Tournament disparities

[DeletedUser627]

I've written before about the Tournaments and rank score points - I'm not a fan. In general, because we're competing for a limited number of points - and this is a huge change in Elvenar. Rather than equitable opportunities - where every player receives the identical awards for identical performances - now we have limited awards for variable performance.

Now that we've seen a few Tournaments, here's the illustration:

Last week it took 35,500 Tourney points to win the 850 rank points.
This week it took 28,500 Tourney points to win the same 850.
That's a difference of 7000 Tourney points.​

7000 points represent a minimum of 48 battles - time plus troop losses. 48 Battles could represent 400 Sorc III losses - the equivalent of 30 Barracks hours!

So, same reward - but hugely varying costs. By the luck of the draw, one player pays more, another less. (Not to mention that the player who can't play 5 days in a row doesn't get anything at all, because the Tournaments have to be jammed into a weeklong format, rather than like regular play).

If we're going to play this way, well, let's get to it and turn Elvenar into a competitive roulette wheel. The first people to build a new building should be able to do so at the early-bird price...while subsequent players should pay a "late" penalty. While we're at it, let's set up every upgrade on a lottery basis: open your upgrade and surprise! it may be cheap, it may be expensive. Who cares!

If these ideas aren't appealing to you, then you get the problem with the Tournament awards. I'm not saying that Tournaments themselves are bad...but the way they've attached competitive rank score is a poor choice for a game that's supposed to be about cooperative PvE. Most players will never even have a chance at these rewards, since any form of competition will always be won by the big cities. And, thanks to Tournaments and the Wonders they fund, big cities will grow exponentially faster.

 

[DeletedUser61]

Most players will never even have a chance at these rewards, since any form of competition will always be won by the big cities.

The Achievers are always going to have the highest scores anyway, because that's their thing.

The REAL question is whether, or not, their effort benefits the other folks in the game.

• If my Tournament points are higher BECAUSE I have a strong neighbor, that's a benefit to me.
• If my Ancient Wonders level more quickly BECAUSE people are snipping, that's a benefit to me.

we're competing for a limited number of points

This provides the Achiever class with an additional incentive, and for the rest of the players the extra points are just gravy anyway.

So long as I don't "lose" anything that I've ALREADY acquired, I'm happy. Lost opportunities don't really effect what I'm interested in accomplishing.

I'm quite content with staying out of the meadow when the elephants are around.

 

[DeletedUser43]

what good does a city score do for ya?

It is fun. It is exciting. It is rewarding. It is challenging. It is difficult. It takes thought and planning. I could go on and on. Some folks enjoy scores a great deal. I can show you many instances of games in which scoring is very important to a lot of the players.

 

[DeletedUser627]

@Katwijk I can see where, if you're coming to Elvenar from one of those marauding games, it's a relief to open Elvenar and find your game intact. Who cares if there's some competition, right? If it doesn't hurt you outright, it's no big deal.

I liked Elvenar because it was an escape from competition, from "the rich get richer", and from luck determining outcome. During the past 6 months, all 3 of those variables have begun to change. This is a trend. As you excel at the algorithms, I've been successful at identifying trends. We are seeing a trend away from pure PvE and toward inter-personal competition. I think we should identify it and consider the ramifications.

I come from a place that city score really has no meaning, that city score doesn't produce more goods, it doesn't make it easier on my quests, and it certainly doesn't help my supplies.. just saying that number "city score" doesn't do squat for me. I also get to some of you have a 2million city score is important, but if you can't fight your way out of a wet box, or help your fellowship and neighbors with goods (fair/unfair).. what good does a city score do for ya?

Well, I get that you're not into score and have some disapproval..but what does that have to do with a post where I'm advocating against adding scores for higher players?

********************

And, for anyone reading this who doesn't have an Arendyll city - I personally love scoring. I'll even crassly say that, thus far in the game, I'm the best at maximizing scores. My end-of Dwarven city scored highest yet (while remaining balanced among all goods and fully functional), and my end of Fairy city is 10k higher than any other non-snail city.

But so flipping what. As a player who likes the challenge of scoring, you'd think that I'd be massively in favor or the Tournament rank points. But I'm not, because they're not equitable.

Tournament rank scoring would be equitable only if it were totally restructured:

Tournaments could keep the same Provinces and Levels. When a player gets a specific number of Tournament points - call it a Goal, they automatically receive a reward (the same reward for every player). Then the Tournament points accrue toward overall rank. After each Goal, players can opt to repeat that Goal or proceed to more difficult fights for higher Goals (this keeps things interesting for all sizes of cities).

Next, developers can keep the "cool down" periods, but the Tournament itself becoming ongoing and progressive. This way, players can play at their own speed and convenience - just like the rest of Elvenar play. Play through to a Goal at your own speed, then repeat or move forward.

Players don't compete against other directly. There's a score board, like the rank board, where progress is posted. Basically, players just work through the Tournaments, gaining points, and accruing ongoing Tournament rank and overall rank scores as rewards.
​

This would mean that Tournaments are no longer just for "Achievers' - everyone can participate, at their own pace, according to how much or how little they want to fight. They can see their progress as they go along. No points disparately awarded to big cities, no pressure to play during set hours...just fighting within the context of how we like to play Elvenar. At the pace of a Builder game, not of a fighter game.

I'm fighting in the Tournaments now, winning points here and there...but it's not satisfying. Where's the thrill of winning a reward against players who don't have an equal chance of winning? We now have a class system - players who can possibly win some Tournament points, and players who can't.

​

 

[DeletedUser43]

Yes Frostwyrm. This game has turned into a place where you can just buy your way to the top ever since the Dwarves started. Doesn't mean I don't enjoy the scoring aspect of the game tremendously.

 

[DeletedUser1016]

Does anyone know what the reward is that is listed in the popup notification at the end of the tournament?

 

[DeletedUser43]

I'd like to know too. I have the same question.

 

[Maz Mellor]

<kvetching> I would just like some neighbors who actually play in the tournaments. It's not that much fun to be literally the only one in the neighborhood playing. </kvetching>

I think I've probably posted this same complaint about five different times on five different threads now. Sorry about that. You'd think it would get less satisfying with repetition, but somehow it doesn't!

Also: since the upcoming tournament is marble, my T1 boost on both Aren and Win, I think I may resort to begging my actively playing neighbors via private messages. (Head's up, actively playing neighbors: begging to follow.)

 

[DeletedUser]

The tournament rolls with the same philosophy as the city building: want scores, no diamonds >>>spend more time and effort; no time, want to relax but still want higher scores >>>spend more diamonds.
The way it's designed is to make people with the score obsession spend more (time or money. Maybe, first is time, then, money when you're tired)

1000 scores max per week (48k/a year) won't bring us anywhere nearer to the top rank players with cities full of giant snails. (And there will be a lot more upgrades)

Smaller cities have a choice to spend more to grow faster (since there's a land-lock situation at the end of each age). I've seen a lot of new names rise up and pass by as well as a lot of familiar names fall and disappear.

When I started the game, I rarely saw 50% diamond promo and never more. But new cities have seen 70% promo and a choice to get 1100 diamonds plus 1 free builder at $10 while I had to spend $5 just to get my 3rd builder. That's their "late penalty!"

I understand there're changes that need to be made and cannot demand too much for a so-called "fair play." There will always be someone who pays more and someone who pays less but all are our choices.

If you want an "early-bird price" for buildings, will it be fair to the new players who come now when we already had all of the buildings?

Competitive or cooperative is the attitude we pick. If this game is supposed to be a cooperative game, why do people have to be so competitive about ranking?
Why is the tournament supposed to be a competitive thing regardless its cooperative aspect: "work with the neighbors to gain more rewards- the real main rewards of the tournament: relics."? (Although I'd say good luck with the neighbors. I played by myself most of the time...)

In general, my best strategy for this game is "relax and enjoy my own achievements"
Also, I'm not a big Elvenar funder so I'm content with my place on page 5 or 6.

 

[DeletedUser627]

If you want an "early-bird price" for buildings, will it be fair to the new players who come now when we already had all of the buildings?

I was being facetious - sorry if that wasn't clear!

 

[DeletedUser1016]

I'd like to know too. I have the same question.

Bobby - I submitted a support ticket asking this question, and the response indicated that they'll make an announcement once the contents can be confirmed by the development team. My interpretation is that it's not a "reward" yet, and it's just a place holder at the moment?