Trade cycling

[NightshadeCS]

I can see one advantage to the trade-cycling method. It will get me on the trader more often. When the FA required 100 silk, elixir, planks, I was on there all the time posting those little trades for my fellowship to take for badges. That helped me to see what was needed.

I have over 500 million of all regular goods and can go months without every needing a trade. Consequently, I sometimes forget to go to the trader and sweep up trades. This can sometimes go for days, as the longer I forget to do it, the easier it is to forget! Haha!

However, a message to me from a smaller player would have the same effect. It would then be in the front of my mind to go and try to help them out, which I actually enjoy doing.

The end-all seems to me that it is just so clunky to offer all those little trades. Neighborhoods are so vastly different that it would be useless in some. And, as was pointed out before, I doubt we could get it into widespread usage since 99% of players never even glance at the Forum.

 

[Dew Spinner]

^^
That wasn't me. I'm still here. Still waiting...

Are you really trying to say that no one said or implied that this would be to time consuming? You really are not giving this gift to me are you? Or are we now going to delve into another spitting hairs discussion over the meaning of said VS implied, come on now, this is getting seriously weak. Everyone, as in the global everyone, throws out all these excuses that they know they have thrown out there and now they are going to say...find it. Instead of me finding it how about you reiterate the EXACT excuses that You, as in the singular You, have used so far and we will see if they match any on the list I am keeping of all the previous excuses used, if you come up with a new one that I have missed, I will be sure to add it.

 

[samidodamage]

Are you really trying to say that no one said or implied that this would be to time consuming?

I'm serious. I don't see anywhere that was said or implied.
I don't see where I made any excuses for anything. I straight up said I would not do it and I gave my reasons. If you see something else from me, please point it out at the same time you point out where anyone said or implied this was a time issue.

 

[mucksterme]

How many had traders built? Any that didn't would have zero benefits from the OP idea but could have gotten something from a message.
Also, small cities get abandoned for a variety of reasons, not just struggling. One is that this game is advertised in bizarre ways and many players arrive finding a game very different than expected.

One other reason for small abandoned cities.
Some players place cities on worlds just so they can look at cities there. Or send messages to people there.

And I'm joining the hot cocoa people. This seems to have become one person wanting to debate everyone else until they get tired of talking to a wall. Then he can say, "See I'm obviously right or they'd be like me and never shut up"

 

[Deleted User - 849192770]

lol

 

[Silver Lady]

I'm with you, Kekune. Some people are determined to misunderstand everyone and devolve this into insanity. I'm outta here. Let's go get some hot chocolate.

I recommend adding peppermint schnapps. Two benefits: 1) taste like a York Peppermint Pattie and 2) nothing better that chocolate and alcohol for relaxing.

 

[Kekune]

I recommend adding peppermint schnapps. Two benefits: 1) taste like a York Peppermint Pattie and 2) nothing better that chocolate and alcohol for relaxing.

Brilliant. I was just debating between hot chocolate and something stronger, and you've solved my dilemma. Thanks.

 

[Lelanya]

OMG we are arguing with an 'expert' who has played for 3 months and 1 week, who is (deleted adjective) criticizing the POV of a player with 8 weeks experience.
@Alram the reason that I asked you all of those questions, is because they do make a difference to the overall well being of your city.
There are 8 realms on the US server and some are more active than others.
Starting on 'the rim' can make a big difference because it is the leading edge, where new players are added. You know you are on the rim because you hit an edge where there are no cities, and you can find out by zooming out, put the browser at 33%. I have been moved from one rim to another on two occasions.
A large active neighbor makes a big difference for a small player.

 

[Lelanya]

So remember my post earlier about unpleasant people getting a bad reputation? I think someone has proven my point admirably. Imagine arguing with Sami, who spends a lot of time on here answering questions.

 

[Dew Spinner]

OMG we are arguing with an 'expert' who has played for 3 months and 1 week, who is (deleted adjective) criticizing the POV of a player with 8 weeks experience.
@Alram the reason that I asked you all of those questions, is because they do make a difference to the overall well being of your city.
There are 8 realms on the US server and some are more active than others.
Starting on 'the rim' can make a big difference because it is the leading edge, where new players are added. You know you are on the rim because you hit an edge where there are no cities, and you can find out by zooming out, put the browser at 33%. I have been moved from one rim to another on two occasions.
A large active neighbor makes a big difference for a small player.

I have seen long term players have no clue on how to play the game well, so that point is moot. And I have read this forum for many months and watch the old guard run many new members trying to post ideas off the forum many times. Just because I won't go scurrying away quietly, like so many before doesn't make me a bad guy. I never said I was an expert but I do know lame excuses when I see them. I posted earlier that this was probably a dead thread because most posters had closed their mind to the idea before it even got off the ground. When all that is happening is one or two words of a post are being picked apart instead of offering constructive ideas, it's over. I thought for a moment that that might have changed but it immediately went back to looking for that one word to use to avoid having to think about a solution. That's too bad I was sure all the experienced players could have solved this problem but I guess experience isn't everything.

 

[Dew Spinner]

So remember my post earlier about unpleasant people getting a bad reputation? I think someone has proven my point admirably. Imagine arguing with Sami, who spends a lot of time on here answering questions.

Yes, god forbid anyone says anything contrary to any of the old guard. Especially since I have watched them run many new posters off the forum with their rude and condescending remarks. I will leave it at that, I said before this thread was dead and it is, no new ideas just excuses and bashing.

 

[SoggyShorts]

most posters had closed their mind to the idea before it even got off the ground.

Actually, we gave rational reasonable debate and found a bunch of issues with the idea.
The issues were not addressed to anyone's satisfaction.

On top of that, we found an example: Me. With zero low level players close enough to benefit at all from any trade I post due to the trader fee.

But all you've done the past 4 pages is "reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!" at everyone for not jumping on board a deeply flawed idea.

Perhaps it's not us with a closed mind?

 

[Dew Spinner]

Actually, we gave rational reasonable debate and found a bunch of issues with the idea.
The issues were not addressed to anyone's satisfaction.

On top of that, we found an example: Me. With zero low level players close enough to benefit at all from any trade I post due to the trader fee.

But all you've done the past 4 pages is "reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!" at everyone for not jumping on board a deeply flawed idea.

Perhaps it's not us with a closed mind?

My mind has been fully open the whole time and it has not been me who picks out one or two words of a post to pick apart because they don't have a legitimate case against the idea. I also think the idea would be sort of difficult to implement but hoped it would spur other ideas but it seems the only thing abundant here is snark and snide comments. This isn't an idea fostering forum, it's a let's see how bad we can rip the other poster kind of forum. I am surprised by how tolerant the mods are here, I have seen posters removed for far less on lots of other forums. I hope you are not suggesting that everyone's map is similar to yours'. I know I have posted data about my map but I never thought everyone's map was identical to mine.

 

[shimmerfly]

My mind has been fully open the whole time and it has not been me who picks out one or two words of a post to pick apart

Umm I object to this statement. Would you like me to quote all the posts that you've "picked apart" or argued about for the sake of making your " not enough time" point? Sami has never said anything even near that. On the contray she is one of the most helpful persons on this forum.
Never mind on that... it's silly.
No one has been rude to you without trying to point out the fallacies of why this would not work.
Soggy proved it.
I post many small trades because I like to help and do try to visit most of my neighbors every few days. I know who is new in my hood.
I know that player (if they chose to stay) will eventually become one of the those that will advance in the game and return the favor.
Every time I post a trade to even out my goods I do post small trades. 99.9 % of the time it is the larger player who takes the same goods in the larger numbers that scoop them all up, small included. That's okay and I appreciate it. What I believe is that you don't think we care about the newer players. We have simply played for a longer time and can see the benefits of....or not.. ..of some good suggestions that just won't work and try to point out why.
If you think that was snarky let me know, and I can show you what snarky really is

 

[Alram]

@Alram the reason that I asked you all of those questions, is because they do make a difference to the overall well being of your city.

I don't mind being asked questions. Thank you for explaining. I didn't have a trader when I got moved. I did get moved to the rim, I think. I don't have any neighbors to the east of my city, just coins. I'm on mobile so I had to come to the forum to find a fellowship, the first one wasn't a good fit and the second one turned out to be awesome.( pm me if you need a great FS on Felyndral).
My point is that new players are doing fine. We aren't quitting. We are here and we didnt get gobbled up by sharks. Let's go find the cocoa people, I hear they have schnapps!

 

[Lelanya]

@Alram, perfect, that is exactly how the game is supposed to be played.

So going back to my very first post here, if you need trades for 50 or 100 of each good, to build up your supplies and gold, you would ask your fellows on chat. Not everyone has the experience of dwelling on the rim, and knows how few active neighbors some of us really do have.

 

[ajqtrz]

I don't think this is the right platform for a verbose manifesto but that is just my opinion, carry on as I knew you would anyway. TLR

Again, using words without understanding their actual meaning: verbose: "using or expressed in more words than are needed. " What words aren't needed in my posts?

Manifesto: "a public declaration of policy and aims," What policy am I advocating, or what aims?

And of course, logically speaking " TLR" means you didn't read it, so how can you critique something you didn't read? In fact, the idea that you suggest it's a "verbose manifesto" is probably due to an emotional response to something you find disagreeable but can't say exactly why-- perhaps because you didn't read it? I would suggest that your passions can hardly be considered reason for my persuasion. If you think they should be, do try to make the case as it would be interesting if you could do so. Feel free to start a new thread on why your feelings should automatically be mine.

It certainly does feel that way, but I think there's still a chance for this to morph into something useful.
There have been alternatives suggested in this thread that we could expand upon and discuss. It doesn't have to be just about the OP idea of trade cycles since the actual point was to help small players and the method is secondary to that. (this is why I stand by the unimportance of the word/definition of "unfair". It really doesn't matter.)

How about a discussion of what constitutes the bases of declaring a trade fair or not? Or perhaps, when and if communicators should at least acknowledge when they may have overstated the case and failed to use qualifiers out of respect for those who may disagree with them? Doing so actually says, "I've thought of the objections and out of respect I'll include that extra word or two so AJ and others don't have to clarify my view and show how it's an overstatement and waste everybody's time doing so?" (From your perspective if you thikthe time is "wasted" or notm of course). Ten seconds of reflexive thought can prevent a lot of things, and a few extra words is hardly a "verbose manifesto," as someone else has suggested, right?

And finally, my point is still valid and I'd still like to see you respond to the idea that production costs are the right measure of "fairness' in a trade. That is not splitting hairs, it's challenging you to defend a public claim you've made. Of course you may think a person can just make a claim and as long as most people agree the minority opinions shouldn't get an airing. I suspect that in this forum though, most would say that minority opinions should be allowed to speak and should be discussed. Just my sense of the matter, of course. I could be wrong.

AJ

 

[ajqtrz]

No offense, but you could be checking them right now so you don't miss any of the important ones! And the same could be done with the OP idea! Not wanting to do something is not the same as, can't.

Here's the thing. A visitor arrives. How long will that visitor notification be listed? Through 60 notifications. So If 60 trades are taken in a matter of minutes after the notification, it's gone. Of course, if you limit your trades to 30 at a time you have a better chance of catching that visitor before he/she is gone. But the OP's suggestion is not to reduce the number of trades you post but to increase them. Thus, the chances of losing that vistor notification increases.

In addition, to know how often to check you have to figure the average length of time a visitor stays on the list and be sure to check much more often than that, depending on how many trades you have posted. So "checking them right now" really means, "checking them often," and might mean, "checking them every X minutes" -- X being smaller the more trades you post. And even then you could, theoretically, not catch the visitor. The OP's suggestion increases the likelihood that this would happen.

AJ

 

[samidodamage]

minority opinions should be allowed to speak and should be discussed.

Absolutely. If you search for 'unfair trades' with user name @ajqtrz you'll find 20 posts on the subject going back to January 2019. There's even an entire thread you started dedicated to the subject of the economics of trading. I'd say you've spoken your opinion on the subject and it has been beaten to death discussed. Are you sure you want to 'discuss' the subject or are you looking for someone (anyone) to agree with your opinion?
Apologies to @Eudaemonia for continuing to participate in derailing the point of your thread here: how to help small cities and retain more new players.

 

[Dew Spinner]

How, pray tell, do I 'Clear' those notifications? They simply drop off over time afaik...
Edit to add: they are also pushed off by new notifications, the same way they push off visit notifications from neighbors.

There it is, picking one word out of the post to keep the argument going. Clearing as in clearing a task from your to do list