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    Your Elvenar Team

Tournament Changes - Community Feedback and Data

Nightguest

Community Manager
Elvenar Team
Hey there folks,

I'm going to try something a little different here (hopefully this won't bite me in the rear end!)

I'd like to split the tournament discussion into two:
  • The original thread: https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/tournament-changes.25318/
    Perfectly fine for discussions and I welcome you all to keep on writing (as of now, I have a lot to go through and reply to and I will get to you all over the weekend)
  • This post for facts/evidence/reviews only
    As such, do not start a conversation here, I will move posts around if I see it. This is a large community and you are all very passionate, however, I only human and need to be able to access the fact nice and easily in order to keep pressing this point

However, what would be needed the most is some direct feedback and comparisons of this tournament from everyone. So in this thread, I will ask you to leave a 'review' of the new system, comparing your current results and progression to what you remember getting in the old system. What would be 'ideal' is if people left that review regardless of if they like this change or dislike, and regardless of whether their points have increased or decreased.

Perspective
For some players, the new tournament has helped to improve their ability to participate, while for others it has become increasingly harder - even impossible.

Regardless of what category you are in, I would hugely appreciate it if you would let us know here:
  • Which of the tournament impacted (+ or -) the most?
  • In your opinion, what is hurting your progress the most?
  • OR if positive, what is improving your progression the most?
Additional
For those that are suffering in this system, many of you have written that you are unable to progress any further. Can you please give me an explanation of why?
For example, are the costs to negotiate prohibitive? Do you run into fights that are actually impossible? Or does a single (winnable) fight drain you so much that progression is impossible?

Those are just a few points, if you feel that there are more things that can be touched on, please do write it yourself.

Oh, and if you feel that a screenshot will help, please add it. The best way to think of this is, you need to write down your reasons as if you were persuading a baby (You're not, but over-complication is an issue with Elvenar and even devs can stare at texts/listen to my voice and entirely space out if it needlessly goes on and on).

And finally - please remember that this does not indicate in any way that changes will happen but it does help us to understand the wider picture.

[Seriously, people from other (non-US) communities - please don't attack your CMs over me making these posts. They are hurting from these changes just as much as you are, the majority are helping out with this, and I'd rather not have them annoyed at me for poking the hornets nest.]
 
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SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
There is little doubt that the reduction from 4 encounters to 1 has been great for almost all players.
Also, splitting the troop queues into all 3 buildings was obviously a boon to players.
IMO, other than to say "thank you very much" we can safely leave those out of the discussion.

The biggest complaint seems to be that not all "progress" helps a player more than it hurts.

There are various examples of this, but the most obvious and easily verifiable one is that not all wonders are created equal.
  • It's easy to see where having a max level Monastery will provide a greater benefit than a hindrance to one's sustainable tournament abilities.
  • On the other end having a level 16 Enar's, Thrones, BTG, and Watchtower is objectively worse than having none of those at all and fewer expansions placed.
The other major concern is that forward (tech tree) progress does not increase one's sustainable tournament ability but actually diminishes it.
E.G. A player who finishes chapter 16 can do more in the tournament each week than a player with the identical city + chapter 17 upgrades can once they complete chapter 17. This feels backward.

So for me, personally, I absolutely love how fast the tournament is to do now, but having such a negative downside to moving through the tech tree is a huge turn off.

Edit: Almost forgot, making it easier to go 6 deep in a few provinces is not great for everyone because doing 6 rounds is a huge commitment.
IMO it was better when players could do 25x2 or 15x3, or 11x4 or 8x5, or 6x6 to get 1600 pts according to their RL schedule.
Of course, the difference is much more pronounced when you compare doing 5,000 points in 2 rounds vs 6 rounds to say nothing of extra Pet food costs etc.
 
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CiraKelley

Active Member
I'm on Beta as well so have been playing this new tournament set up for quite a while now.
I loved it in the beginning, maybe because I was thrilled with one click instead of four.... and because my fellowship was/is going much further each week.

I don't play a high amount of points. I do 1,000+ to 3,000 points a week. That's it. I also cater more often than battle...or did in the past.
Side note that I'm in the Constructs/Elvenar chapters.

NOW, I HAVE to battle more often, even though I am not a town that is set up for that. I still cater but the costs are insane with the change.
I probably add in an extra 500 to 1,000 more points to the tourney each week now versus what I used to do. That's because it's easier to waste goods through the one click system we have now.
I am now constantly low on goods, almost always out of mana and orcs where this was NEVER a problem beforehand.

In 5+ years of playing, I've never struggled so much to gain what I need for my town. I set up my towns based on what each chapter needs...not what the tourney will take from me. This tourney system is now taking all of my resources, each week. :(

I can see it affecting my fellowship members and World Map players in exactly the same way. The Trader is full of cross trades for large amounts of goods now...so this didn't fix the 'same goods needed on certain tourney weeks' issue it claimed it would in the Announcement...now it's all goods are needed and in huge amounts because we can't keep up with the demand. That's not an opinion. That's how it has been with the tournament change.

Something's gotta give. The balancing needs rebalancing on an individual player basis.
 

sam767

Well-Known Member
Good: As an AM - it is overall easier for my FS
Good: The old system was mind-numbingly tedious as I scored 5K + the R2 KP (50ish deep)
Bad: I can't go 50x2 and 4x9 every week
Bad: I don't get a few ranking points every week
I'm told I can easily go 6x20 or so to get to 5K. But I only deploy my combat and polar bear boosts every second Friday.
 

Lelanya

Well-Known Member
Yes I too worry about tournament minimums on a busy week. I used to be able to do a core of 6 provinces (and try to stretch to 8 but feel obliged to make it 9) out to 4 or 5 rounds and push page 2 out to 2 rounds. But now it's not feasible to plan or bank on that at all, the losses mount up too quickly.
This works wonderfully on my 4.5 year old cities, with a Brown Bear and tons of supply instants but not so great where I haven't placed the Bear, or it is too weak to be effective.

I have a fellow who always used to run 60 provinces once a cycle as his contribution, but he gets bored with the 5 opponent format, and the mounting losses of his troops.

We shouldn't have to cherry pick developed Wonders, or worry about the feasibility of advancing past mid point of chapter 15. Also, I now worry about every expansion I place, and I won't ever BUY another.

There is a perception that the developers only care about the tiny cities that come and go, and rob the rest of us of the chance of having developed neighbours. I think this change reinforces this idea. It sure doesn't help to read them bragging in trade magazines and blogs about how the only help they want to hire, is in the mobile side of the game, which is poorly developed here, even yet.
 
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ed1960

Well-Known Member
For me, the Impacts are:

1-Click, Means I complete my small cities (chapter 6,7,8) in a matter of minutes out to 10 provinces and can usually make 5 rounds no problem but not 6 that gives me 1600-1900 points. Positive

1-Click, Means in my large cities (chapter 14,15) I am not catering at all, and I must Battle, I will not spend mana and orcs in Province1 Round 1, nor will cater rounds @ 21K T1, 16K T2, and 10K T3 that is not even close to reasonable, not to mention asking for 1900 Orcs for a single round. Negative, and I am now having to Manual battle many more times than before, and this is making the time to complete longer. I must feed my Fire Phoenix and deploy Dwarven Armorer, a UUU, and either an ELR or MM to have a chance at winning province 10-15. I am getting more points but at a cost in resources that may not be sustainable long term. Negative

1-Click, Means in my Medium cities (chapter 10,12) I am again being asked to spend Mana and Orcs in Province 1 round 1 more often than not, and again I will not pay that price, plus 1200 Orcs for a province is in no way a reduction and is in fact 10-100 times what it was. I can auto fight most of the way to 15 provinces, but the troop losses are not supportable. I have used almost all my supply instants to rebuild troops, and I am nowhere near what I was at. I will have to fall back to 8-10 provinces and maybe 4 rounds till I can rebuild.

What is Hurting my progress is that I built my cities based on the game parameters and followed the rules/advice/structure as created by the developers to grow my city buy expansions build up the Wonders, and NOW I am penalized for this. I just opened chapter 15 by completing the advance scouts, and Poof, the cost to complete the Spire and participate in the Tournaments, went through the roof. At this point, I have stopped progressing as that will only make it harder, and in truth, I can't get the needed KP nor the sentient goods to move thru the chapter, so why bother at all.
3,530KP are needed for ch 15 compared with 2,395 for ch 14: an increase of 1,135 or just 147% increase, and now you make it harder to get KP? So that you understand the prior chapters increase 13 to 14 is 7%

My other cities will have the same problem; it will just take longer and will be without any additional purchases for now.
 

Myosmar

Member
Positives:
  • 4 to 1 battle change
  • 5 enemy squad (instead of up to 8 from before) as I dont suffer as much debuff accumulation as before
Negatives:
  • Enemy squad to my squad size ratio cap removed. Now there are fights Mistwalker can take down 1 out my 5 squads at the beginning of battle (and they can reach all my troops in most cases), and random enemy types mean mistwalker can be paired with mages&H.range so I can't go in with only H.Range or L.Melee against fights involving mistwalker neither.
  • Negotiation costs for non-goods types feel extreme. I pray to get goods-types to negotiate.
  • I have the capacity to place 5-6 expansions right now and up to 10 soon, but I am not placing them since the value I will get out of the extra land will be less than increase of my tournament costs. In a city build game that feels so counter-intuitive. Land expansions was one of the most satisfying accomplishments, now they became just like how old optional squad sizes were.
  • Number of AWs I am skipping is so many more compared to before. Those *0.3 increase per AW lvl multiplied by exponential research multipled by expansions, adds up real quick.
  • Lost incentive to move forward faster (or move forward at all beyond a certain point)
  • Beyond 12th province I have to do manual fights and scout the map before each battle to avoid massive losses, whereas I would just auto in the past. But can't anymore due to amount of losses in auto. This means even though it is 1 instead of 4 battle, it is taking so much more time. But most importantly I used to do spire in PC, and tournament on mobile; and I can't do tournaments on mobile anymore.
This is the most serious issue I have, not being able to do tournaments in mobile anymore.
 

kctanzen

Well-Known Member
This has been my first exposure to the new format (not a Beta player, just read the forums there).
Leading off with the tier 1 group, it will not be a good representative sampling yet -- since there is only one "primary" enemy type each week, according to data gathered and confirmed pretty solidly from players who have been doing this in Beta / international servers.
I play on US 3, Felyndral and do not use the mobile app.

-- One encounter tourney round is a Very Good Thing for me, up to about province 15. I am pretty comfortable knowing what my troop strengths are and what match ups favor which troops. Someone new to the game however, does not have as many rounds, especially low cost / low risk early rounds to learn those matchups. The ease of play however, Very Good Thing.

-- This will be very city specific, as apparently there are a lot more variables going into the formula for the tourney now than there used to be, from my limited exposure in the new format. For me, province 20 is pretty much my hard stop point. Province 21, round 1 .. my starting squad size is roughly 5x my base. Even a relatively small loss with that many troops involved is a substantial cost to re-train. I experimented going to 25 on these tier 1 types, and it was not pretty. And even though there is only one encounter per round now, if doing manual battle and any melee units are involved, it takes quite a bit longer than before.

-- 5 enemy slots every battle is a downside for me. Multiplying the number of enemy slots by the size in them is a pretty quick thing for me in order to figure enemy size compared to my own and assign troops as needed (others maybe not so). Having 5 slots every time means I no longer get the chance of having one huge stack of enemy heavy melee that my blossom princesses completely obliterate.

-- I like to make things and trade -- generally have large piles of goods. Catering a few of the harder provinces or those with very unfavorable matchups hasn't been an issue as yet.

-- If I didn't have Time Warp, holding off on doing tourney provinces to line them up with event quests would have been an issue.

-- The split training queues are another Very Good Thing. I train about 50 to 70% of troops focused on the upcoming 'primary' enemy types and mix the other troops in to gradually build them up and because any type can show up anytime, need to be prepared. Learning how to best use when to feed my brown bear and go to town with a training blitz will come with some practice.

-- For a newish city .. the inability to go 20+ rounds will be an issue. The lack of relics and Power of Provision spells, let alone the round 2 KPs unable to be collected, will greatly slow progress. As will a much less chance to be able to collect runes for Ancient Wonders, since going out farther becomes prohibitively costly in troops and goods as the city grows -- and every time we open up more research for new wonders, it dilutes the pool of runes which we might need.
 

Meggi

Active Member
Hi Nightguest,
here are some screen shots for you, it might help...
that is province 24 level 5, auto, losses are horrendous ....and that's me manually fighting on province 29 level 5, even so, my wardens got killed...
here are the prices for catering:
who in a world wants to cater that?
 

Attachments

NightshadeCS

Well-Known Member
I am a veteran player, but am not a power player. I have maintained 1000-3000 points per tournament in two cities, with one smaller that gets about 1000 per week. One city has finished Chapter 17, one is in Elementals, the third is entering Dwarves. In all three I am able to match or exceed my previous tournament scores.

My wonders are not overly upgraded. I have most of them in my main city, usually somewhere between level 6 and 15. I have some premium expansions, but not the most I could have.

Overall, the change to one encounter per province has been WONDERFUL. Each week, I actually dreaded having to start the tourney, since it was so tedious. Now I feel good about it again.

I find that I have been performing better overall in the tourney since the changes. The loss of tedium has me doing more rounds than I was doing before (pre-tourney change: usually 2 rounds out to 20-25 provinces + a couple 3-star; post-tourney chages: 20 provinces out to 4 or 5 rounds).

I have higher troop losses, but that is offset by the three training queues. I have simply had to adjust my supplies production, which is nicely utilizing my PoP spells (of which I had hundreds sitting uselessly in my inventory), and doing some quest-cycling.
 

Swankey Bob

Member
Positives:
  • Tournament is more approachable for newer players (although maybe taken too far with new accounts always maxing out every province they have access to)
  • 1 encounter instead of 4 is a nice quality of life improvement. It now takes a minimum of 11 clicks to auto fight a province level while before with 4 encounters it took a minimum of 43. Thats roughly 75% less clicking which really added up for those who went deep into the tournament. Considering I went 56 provinces 6 stars deep before tournament changes I had clicked around 14,500 times. Thank you from saving us from carpal tunnel!
  • Reduced catering costs (on early levels) does make catering more viable. High levels are still a bit crazy but thats likely due to problems in difficulty scaling.
  • Added range of resources to catering feels like a positive. (Although mana feels a bit high for players just entering wood elves who only have access to buildable mana producing buildings. Event buildings are needed to support those costs.)
  • Squad size research becoming a positive is a huge improvement in my opinion. The old system punished players for doing it which made squad research kind of a joke on new players who didn't know better than to avoid that research.
  • Enemies always having 5 squads felt like a great change for those who want to manually fight. The old version where 1 huge stack of enemies could spawn resulted in odd unavoidable losses.
  • The additional stretch chests 11-19 was a very positive change. The rewards feel very low but it was nice to feel like there was a purpose for your FS hitting over 40k points.
  • Nobody else has mentioned it but for me the Spire of Eternity feels much more balanced.

  • (Not implemented) but the idea of some system of making the use of speed-ups viable sounded great..

Negatives:
  • My point average has dropped massively. My last tournament before the changes I scored over 15k points, these tournaments I am around 4k. This feels like a huge step backwards. This is with me consuming unit boost buildings.
  • My provinces completed has also changed in a way that provides less. Previously my 3k scores would come from a high amount of provinces hitting 2 stars for the +5kp. Now they come from higher stars in low level provinces. This maintains cost for lower rewards.
  • The increased difficulty for having AW levels is depressing. It makes me question what the point is. Elvenar has always been a game of 'moving the goal posts' each chapter but AW levels were true growth. To have them punish players in any way feels unfair.
  • The change in rewards for the tournament is HUGE. My last tournament before the changes I received 586 KP, 56 broken shards, 53 Power of Provision, 53 Enscrolled Endowment, and 6 Magical Manufacturing as individual rewards. Recent tournaments have been roughly a fifth of that. I understand making the tournament more difficult so players dont do 80 provinces but why not scale the rewards in ratio to scaling the difficulty? This increases cost and decreases rewards.
  • My ability to grow my city has been hurt by the lack of KP income. I feel like it will take me a silly amount of time to research through a chapter now compared to before.
  • The shift in player ability feels unfair. I have spent somewhere between 1-3k USD on the game and worked very hard to achieve high scores. Now new players run circles around me. This makes me feel cheated.
  • The motivation to progress through the ages is gone. I recognize the problems I have and see how they effect players at the end game and I do not see any reason to progress. The two real benefits use to be new AW's and higher tournament rewards. Now this growth is punished while it will take much more time and effort to research through a chapter.
  • There is no way for me to adapt my city to the changes. I am only in chapter 10 but I have 139 expansions and 163 AW levels. There is no 'delete expansion' button or 'undo research' for me to scale my city down to that sweet spot for tournaments. I could delete my AW's but its insane that thats now 'rewarded gameplay.' The realization that my only true option is to start over because of these changes makes me upset.
  • Most importantly- I no longer enjoy the game.
Im struggling with the 'sunk cost fallacy' right now. While I want to walk away and I don't enjoy the game I spent so much time and energy on the game that I dont want to give up. I do hope you guys are able to make the game fun again. Regardless your work is appreciated and I would like to thank you for taking time to receive some feedback from us.
 
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SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
My thoughts on expansions:
  • There is a soft cap on how many expansions help you with your military. Once you have all of the wonders placed, the next expansion you place can only increase your tournament ability by adding Grounds of the Orc Strategists or Vallors, and that's only 2/5 unit types and the buildings do not scale very well at all.
  • For catering, there are significantly diminishing returns as well. If you can sustainably cater 20 provinces and then place enough expansions to double your factories you absolutely cannot double how much tournament you can clear.
Due to this the original claim that "All progress will help more than it hurts" misses the mark again.

Perhaps more important than the above is the base concept of gaming progress being lost. In any given game there needs to be meaningful choices, but in good games, one should be able to overcome those choices with effort and time.

A good example of how Elvenar did this before the change was that if a player wanted to do well in the tournament they needed wonders that would help them, but that meant using expansions that are then not available for things like events, the FA, or decoration. This could be overcome by spending money on the game and simply buying more space, or by grinding it out and clearing the world map again and again until it awarded some more space for non-tournament use. Now it feels like there is no amount of effort (or money) that will allow a player to both excel in the tournament and have some extra non-productive space, and that's a real shame.
 
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Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
Also on expansions. This is the one area where the devs really need to look again. Most people may not realize it, but mandatory expansion research hits a player twice, once for completing the research and once for placing the expansion. They did this better with the optional researches because your squad size only grows when placing the expansion and not on researching it. As for premium expansions, why is Inno punishing the players who are willing to spend money/diamonds on their game? The squad increase from both these and placed expansions from mandatory research should at least be cut in half.
 

DeletedUser7462

Guest
Positive: what most people said above.
Negative: What people said above Plus 1
Troop size make all building that produce troops useless. I have a 10K tournament average and went all out for 10K the first tournament. Cost me over 200 5hr instants with a level 10 brown bear to make up the troop loss. That is not substainable. Right now I'M at province 19. The cost to throw 5 orc strategist is 57000 where before It would have been 7500. An extra 50000 Orc strategist is a lot of collecting from the grounds of the orc strategist when it provide 340 of them every 12 hrs. The same goes for all the AW's that produce troops.
I'm at endgame and how will this change my play when the next chapter is released? Quit tournament beside the 1600 point needed for the fellowship. No point to get 10K points because no need for kp to boost wonders anymore. The fun of the tournament is gone
 

Clusseau

Active Member
It might be interesting to have some battles that are a bit harder to win,
But we've been given nothing but battles that are simply too expensive to win.
Battle Slots at about province 20 require six squads to fill. That makes them too expensive to lose, or even to fight serious battles.
I think it's around province 50 they require more than 10 squads per slot, and cost continue to go up sharply. They become too expensive to take even a minor hit from sending a scout. This seems bad to me.

Due to the new troop costs, I can now only trifle with the tournament. My 19K average will soon be 4-5K.
This seems bad to me.

Ive heard that INNO intended to reduce Top Scores, to stop KP mining The result of the changes doesnt seem to have put much of a dent in that- but it has Instantly moved me from near the front to near the Back. This seems bad to me.

Choosing the wrong AW to build- Filling your City with poor choices- Spending money for Expansions or magic buildings, or to speed your way through a Chapter, should never cause harm. Their worst penalty should be that they are useless, (or, Less Useful than was hoped).
Suffering irreparable harm for Achievements- or for spending cash- isnt a game that anyone can play for amusement.
Im referring to tournament troop costs coming from expansions and research that you cant SELL, which are multiplied by AW that you shouldnt Have to Sell. This seems bad to me.

For me, it appears there are No Achievements, no City Planning, no Diamonds to spend, no AW upgrading that will improve my position.
If I were to continue playing, my only Strategy for improvement is to make No Progress??
This seems bad to me.
 

LordVorKon

Active Member
My review after week 3 of the new tournament:
I'm at the end of Chapter 16, but not highly optimized for combat at all. I do not fight manual; if I can't win on autofight, I either cater or quit.

Overall, I feel that I have been unaffected or slightly benefited by the new tournaments (so far). In the past, I have rarely gone deeper than 20 provinces anyway, so the fact that I start running out of troops at 16-20 now seems hardly a drawback. I expect my long-term performance to remain in the 10-15 province range, although I may find I have to work harder to build up stocks for a heavy push week.

The randomized enemies is frustrating; I don't believe I've seen all five troop types in one province, but I've definitely seen four more than I'd like. And yet despite that, I'm not convinced I've used a single stack of mages in the last three weeks. Adding all the other resources to catering costs was a bit of a rude 'surprise'. I say 'surprise' because I knew it was going to be a thing, but I didn't expect to expend so many supplies in particular on catering. Between tournament catering, spire catering, and extra troop training, I've used more Power of Provision spells in the last three weeks than I have in the previous three months, not to mention babysitting more Simple Tools than I care to think about.

So, a couple thoughts for possible improvement:
A) Get rid of the Placed Expansions term entirely. Space is only as useful/powerful as the things you put in it, so paying for guest race space, for example (whether it's currently in use or not) is entirely punitive and not at all conducive to encouraging further progress in the research tree. If 'space used' HAS to be tracked in some way, perhaps Armory Levels would be an acceptable substitute (hopefully at a lower multiplier).

B) Don't ask for orcs/mana in the first few provinces, even for cities that can produce them. Maybe don't ask for either until after province 10 or so.

C) Don't rate levels in all Ancient Wonders equally. Levels in Blooming Trader Guild are NOT the same impact as levels in Dwarven Bulwark, for example.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
First of all, accolades to @Nightguest for setting up this thread, and a big wow to the players who have posted so far as the feedback is incredibly well thought out and expressed.

@Swankey Bob really said it well with the "sunk cost fallacy" in that it feels like chasing a dead horse because of all of the time, energy and cash spent on a game that you come to and the changes just make you feel bad going through the tournament.

It isn't just how it affects my game in the tournament, but it is straining my resources where I've given millions of goods to team mates to either help them out or to move forward on fellowship goals and my net resources are declining now so not only has my game been hurt, but so has my ability to be a supporter in my fellowship been hurt. Our fellowship has always said that if you need help with goods, just ask and that has never been a problem. No one has ever taken advantage of it, but my resources in every category are declining now, goods, spells, military, coin, supplies, mana and orcs.

The supplies and coin really is limited by the main hall, those costs are pulled into this really bad formula for the new tournament.

Here's an example, so a player with 27000k coin capacity at province 26 needs 3500k coin to negotiate, or 12.96% of their coin capacity. Well, I need 14000k coin at province 26, for 25.92% of my coin capacity. For the 27000k capacity main hall you get 52,000 from NH, so 67 visits to replace. For the 54000k main hall you get 90,000 from NH, so 156 visits to replace it. Come on, that's an insane imbalance.

There was talk about making it so catering was in balance with military and it is a total fail. Looking at the coin again, until level 17 the main all gave a constant 0.3% of its capacity for NH. Level 19 give 0.27%, level 21 gives 0.25%, level 23 gives 0.23%, level 25 gives 0.21%, level 27 gives 0.2%, level 29 gives 0.19%, level 31 gives 0.176%, level 33 gives 0.168%, level 35 gives 0.1674%, level 37 gives 0.1667% and doing chapter 17 for level 39 gives 0.15%, so since Dwarves the value of NH relative to the main hall has been cut in half. This problem was meagerly addressed in beta in that they reduced the frequency of coin or supplies showing up so I do believe goods show up somewhat more frequently then they did at first release.

Consider the GA, which gives its rewards based on the main hall. Well, in both these examples the GA is at level 30, so I have effectively half the benefit from the GA because my catering costs are double the percent of my main hall. At one time the GA gave a coin bonus also based on the bonus culture, but any benefit from compounding from AWs that help with culture has specifically been removed, yet the compound from having AWs leads to serious imbalance such as just the coin issue that I've outlined here.

I have been an over the top prolific writer about problems with the new tournament, but I've also offered reasonable compromise suggestions.

In this post, https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/inde...changes-post-release.15204/page-57#post-89121, I showed the old tournament difficulty and I proposed increasing by 2% per provinces and 8% per level. The proposal would really address the inability to go out 6 levels. People that were doing maximum 5 levels never hit difficulty above 145%, and with this proposal on level 2 that was hit at province 35, and at province 23 for level 5. I posted number in red to show where it would be easier than the former tournament and where it would be more difficult in black.

In this post, I drew in a yellow line for a more reasonable difficulty curve, https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/release-notes-version-1-115.15617/#post-91200. It looks to me that my yellow line finishes with a difficulty of about 180% at province 50.

I have no idea where Inno's thinking started, but with as much thinking through as I've done, and looking at the system they built, I recently did another proposal where I set province 50 level 6 at 200% difficulty and worked it backwards. Province 50 level 6 has a difficulty of about 223%. I estimate that everyone except the beginning players would be able to do 3-6 more provinces with this proposal. I think it is really important to look at where that 145% difficulty came in because so many players weren't playing level 6 or much past the first 9 provinces on level 6 because of the lack of tournament rewards. https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/tournament-score.15731/#post-92209
 

helya

Community Manager
Elvenar Team
The purpose of this thread is to gather information about how the tournament affects all players. We do not want discussion on this thread, it is designed to organize player feedback so we have all of the data concisely in one area. We also do not want to discourage players that enjoy the new format from making themselves heard as well. We ask that everyone not create any discussion in this thread, as per @Nightguest's original post.

I'd like to split the tournament discussion into two:
  • The original thread: https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/tournament-changes.25318/
    Perfectly fine for discussions and I welcome you all to keep on writing (as of now, I have a lot to go through and reply to and I will get to you all over the weekend)
  • This post for facts/evidence/reviews only
    As such, do not start a conversation here, I will move posts around if I see it. This is a large community and you are all very passionate, however, I only human and need to be able to access the fact nice and easily in order to keep pressing this point
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Note from @Nightguest
I've cleaned up this post entirely for the very reason that @helya and @Xelenia have brought up - however, this post has been left here as a reminder.
Please do note that we are using THIS post directly with the rest of the team and so we really need it to be as clean as possible.
 
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Positives for the new tourney:
  • One encounter per province is WONDERFUL. No more endless clicking through four encounters per province.
  • Extra chests are great! Thank you!
  • Training in all three military buildings is an excellent change, as well. All three of mine are continuously training troops.
Negatives for the new tourney:
  • The tourney is regarded as the best source of all things needed to advance one’s city. KPs, relics, spells, you can get ‘em all in the tourney. And the rewards at the end of the tourney are sweet! Unfortunately, I crafted my city to be honed for tourney performance, but now my tourney capability is greatly handicapped by all that work. I have every single available expansion, finished Chapter 16, and have 533 wonder levels. Yes, that was a lot of work, but it was fun, and all that advancement had a purpose. It allowed me to advance even further. Now, if I advance, I will only be making the tourney harder and harder, to the point that I will not be able to do it anymore. Then where will I get KPs, relics, spells, and everything else the tourney provides? It seems pointless to do the next chapter and upgrade AWs if I want to continue to do the tourney. All players who advance their cities will eventually face this same dilemma. I am still playing the tourney but experiencing huge troop losses and using up tons of goods. It isn’t sustainable. And it’s a sad day if I have to delete Ancient Wonders in order to play the tourney. Why have AWs if they are going to penalize tourney difficulty?
  • I completely understand the need to make the tourney easier for players in earlier chapters. I am hopeful that some consideration will be made for advanced players, as well, so that we can advance our cities with new chapters and continue to play the tournament.