearly 2k of a resource not to mention the other cost of the secondary resource. Then if I choose to battle the fear of losing hundreds and hundreds of troops even on a win is just terrifying because of the cost and time and it takes to build enough troops to have just a couple of battles. Is there a better way to do this? i understand the game isnt made to finish in a few days, weeks or months but this is just ridiculous and honestly it is very demoralizing for such of a huge hindrance to be necessary to keep growing ur city... i mean really who wants to spend several days building up enough resources or troops to complete a province.. this also keeps me from enjoying any tourney play because i know ill need all the stuff im using for actual province expansion. thanks for listening to my mini rant and help as always is appreciated
best of luck to all on their endeavors
everhad

 

[Ashrem]

There are two issues. One, any province you scouted when it was red, even though it turns green later, the costs aren't really reduced, so it might be green, but if you scouted it earlier, it will still be hard.

Two, progress through the provinces is a pace control. Scouting isn't the goal. Scouting is the way to access resources to build the city, which is the goal. The game is not designed for the impatient.

 

[DeletedUser15604]

well ive really tried the last 2 chapters to only scout as necessary.. i was pretty much even at the end of chapter 4.. i think i had 4 provinces scouted above the required 75.. what is the cost of a negotiating for u.. that would give me an idea of how far off the mark i am lolol.. and ty for the info
everhad

 

[Mykan]

If you are in chapter 4 I strongly recommend sending in a ticket to support. They won't/can't help you but Inno doesn't see there is an issue with combat at the start of the game been very hard from the beginning. Lots of tickets from lots of people encountering that issue is about the only hope now of getting the message across.

As @Ashrem said the cost of a province is fixed at the time you scout. The colour codes can change as you learn new squad sizes and techs but the amount of troops and negotiating cost will be fixed. Your best bet is to spend some time on building up an armoury to combat your way through. It is hard to compare negotiating costs due to several factors, not the least of which is chapter, a cost of 2,000 goods is great for me.

Have you had a look at the combat guides on the forum and gamers gems of knowledge? The combat 101 and 201 post on the forum are also useful, depending on where your knowledge is at.

Some small consolation is that the fights do get easier from around chapter 5 going forward. The ease of fights each chapter also gets easier if you keep near or just above the minimum provinces.

 

[DeletedUser15604]

ok ty again.. i can appreciate what u say but i still just feel dissatisfied (not about ur reply, about game play)

 

[Mykan]

ok ty again.. i can appreciate what u say but i still just feel dissatisfied (not about ur reply, about game play)

I completely understand, I and others have pushed this point for about a year now. Its the reason I suggest a ticket to support to politely expresses the dissatisfaction.

 

[Ashrem]

As Mykan said, there is a spot around Chapter 4 where almost everyone is dissatisfied, and the developers need to deal with it, so it probably isn't over scouting now. There is inflationary pressure in the game, so costs do continue to increase over time, but it won't always be as hard as it is right now for you. My costs are pretty high, as I am over-scout, but I have also bought a number of land expansions, so tend to overproduce. Here are a couple of examples for me:

 

[DeletedUser15604]

omg lol that is just scarrrrrrrrrrry to think it even gets higher lol ty for showing me that....would u mind looking at my ciry and maybe giving me a pointer or two on things i might be doing wrong.. if u cant no big deal
thannks again and game on!
everhad

 

[samidodamage]

omg lol that is just scarrrrrrrrrrry to think it even gets higher lol ty for showing me that....would u mind looking at my ciry and maybe giving me a pointer or two on things i might be doing wrong.. if u cant no big deal
thannks again and game on!
everhad

I'm not @Ashrem (obviously, lol!), but I took a quick look. Not that it's 'wrong', but the first thing that jumped out at me was having so many upgraded non-boosted factories. Just about everyone does this in the beginning, I know I did. And it was scary to sell off buildings in which I had invested time & resources. I was also lucky that they had not yet started requiring the mixed T1 goods for event quests then. That would have made me think I *needed* to build/upgrade all of them. (Now, I just put in little lvl 1 non-boosted factories for the events because it doesn't matter how much *marble* you make, just that you make *Marble Mosaic* one time)
Building and upgrading non-boosted is a very inefficient way to get non-boosted goods. Building and upgrading boosted only factories and trading for non-boosted gets you more non-boosted goods faster than making them yourself. You'll get back the space and the pop/culture they're taking up, allowing you to do more/higher levels of the boosted and/or upgrade military bldgs so you can keep up with replacing troops lost. Troops are cheaper to make than goods, as they only require supplies. Once you pass this very difficult spot in Ch 4, you'll be well served to have your military buildings set up so you train troops 24/7. @SoggyShorts has a calculator around here somewhere (of course I can't find it right now) that helps figure out how to make the training queue time such that it doesn't run out during your longest times AFK (for me, that's overnight while sleeping).

 

[Ashrem]

I'm no design expert. sometimes @SoggyShorts can be sweet-talked into providing advice, and since he plays diamond-free, his experience is more broadly applicable.

 

[DeletedUser15604]

I'm not @Ashrem (obviously, lol!), but I took a quick look. Not that it's 'wrong', but the first thing that jumped out at me was having so many upgraded non-boosted factories. Just about everyone does this in the beginning, I know I did. And it was scary to sell off buildings in which I had invested time & resources. I was also lucky that they had not yet started requiring the mixed T1 goods for event quests then. That would have made me think I *needed* to build/upgrade all of them. (Now, I just put in little lvl 1 non-boosted factories for the events because it doesn't matter how much *marble* you make, just that you make *Marble Mosaic* one time)
Building and upgrading non-boosted is a very inefficient way to get non-boosted goods. Building and upgrading boosted only factories and trading for non-boosted gets you more non-boosted goods faster than making them yourself. You'll get back the space and the pop/culture they're taking up, allowing you to do more/higher levels of the boosted and/or upgrade military bldgs so you can keep up with replacing troops lost. Troops are cheaper to make than goods, as they only require supplies. Once you pass this very difficult spot in Ch 4, you'll be well served to have your military buildings set up so you train troops 24/7. @SoggyShorts has a calculator around here somewhere (of course I can't find it right now) that helps figure out how to make the training queue time such that it doesn't run out during your longest times AFK (for me, that's overnight while sleeping).

yeah we had kind of discussed that in the guild but nearly all of had the same boosted lol.. but i do a good bit a trading at the trader with non guild peeps... i really liked ur advice cause it kind is how i was seeing come.. thanks so very much for taking time to help

 

[DeletedUser15604]

I'm no design expert. sometimes @SoggyShorts can be sweet-talked into providing advice, and since he plays diamond-free, his experience is more broadly applicable.

okkk thank u again.. i so believe ive seen some post from soggyshorts... thank you again for ur help
i also try to play diamond free lol but i did buy some during that phoenix thing to get the ding dang feathers lol

 

[DeletedUser2768]

@EverHad i had some time on my hands, and here's a thought for your city.

http://www.elvenarchitect.com/city/planner/369bf0456f654d8ebf1bb47bf1396770/

My suggestions:
Fill in your expansions so you're building on a square. It really does make things easier.

I would also suggest ditching the luminous sign posts and the little culture items you have here and there, events and diamonds excluded.

Find whatever culture building will give you the most bang for your buck (gotta calculate per square), and build those.

Maybe add 1-3 more planks/silk/gems factories. Mykan has some great guides for that stuff. I think it's 5-7 of each, and dwindle down as you progress through chapters.

 

[DeletedUser15604]

@EverHad i had some time on my hands, and here's a thought for your city.

http://www.elvenarchitect.com/city/planner/369bf0456f654d8ebf1bb47bf1396770/

My suggestions:
Fill in your expansions so you're building on a square. It really does make things easier.

I would also suggest ditching the luminous sign posts and the little culture items you have here and there, events and diamonds excluded.

Find whatever culture building will give you the most bang for your buck (gotta calculate per square), and build those.

Maybe add 1-3 more planks/silk/gems factories. Mykan has some great guides for that stuff. I think it's 5-7 of each, and dwindle down as you progress through chapters.

wow o wow that was impressive gives me something to build towards if i can get a couple a plots free to move things around.. that was really incredible and not to sound like a commercial but great site u listed.. thanks so much for ur time
everhad

 

[Ashrem]

If you ever want to load your own city from scratch, start at elvenstats.com, and enter the city name you want to look at. Then on the "Me" Page (shortcut to you) look for "View City on Elvenarchitect" link:

Clicking on that will expose a link to the site Rosehawk pointed you to, along with an indicator of when it was last refreshed, and a loop icon to update it if you've made recent changes:

That link changes every time you move, delete, upgrade, or add a building, so you can always go there to get the freshest version of what it actually looks like.

By clicking on your name in the top corner, and then changing to a new city name, you can look at anyone's city the same way.

 

[Mykan]

A couple things.

• To me over-scouting is a dirty word, I really don't believe there is such a thing. There is simply where you are in relation to the minimum provinces required (chest requirement at the scout tech) and the difficulty of fights, ideally medium or easier (blue, green or yellow). As you progress those to points get further apart. When you start they are almost in a negative position from chapter 2 through to 4/5ish, a point Inno doesn't understand . A lot of people recommend skipping optional squad size techs for tournaments but it will cripple you at that early stage of the game if someone isn't able to help you with goods to negotiate or your very patient.
• In relation to town design the boosted goods approach is very good for efficiency and will help you a lot with your ability to make goods for negotiating. A solid start point is to have 40 squares of space allocated for each good type (basic, crafted, magical). The number of factories that requires changes based on goods, race, chapter which is why I don't talk about factory numbers but squares used. For example on the city link above your plank factories at 11-15 are 6 squares so 7 of these is 42 squares and would be a goal to work towards. I would focus on the T1 and T2 goods as a priority over T3 as you really don't need a lot of T3 and the cost of those in terms of coins and supplies is very high compared to the other goods, and support costs like population are normally higher too. The good news is 40 squares doesn't change from chapter 1 to 13 just the factory numbers does (normally decreases over time), Just increase the T3 factories as you need to for more goods, eventually you ill max them out.
• Small culture items are good as bookends for roads, Like those in the link between the Tome of secrets and the magic academy. Those items often have more culture than a road, whichever gives you more culture is good.
• Consider doing a tournament for your boosted goods, Save up goods and troops for that tournament and then chase relics as best you can. This may hurt in the short terms but the increased production boost will pay off long term for you.

Last but perhaps the most important advice, there is no right approach other than the one that works for you, suits you and that you enjoy. As you gain experience you will figure out what that approach is or may even have a sense of it already.

 

[Ashrem]

A couple things.

• To me over-scouting is a dirty word, I really don't believe there is such a thing.

Any choice in gaming is personal. There are physically extra costs associated with scouting more than the suggested number of provinces, and there is, therefore, such a thing.

 

[DeletedUser3507]

I found a few screenshot of a province I did months ago.

Spoiler: Planks 1

Spoiler: Planks 2

Spoiler: Planks 3

 

[Mykan]

Lol JPS are you trying to scare the new people?

@Ashrem While I understand your point, part of my issue with the word more precisely would be its overuse. Often people call it over-scouting when you do 1 more than the minimum number, despite Inno representatives telling us they do expect us to be able to do more than the minimum.

 

[DeletedUser3507]

Maybe a wee bit, but I am just presenting a ring 15, I will take a shot of the next 17 I do...
I going to start keeping screenshots of the 9 types