edeba
Well-Known Member
This is a serious problem. The whole design is wrong as players should NEVER be thinking this way...
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Your Elvenar Team
Tournament Changes
- Thread starter helya
- Start date
edeba
Well-Known Member
This would be why there's never been more negative feedback on a change in all of Elvenar's history... If you look at the numbers from the next chapter, it makes no sense to do it all. I really liked this game and feel quite discouraged by the changes.
I actually should thank Inno because it really would be in my best interest to move and they certainly are putting me into that mind frame.
AtaguS
Well-Known Member
These changes punish players for progressing and they remove many choices and strategies which in my opinion were the bedrock of why this game was so much fun. So, growth and strategy nerfed? How is this a logical business decision in a game where growth and strategy
are a couple of its best features?
Instead, seems Inno wants us to bypass any standard feature of their game design and just eat from the fruit of (purchase from the tree of) events and gambling in the spire. Where's the strategy and planning, remodeling and growing? There are brainless games out there that cost less in time and money if zoning out is what I'm after.
Remember when we would eagerly unlock culture tech in the tree to place some building offering an upgrade? Now I have event buildings in my storage from 3 events ago which still offer way more than any culture building in the tech tree, or craftable in the MA. And most of these buildings I wasn't even trying to get, they just amass as I'm opening chests to earn artifacts...Remember planning and working to get the rune shards to build or level up a certain AW? Now your best move may be to tear it down.
When a fantasy building game's best strategy is not to build...they have lost their way. No wonder players are packing it in. I'm still finding fun here and there and the fellowship aspect is great but it is obvious Inno just put an intentional expiration date on progressing. Since it will be a shame to let the game go when I hit that expiration, given how much time and real money I've invested over the years...I will certainly not be putting any more money toward it and would likely advise newer cities not to either.
are a couple of its best features?
Instead, seems Inno wants us to bypass any standard feature of their game design and just eat from the fruit of (purchase from the tree of) events and gambling in the spire. Where's the strategy and planning, remodeling and growing? There are brainless games out there that cost less in time and money if zoning out is what I'm after.
Remember when we would eagerly unlock culture tech in the tree to place some building offering an upgrade? Now I have event buildings in my storage from 3 events ago which still offer way more than any culture building in the tech tree, or craftable in the MA. And most of these buildings I wasn't even trying to get, they just amass as I'm opening chests to earn artifacts...Remember planning and working to get the rune shards to build or level up a certain AW? Now your best move may be to tear it down.
When a fantasy building game's best strategy is not to build...they have lost their way. No wonder players are packing it in. I'm still finding fun here and there and the fellowship aspect is great but it is obvious Inno just put an intentional expiration date on progressing. Since it will be a shame to let the game go when I hit that expiration, given how much time and real money I've invested over the years...I will certainly not be putting any more money toward it and would likely advise newer cities not to either.
shimmerfly
Well-Known Member
Well said!
Merlyns Apprentice
New Member
I like the changes the spire is balanced better to yo can actually fight instead of using goods.
Moysha The Dendrophile
New Member
The worst thing here is the fact that Inno is not loyal to its most loyal customers - players who are playing for several years. I am playing for only a year and consider myself a new player and probably can even get some benefits from this change. But still I think that this Inno's move is a serious error. Those who are really understand what you are trying to do will also understand that they cannot rely on your loyalty anymore in future. You have decided to make a bad move now - you will do it again. And playing such a long game without a trust to game developer is not choice smart people will do. You are trying to break the main concept of this game - very slow progress which was attracting special sort of players. You are trying to get more new players and get some new easy money from them but you will loose the core idea of the game and Elvenar from being a special great game will turn into one of million of pieces of trash which fills google play.
Making such things often has its consequences. For example please check what had happen to CCP Games (Eve Online developer) when they decided to make some crap with walking in stations instead of working on things community was waiting from them.
Making such things often has its consequences. For example please check what had happen to CCP Games (Eve Online developer) when they decided to make some crap with walking in stations instead of working on things community was waiting from them.
GlamDoll
Well-Known Member
Everything you said was just YES! So much this! But this part right here ^^^
I can't get on board with it. So many things could be done. Increase grid space of the city. Lower the prices to a reasonable amount for premium expansions. This may entice players to buy & place some, so that they don't have pages on end of the past few Events or more in inventory! Of course, Inno would have to do a 180 on not penalizing gamers for doing so.
If Inno wants newer players to catch up to players that have been here a hot minute, or balance issues, or whatever all it is, then why not give more options & ways for it to be available? Instead of taking away strategy and so on. We could have event buildings from days gone by in FAs as a reward, game store, craft in MA....or Inno could do a 'Special' Event every so often & bring them back. The sky is the limit really.
Imagine if that kind of effort was put into the game like the artwork & animation. @.@
This is just all wrong! I didn't start playing a city building game so I could demolish much of it!
>...>
Enevhar Aldarion
Oh Wise One
When players get so focused on the optional parts of the game, and not on the core building part of the game, maybe the players have lost their way. Maybe Inno needs to look again at the Spire and tournament and figure out why some players think they are more important than advancing their game at all and then make changes/nerfs to them, so that they again become secondary to moving into the next chapter. I like the tournament and Spire, but I am not about to stall my city because of them. I will leave that for the fringe element to worry about.
AtaguS
Well-Known Member
The tournament has always been touted as the fastest way to progress your city, due to the kp and other rewards handed out for playing. building up your city and playing the tourney are not at odds with each other.
I think calling those players who have strategized and designed their cities to do well in the tournaments a fringe element is a stretch. I am hearing that it has not been your focus. I'm also seeing a good number of posters on this thread for whom it was.
AtaguS
Well-Known Member
Couldn't agree more. But I perhaps should have been more specific when I said the best strategy was to tear down...I was reacting specifically to the talk on this thread of players pulling down their AWs to offset the difficulty they now add to the tournaments.
Great places to start in my opinion!
I also think - side note here - that larger cities who benefited from doing well in previous tournaments are having to choose now between re-aligning their cities for the purpose of continuing to do well in tournaments (requiring big adjustments like tearing down AWs and/or building more armories, adjusting their play schedules, etc) or changing their game strategies to not benefit from the tournaments as much. Either choice drives a player in a specific direction without leaving much wiggle room for choice.
GlamDoll
Well-Known Member
I should have been more clear as well. I also meant AWs (Minus some overkill of culture that Soggy & others helped me with recently on GlamDoll).
I have said it before here & I will say it again...I don't think my Event buildings in inventory should trump AWs. (Especially special Event buildings). Now they are trumped further still, in my opinion.
Well, I just threw a bunch of stuff at the wall hoping anything might stick, but thank you! I so love this game & it is becoming increasingly difficult to ignore the changes, etc.
And this was the biggest draw to me in my beginning. (At that time, I had no idea how gorgeous the game was, seeing I was a newb in chapter 1)...
Without having that kinda flexibility with strategy & all, IDK if I would have stuck around long enough to even see how pretty the game is.
Perfect 10 makeup Inno! Now, if we could have more than Glam? TYVM!
EZ/GlamDoll
AtaguS
Well-Known Member
Oh no! Hahaha!...the AW hit does get me down to be sure. That said I'm only in chapter 15 so there's time still to enjoy the perks of this change. I feel for players in chapter 16 who are hitting those walls.
Heymrdiedier
Active Member
Its plain simple: tournaments fill the months when there are no new chapter. It gives us something to work on and improve our citys during calm times. They have tried making the last chapters slower, so that there is less downtime between chapters, but it just resulted in people getting bored by the too slow tempo.
So tournaments give you something to do 100% of the time, events can keep you bussy for 25% of the time, and a new chapter, well thats like 2 months every half year so 33% of the time. If there is nothing to do, people will just find another game to keep them busy
edeba
Well-Known Member
Game players tend to play their games for years, and they haven't considered the longer term consequences. Will I ever start another game from Inno? Not on your life. If you check deeper into the business end of their website they talk about integrity and I almost tossed my cookies reading that. It is a business model that is non-transferable. I can not move my game to another provider who isn't so intent on screwing players over, so in the short term they lose a few that this just becomes the final straw, but over the longer term, their biggest spenders move on to game made by other developers. I remember Castleville had an absolutely massive decline in players and revenues and the developers really screwed the players there as well. I haven't played one of their games since and I have specifically avoided them as a company and with what they've done with the tournament, I feel the same way about Inno.
This game has some very good design features that I think gives it incredible staying power, the tournament and spire. Setting up a computer enemy for battle as opposed to other players makes it so no one ends up being so slaughtered they quit because it is just no fun, and it probably reduces conflict between players.
I missed the section on optional and the implied required parts of the game. Oh, that might be your game fringe element...
I think you've hit on a core problem with what they've done in terms of the degree to which they've tied tournament and spire difficulty to AW levels. It would be interesting to do an analysis of the breakeven point between a special event building and how many levels you actually need to get onto an AW, and for sure, some event buildings are more powerful than the AWs at all levels, and probably where they've nerfed the AW benefits at higher levels, an event building could potentially become more powerful that a high level AW, depending on the breakeven. But it is super hard to evaluate because some AW benefits are super powerful in some chapters, but later become terrible, for example, hero's forge gives a wonderful level of orcs relative to how many you can get from armories early, and then later that aspect of its benefit is absolutely crushed.
Clusseau
Active Member
hm-
It seems clear, many senior players will be grinding down, (and will soon be out), due to this tournament.
The changes are INNO's idea of "balancing", in favor of newer players.
But, the Newer, (currently happy) players will soon see the path they are on- and will fall away as well.
In Forums, there have been MANY specific suggestions how to make Tournament changes work,
and MANY other suggestions (=apart from Tournament) to address INNO's quest for "balancing".
Advancement should Never be punished. Never, Ever- Hear me INNO?? Now FIX IT!!
And (INNO)- while youre "Wondering where your Thumb Is"....
Just take MIst Walkers OUT of enemy rotation!!
Dont figure out how to tweak them- dont look for some Compensating adjustment- Just Take Them OUT, NOW!
Worry about the Other Stuff Later;
When battle slots require 15 or 20 squads to Fill, we cant have a Fresh-out-of-Bed Mist Walker come by and Pop them before we can even Scout the battle! That must be about the Easiest thing there could be- to decide, and to DO.... so DO IT NOW!! =RFN!
It seems clear, many senior players will be grinding down, (and will soon be out), due to this tournament.
The changes are INNO's idea of "balancing", in favor of newer players.
But, the Newer, (currently happy) players will soon see the path they are on- and will fall away as well.
In Forums, there have been MANY specific suggestions how to make Tournament changes work,
and MANY other suggestions (=apart from Tournament) to address INNO's quest for "balancing".
Advancement should Never be punished. Never, Ever- Hear me INNO?? Now FIX IT!!
And (INNO)- while youre "Wondering where your Thumb Is"....
Just take MIst Walkers OUT of enemy rotation!!
Dont figure out how to tweak them- dont look for some Compensating adjustment- Just Take Them OUT, NOW!
Worry about the Other Stuff Later;
When battle slots require 15 or 20 squads to Fill, we cant have a Fresh-out-of-Bed Mist Walker come by and Pop them before we can even Scout the battle! That must be about the Easiest thing there could be- to decide, and to DO.... so DO IT NOW!! =RFN!
StarLoad
Well-Known Member
That's your well-known opinion and not a matter of fact.
Oh, since you think they are a bad thing, then they must be nerfed... got it.
Again you call out anyone that does not play by your rules and way of thinking.
Best and most important comment ever .....
Enevhar Aldarion
Oh Wise One
Funny how my little opinion made some people so defensive. Lol
Iyapo1
Well-Known Member
<----raises hand