Tournament Changes

[GlamDoll]

The biggest thing for me is the enjoyment level just took a major dump

Greetings. Many a moon has passed, since we last spoke...but I do recall our interaction 2 years ago, when I raged-joined this Forum. As anyone who has been here for that period of time knows...I have been howling at the moon for over 2 years @Inno, regarding the fun factor! Inno will not stop until they kill this game! I am all but certain of it! 99%

EZ/GlamDoll

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

So?
It shows you havent used them (much) and have been collected them for a long time.

It does not change the fact that unless you have an overkill of armouries it's impossible to sustain orc strategist production in your training grounds.

Six level 37 Armories at 1600 per 12 hours each or 19200 total per day, one chapter 16 Orc Ship at 1460 per day, one chapter 15 Orc Nest at 880 per day. Total of 21,540 orcs per day. My current orc strategist production is 4242 orcs for 5006 orc strategists, without activating the brown bear for 50% more. Five full slots would use 21,210 orcs to make 25,006 orc strategists. My current training time per slot is 2 1/2 hours, so I can only train 5 slots a day to not use more orcs than I make. With my 5316 squad size, that means 2658 orc strategists per squad, so I can make 9+ squads per day and not reduce my orc supply.

 

[GlamDoll]

I went from being one of my FSs big hitters to being average. My Orc city does better with no boosts.

I was top for over a month in my FS! I hear ya. I have been given heat before, for double posting, so I assume it's incoming again! BTW! I wish that were the only problems with this game...and, at this point IDC if I hear anything from anybody or get banned for life here. The game is dying. Seen it before & I shall see it again. What a shame it is.

No, nobody at all can debate me & change my mind, BUT, Inno might, if they stop this nonsense...PERIOD.

Edit: NVM, Enevhar posted before I did again.

 

[Pheryll]

I also noticed numbers as 20, 25m+ coins ect. really scary numbers

Looks like the coin costs will eventually exceed the cap. At 25 million, they are already almost half way there.

 

[Black watch]

Greetings. Many a moon has passed, since we last spoke...but I do recall our interaction 2 years ago, when I raged-joined this Forum. As anyone who has been here for that period of time knows...I have been howling at the moon for over 2 years @Inno, regarding the fun factor! Inno will not stop until they kill this game! I am all but certain of it! 99%

EZ/GlamDoll

they keep making progress toward that it does seem. I've seen a few nice things come down the road, but in important things, like the tourney and spire... (the two most important things IMO) they dropped the ball and left for parts unknown... I just don't get it either.
It's a game, it should be fun... we know... the problem again, is we can see opportunity and possibilties... INNO sees something... not sure what it is, but it's getting weirder.

 

[BrinDarby]

@CrazyWizard ,

You need to go to that spreadsheet, copy it (so you can adjust the values on page 1) then adjust tose values.
Then the spreadsheet calculates all values and present that in the additional tabs.

I've said many times and prolly in that post... --- I Don't Do Google ---
Should I say that again ?? here is not the place to debate browsing habbits.....

why can't ppl just answer a question with an answer, not another question ?

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

@CrazyWizard ,



I've said many times and prolly in that post... --- I Don't Do Google ---
Should I say that again ?? here is not the place to debate browsing habbits.....

why can't ppl just answer a question with an answer, not another question ?

Then do not whine about not having access to information, and FYI it's impossible to do that unless you live in korea, or china and only visit korean and chinese websites as most have google interation.

So good luck with that.

 

[DeletedUser2870]

Six level 37 Armories at 1600 per 12 hours each or 19200 total per day, one chapter 16 Orc Ship at 1460 per day, one chapter 15 Orc Nest at 880 per day. Total of 21,540 orcs per day. My current orc strategist production is 4242 orcs for 5006 orc strategists, without activating the brown bear for 50% more. Five full slots would use 21,210 orcs to make 25,006 orc strategists. My current training time per slot is 2 1/2 hours, so I can only train 5 slots a day to not use more orcs than I make. With my 5316 squad size, that means 2658 orc strategists per squad, so I can make 9+ squads per day and not reduce my orc supply.

I'll quote @CrazyWizard on this : 'So?"
You may be able to maintain the amount of orcs while training orc-strategists, but that does not take into account any catering. Having to cater maybe about 40.000 orcs in round 1, then another 60.000 in round 2 in order to get to 20 provinces for round 2 makes that unsustainable. And that's not considering the additional rounds yet. Or the need for orcs in research. I had 1.2 million orcs entering the last chapter and was down to less than 80.000 by the end.
Not to mention most players are not running 6 lvl 37 armories. And your calculation is only correct if you never have any downtime on your armories. Most people have other things to do in life than sit and wait for the second an armory in a game can be reset.

I sincerely feel the cost in orcs has 1 too many zeroes attached to it. Same with the mana. Especially since these cannot be traded, so it takes away the possibility of more advanced players helping out those not so far along.
Plus of course that I feel extremely pissed about the fact I have spent a serious amount of real money on buying premium-expansions which now I'm being punished for. Same with the fact I spent a lot of effort in tourneys to gain a lot of KPs, crafted a lot of KP instants, bought a lot of KPs, all to advance my AWs and now am being punished for doing that as well.
What kind of idiotic idea is that, to punish your customer base for spending time and money on your product?

 

[T6583]

How are the catering costs hitting players who are not going out more than 10 provinces? Players in woodelves and above?

It depends on alot of factors which include AW levels, expansions placed, mandatory tech research so it's going to be different for players based on their cities despite being in the same chapter. For example in my Ch. 16 (I'm completely done with the chapter and all research completed) city my provience 1 6 star is 120K supplies, 15K Marble, and 11K Silk. My provience 3 6 star is 31K mana, 9800 elixir, and 20K planks. My provience 10 6 star is 37K steel, 18K elixir, and 28K scrolls. I haven't been paying attention to catering costs since I fight so I can only look at what I currently have open but just from that sampling it adds up quickly to the point if I catered it might take me days to recover from 1 provience round. I also only have 203 AW levels and 126 expanisions. @CrazyWizard will give you completely different numbers for a similar Ch. 16 where the only difference is AW levels and expansions placed. His Ch. 16 city according to ElvenStats has 846 AW levels and 150 expansions. Same with @Kekune. Her numbers will be different as well. Same with @Risen Malchiah when comparing his Ch. 15 city to my Ch. 15 city. They will aslo have different numbers.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

It depends on alot of factors which include AW levels, expansions placed, mandatory tech research so it's going to be different for players based on their cities despite being in the same chapter. For example in my Ch. 16 (I'm completely done with the chapter and all research completed) city my provience 1 6 star is 120K supplies, 15K Marble, and 11K Silk. My provience 3 6 star is 31K mana, 9800 elixir, and 20K planks. My provience 10 6 star is 37K steel, 18K elixir, and 28K scrolls. I haven't been paying attention to catering costs since I fight so I can only look at what I currently have open but just from that sampling it adds up quickly to the point if I catered it might take me days to recover from 1 provience round. I also only have 203 AW levels and 126 expanisions. @CrazyWizard will give you completely different numbers for a similar Ch. 16 where the only difference is AW levels and expansions placed. His Ch. 16 city according to ElvenStats has 846 AW levels and 150 expansions. Same with @Kekune. Her numbers will be different as well. Same with @Risen Malchiah when comparing his Ch. 15 city to my Ch. 15 city. They will aslo have different numbers.

Catering is possible is your city is totally dedicated to it.
I made some calculations on EN about an hour ago.

It might be possible if you can keep the used space extremely limited, make use of alternative goods production (like library set, mermaids paradise, trader I II and III from the MA ect.
Then you could have insane scores I think in 6 tournaments with the following rules.

It must be in the orc chapter (to unlock more than 222 provincies and at the same time don't be bothered with orcs mana ect in the tournament which saves space)
Get not more production than you need and keep space to an absolute minimum. do not build wasted space like MA or barracks, and maybe you might get away without a trader as well. (tho this might interfere with aquiring the correct buildings)
Do not give neighourly help and get rid of your bonus relics by leveling, then destroy rebuild ect of wonders.

Goals 0 relic bonus (you do not need it for alternative production buildings)
0 Wonderlevels
Absolute minimum of expansions, and those you do get have to be premium (go spire?)

This should get your costs in the tournament to near chapter 1 levels

When we look at a chapter 8 town, with only 21 expansions in total (6 base +15 premium we see these costs

Provincie 500
24.000 coins
2400 supplies
310 T1
230 T2
150 T3

These are very reasonable numbers that might actualy be possible to aquire in decent numbers.
And those coins / supply needs in a pinch are also very easy to aquire with a little bit of questing in numbers much greater then required so limited questing only.

Off course this is looking up the edges of possibilities but yes it surely is possible.
I also wonder with these numbers how much more expansions you can get away with before it no longer has a net gain.
I just grabbed a value I liked, but a much larger city might be possible as long as you keep that relic bonus at 0.
You would need to run some simulations to figure that out.
https://en.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/upcoming-tournament-changes.12925/post-81612


just for lolz your mana plant / gum tree would provide 178 t3 per day/21 hours which is 77% of what you need to pay off province 50 using only a single square. which is very resonable. 1 expansion would provide 178*25=4450 t3 per day so 2-3 expansions would be enough to pay for 60-80 provinces

Endless scrolls 690 on 2 squares, you need little of that, then cross trade for t1 as you need very little compared to big players. they could take that tiny bit easily and you can see an insane tourney killer on negotiating alone with little effort, very little effort indeed.
https://en.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/upcoming-tournament-changes.12925/post-81614

To build up an account like this takes a lot of time (tho time boosters from spire can help a huge amount in unlocking more provinces)
Especially to aquire all the set parts and premium expansions if you go the freebee route.
Tho additional worlds with 9 on US could make it pretty fast to get the diamonds.

But it would absolutly slay the competition in those 6 tournaments you play, and that with only logging in once or twice a day

 

[SoggyShorts]

I've said many times and prolly in that post... --- I Don't Do Google ---
Should I say that again ?? here is not the place to debate browsing habbits.....
why can't ppl just answer a question with an answer, not another question ?

Yeah so you asked for a calculator and the most flexible one available to anybody is a spreadsheet, and the most shareable one is a google sheet.
Hours and hours went into the creation of that calculator but because of some bizarre anti-google bent, you want(damn near demand) that someone makes a custom made one for you on another platform?

No problem. I'll do it. Where should I send you my Paypal info? I'll need the full $500 USD upfront of course.

 

[qaccy]

I noticed this tourney unit mixup was very very favorable to manual fighting with 50% of this fights without losses are at worst with very very very few, the other fights had "normal losses" and I had only a hanfull of dradfull battles, I wonder how this turn out in the comming tournamaments where it looks this trend will not continue

I've auto-fought every battle so far this tournament, as I've always done. I don't need to manually fight in order to beat 5 squads of heavy units. Send in my mages and call it a day. Likewise for 4 squads. But depending on the breakdown of those 4 squads and what the 5th unit is, I'll send in either archers or mages. Still auto fighting. The battles besides that depend a lot on what the units are, but if it looks messy I just skip it. Nothing in Elvenar is worth enough of my time to use the manual battle system.

Looks like there no longer is any use for melee units in the tournament, reducing the unit options to only the 3 ranged unit types. this is especially bad for the training grounds as the only "trainable unit" is now the druid, not because it's good, but because it's not unusable.

For what it's worth, light melee units have always been pretty bad because of how the combat system is set up. Their overall low defenses and that they always have to be directly next to a target to attack it both add up to them essentially being cannon fodder against any unit that has ranged attacks (which is most of them). Cerberus occasionally get to shine because of their movement, but other light melee units are terrible, to the point where that's almost fact rather than opinion.

Heavy melee is close to the bottom with light melee, but Paladins and VGs save them with their ranged attack. Plus, they're able to relatively easily shrug off attacks from Enchantresses despite the 'disadvantage' (Enchantresses have a pretty low bonus against heavy melee units).

As for the Training Grounds, or rather the Dryad, I've got a much more favorable opinion of it. It deals the most damage of the light range units, which also means boosters have the largest effect on it. Of course Rangers are stronger against mages, but if there are few/none of them and I still want to use light range, Dryads are my pick. Much better performance against heavy melee units (which incidentally is great news for this tournament) and sometimes the lower movement is actually an advantage for auto-fighting. Lacking retaliation isn't really a concern for me either, as that counterattack is pointless either because the unit's not a threat (a mage or heavy melee unit), or because it won't be doing very much damage. This is all just preference though, Rangers work well enough overall. But some 'favorable' fights I've still had some rather surprising losses because of how frail they are!

Plus of course that I feel extremely pissed about the fact I have spent a serious amount of real money on buying premium-expansions which now I'm being punished for. Same with the fact I spent a lot of effort in tourneys to gain a lot of KPs, crafted a lot of KP instants, bought a lot of KPs, all to advance my AWs and now am being punished for doing that as well.
What kind of idiotic idea is that, to punish your customer base for spending time and money on your product?

Yup, your punishment for buying expansions and leveling AWs is having more space and stronger AW bonuses. Have fun struggling with a better city!

 

[Heymrdiedier]

Catering is possible is your city is totally dedicated to it.
I made some calculations on EN about an hour ago.

It might be possible if you can keep the used space extremely limited, make use of alternative goods production (like library set, mermaids paradise, trader I II and III from the MA ect.
Then you could have insane scores I think in 6 tournaments with the following rules.

It must be in the orc chapter (to unlock more than 222 provincies and at the same time don't be bothered with orcs mana ect in the tournament which saves space)
Get not more production than you need and keep space to an absolute minimum. do not build wasted space like MA or barracks, and maybe you might get away without a trader as well. (tho this might interfere with aquiring the correct buildings)
Do not give neighourly help and get rid of your bonus relics by leveling, then destroy rebuild ect of wonders.

Goals 0 relic bonus (you do not need it for alternative production buildings)
0 Wonderlevels
Absolute minimum of expansions, and those you do get have to be premium (go spire?)

This should get your costs in the tournament to near chapter 1 levels

When we look at a chapter 8 town, with only 21 expansions in total (6 base +15 premium we see these costs

Provincie 500
24.000 coins
2400 supplies
310 T1
230 T2
150 T3

These are very reasonable numbers that might actualy be possible to aquire in decent numbers.
And those coins / supply needs in a pinch are also very easy to aquire with a little bit of questing in numbers much greater then required so limited questing only.

Off course this is looking up the edges of possibilities but yes it surely is possible.
I also wonder with these numbers how much more expansions you can get away with before it no longer has a net gain.
I just grabbed a value I liked, but a much larger city might be possible as long as you keep that relic bonus at 0.
You would need to run some simulations to figure that out.
https://en.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/upcoming-tournament-changes.12925/post-81612


just for lolz your mana plant / gum tree would provide 178 t3 per day/21 hours which is 77% of what you need to pay off province 50 using only a single square. which is very resonable. 1 expansion would provide 178*25=4450 t3 per day so 2-3 expansions would be enough to pay for 60-80 provinces

Endless scrolls 690 on 2 squares, you need little of that, then cross trade for t1 as you need very little compared to big players. they could take that tiny bit easily and you can see an insane tourney killer on negotiating alone with little effort, very little effort indeed.
https://en.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/upcoming-tournament-changes.12925/post-81614

To build up an account like this takes a lot of time (tho time boosters from spire can help a huge amount in unlocking more provinces)
Especially to aquire all the set parts and premium expansions if you go the freebee route.
Tho additional worlds with 9 on US could make it pretty fast to get the diamonds.

But it would absolutly slay the competition in those 6 tournaments you play, and that with only logging in once or twice a day

I think having a 0 relic boost is unrealistic to maintain, so why not give it max boost and a few less expansions placed?
the mountain halls bonus isnt in the equasion right?

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

You may be able to maintain the amount of orcs while training orc-strategists, but that does not take into account any catering.

I don't need to cater.

 

[EarthbornIcarus]

I would like a clear explanation or a graphic chart as well...all my members are asking how the squad upgrades affect their tourney etc.
I would like it if Inno would be transparent in its explanations. It would be wonderful to see a chart.

Having said that- I like the new style, and am grateful for less clicking, as it affects my hands. Many players have expressed wanting Inno to cut back on the clicks for everything....

But aside from the pain over-clicking causes....
I can/will easily adjust to the new style, and take it in stride. Its still fairly easy for me to do 20-30 provinces or more but I don't attempt to do 8000 points in tourney like some members do! LOL

 

[Pheryll]

I would like a clear explanation or a graphic chart as well...all my members are asking how the squad upgrades affect their tourney etc.
I would like it if Inno would be transparent in its explanations. It would be wonderful to see a chart.

Squad upgrades do not affect tourney any more than other researches do. If it is a mandatory research (another research has it as a prerequisite), then it will increase your tournament squad size, if it is not a mandatory research, then it will have no impact on the tourney difficulty.

The general formula is: exponential function(research) * linear function(city size) * linear function(AW levels). There is a further multiplier of your tournament diagonal (1st diagonal is just 1st province 1st star (1-1), 20th diagonal is 20-1, 19-2, 18-3, 17-4, 16-5, and 15-6).

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

I've auto-fought every battle so far this tournament, as I've always done. I don't need to manually fight in order to beat 5 squads of heavy units. Send in my mages and call it a day. Likewise for 4 squads. But depending on the breakdown of those 4 squads and what the 5th unit is, I'll send in either archers or mages. Still auto fighting. The battles besides that depend a lot on what the units are, but if it looks messy I just skip it. Nothing in Elvenar is worth enough of my time to use the manual battle system.

for me this is not an option,
Yes I might win, but the losses would be so incredibly high that I would be done with the tournament around province 20-25.

If you have to send in SS of 30x your SS and you loose 2 squads in the tournament, than that is 60 real squads. at that rate your done for in just a few battles, if manually you can control those losses to 10-20% of 1 squad then the losses will be 3-6 real squads, that is a lot more sustainable.

I own near all expansions and ~850 wonderlevels, In this new tournament I am screwed beyond reason so I have no other option.

That why I went for a 3-4h tournament run to 12-14h

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

I think having a 0 relic boost is unrealistic to maintain, so why not give it max boost and a few less expansions placed?
the mountain halls bonus isnt in the equasion right?

It's only 8 relics per 9 provinces you need to get rid of, so it ain't that hard, that is doable with wonder upgrades.

As for the why?

2,400

1,800

1,200

T1 310->2400
T2 230->1800
T3 150->1200

The cost reduction you get for a limited relic bonus is huge
310 T1 at province 50 is a joke, but 2400 is way to much. then you need to much production.

 

[hvariidh gwendrot]

i play on 8 worlds and founded my fellowship on same 8 worlds and have always set 1600 as a personal goal for members to achieve as they grow, each member is responsible to set their own pace so growth is enjoyable and comfortable .. getting the 10 chests is still as easy as it was before .. players that were doing 4k+ seem to still be putting in those personal scores and everyone else is getting in theirs .. 10 chests is still 10 chest .. what is unanimous from the teams is that the 11th chest being an additional 10k for 1 RR spell and 10kp is really stupid,

 

[Deleted User - 4750465]

Is it true that optional squad size research impacts event buildings that provide troops negatively? I believe those are unit based and not based on squad size. The AWs are based on squad size, so that wouldn't be impacted.

Although, if the tourney and spire have nothing to do with squad size then I guess this doesn't really matter??