Trader

[DeletedUser]

how about giving players an option to designate goods for trade to fellowship members only. seems to me the purpose of a fellowship is for the benefit of members this option would allow that. There is a similar option in The West. Use that as a model

 

[DeletedUser]

I want this... I want this so bad. Unless you are an Archmage, I'm not sure it is fully understood why it is an issue, but constantly having a high level neighbor snatch the trades you place for low level fellows is maddening. If I had the ability to place an even amount of trades for neighbors and fellows, where everyone would be have a more equal chance to accept, I would be ecstatic.

 

[DeletedUser]

Thanks Insanity for the reply. The point is why have a fellowship if being a member has no benefit. Isn't that its soul purpose. As I mentioned this system worked very well in The West

 

[DeletedUser1269]

I like this idea also. As mentioned, one of the main benefits would be to allow a post to benefit a fellowship member who you are trying to help grow and not have it sniped by someone outside the fellowship. You can filter the trades already, which is basically the opposite (showing only trades within the fellowship that are available), so why not the reverse?

 

[DeletedUser406]

I agree, we should have the option to do either, so if we wish to outsource then ok but if we want to do strictly for the fellowship we should be able to. as an AM it is very tough especially in the newer worlds to keep players or get them moving when things stall when you need to help them and the trades get scooped up by others before they can get to them, it really should be OUR CHOICE how to trade

 

[DeletedUser1161]

This suggestion concerns me because fellowships are cliquish and I think people will tend to restrict a high proportion of trades to their fellowships. One bad/greedy neighbor will basically ruin trades for everyone across a good-sized chunk of the map as people block all their trades from that person. What happens to new players without fellowships? Solo play is hard enough already without people blocking trades from neighbors.

If this is implemented, I think it needs to be done in concert with some major changes to how the trader displays trades from undiscovered players. I also think it might be good to have a limit on the number of fellowship-restricted trades or goods.

Also, not all neighbors who pick up favorable trades are trying to be greedy. Favorable trades in my neighborhood are people from my old fellowship, and I know they have some pretty serious trade problems and shortages. They're trying to get some goods for better than the 5:1 at the trader by posting trades that are favorable enough to be fair to undiscovered players. Usually they are offering my own boosted goods (which is why I left) but sometimes I can help them out with planks.

For the time being, we do already have a reasonable defense against greedy neighbors. If someone in your fellowship is stuck for lack of goods, ask them to send a message around the fellowship and post one-star trades. Your fellowship can pick up the unfair trades and help the player out while successfully avoiding the greedy neighbor.

 

[Deleted User - 312108]

To put some perspective on this - on Arendyll my fellowship is short on elixir mostly because the players who have that as their boosted good haven't progressed to the point that it is open or boosted. One of our more progressed players desperately needed elixirs, his neighborhood is rather empty other than another fellowship member. He asked for and posted trades for elixir. I posted similar trades of 3 star and because of my active neighbors, my trades were answered and I could turn around and trade with my fellow.

I do also work to trade with my neighbors. If you want your trades for a specific person or fellowship and you have neighbors who DO trade with you, drop them a note. Most likely they aren't trying to be greedy, but presumably if you post a trade you are in need of goods.

 

[DeletedUser]

For the time being, we do already have a reasonable defense against greedy neighbors. If someone in your fellowship is stuck for lack of goods, ask them to send a message around the fellowship and post one-star trades. Your fellowship can pick up the unfair trades and help the player out while successfully avoiding the greedy neighbor.

I am aware of this, but feel I shouldn't have to jump through hoops to make it possible. My fellows deserve to have the ability to accept trades without the guilt often caused by posting a bad trade.

 

[DeletedUser]

To put some perspective on this - on Arendyll my fellowship is short on elixir mostly because the players who have that as their boosted good haven't progressed to the point that it is open or boosted. One of our more progressed players desperately needed elixirs, his neighborhood is rather empty other than another fellowship member. He asked for and posted trades for elixir. I posted similar trades of 3 star and because of my active neighbors, my trades were answered and I could turn around and trade with my fellow.

I do also work to trade with my neighbors. If you want your trades for a specific person or fellowship and you have neighbors who DO trade with you, drop them a note. Most likely they aren't trying to be greedy, but presumably if you post a trade you are in need of goods.

This is a bit of a different situation, as we have the exact same boosts, and I have dropped him a note, but to no avail. It may be clique-ish, but I think the definition of a fellowship would be a clique, technically: A small, exclusive group of people.

 

[DeletedUser61]

My fellows deserve to have the ability to accept trades without the guilt often caused by posting a bad trade.

Arbitrage adds fluidity to the market. A and C may not have a feasible trade, but Trader B is holding a large inventory which allows him to sit in the middle and buffer trades for both A and C. Trader B is assuming some risk, after all he's tying up capital and he COULD end up eating a ton of excess goods, so he does need to make a bit of profit on each transaction.

• At worst, Trader B is sniping trades that you intended for somebody else, and then reposting them at a higher price
• At best, Trader B is helping A clear their excess inventory, which A can't seem to get rid of at a fair market price
• At best, Trader B is helping C cover their shortage at a price that's much better than what the Wholesaler offers

There's also a second dynamic that needs to be considered. Let's say Trader B's offers are all showing up with a radio button, and the 50% markup is killing me. If I visit Trader B's city, click on the map icon, and follow the blue arrow back to the edge of my discovered territory, I can rather quickly determine which sectors I'll need to scout and acquire to bridge the gap, and get rid of that pesky 50% markup.

• Your OWN boosted relics lie on the 11 o'clock to 5 o'clock map diagonal
• Your NON-boosted relics, and therefore your most valuable TRADING PARTNERS, will lie on the 1 o'clock to 7 o'clock diagonal

If Fellowship only trades were allowed, I would be blind regarding much of the trading activity in my own neighborhood, and I wouldn't have a clue that there was a major trader on the fringe of my discovered area.

 

[DeletedUser]

Perhaps u donot understand the concept. It is meant to give a fellowship the option of designating certain goods for trade within the fellowship only. It doesnot restrict the ability to trade in the open market with anyone. The trade rating system is absolutely stupid since u have only two options, accept the offer or not. There is no negotiation between seller and prospective buyer. Again ur missing the basic premise of a fellowship to help YOUR members not the entire world!
But thanks for the feedback.

 

[DeletedUser43]

I like this idea too. It is already happening that people have fellowship only trades, the only difference is that this makes what we are already doing easier and less of a pain in the neck. I like less pain. I support this idea.

 

[DeletedUser1161]

I am aware of this, but feel I shouldn't have to jump through hoops to make it possible. My fellows deserve to have the ability to accept trades without the guilt often caused by posting a bad trade.

Why would there be guilt associated with posting a one-star trade but not with accepting a three-star one? The outcome is identical. You get a boost from your fellows.

 

[Deleted User - 312108]

It depends on the purpose. Posting a 1 star trade by pre-arrangement is one thing, posting it in the general course makes it seem like the player is more interested in benefiting themselves rather than their fellowship/neighborhood. I think that's why the 1 or no star trades are frowned on in general. I won't trade for them on a typical basis unless the 1 star trade is due to the trader fee.

So many things are a matter of perception rather than intent.

 

[DeletedUser1161]

It depends on the purpose. Posting a 1 star trade by pre-arrangement is one thing, posting it in the general course makes it seem like the player is more interested in benefiting themselves rather than their fellowship/neighborhood.

Of course I meant a standing arrangement. My first fellowship told me to post a one-star trade and ask in chat or by mail if I needed anything. We had a fair trade policy in general, so we knew if a new player posted one-star it was a request for help even before the mail went around. I posted a couple one-star trades early in the game when I needed help, and accepted my fair share from new members later on.

We had three-star trades but as I mentioned earlier, they were largely an attempt to try to get more dust into the fellowship from neighbors or world trades.

Arbitrage adds fluidity to the market. A and C may not have a feasible trade, but Trader B is holding a large inventory which allows him to sit in the middle and buffer trades for both A and C. Trader B is assuming some risk, after all he's tying up capital and he COULD end up eating a ton of excess goods, so he does need to make a bit of profit on each transaction.

I just realized the fundamental problem. Some players are not viewing the trader as a free market because we can't give goods to friends or fellows. Three-star trades can either be a poor substitute for a gift system or serve the normal free market role. Unfortunately, there is no way to tell the difference. Even if your priority is to be helpful to your neighbors and fellows, sometimes being nice means leaving the three-star trades for someone else, while other times it means accepting as many as you can.

If Fellowship only trades were allowed, I would be blind regarding much of the trading activity in my own neighborhood, and I wouldn't have a clue that there was a major trader on the fringe of my discovered area.

We seem to be anticipating the same outcome, that players would default to restricting trades to their fellowships.

Maybe what we really need is a way to give goods to other players without involving the trader.

 

[DeletedUser61]

Maybe what we really need is a way to give goods to other players without involving the trader.

That can get ugly in a real hurry, because you're paving the way for push accounts.

• Posting ALL trades on the open market allows the well heeled players to hammer somebody who is TRYING to push goods.
• "Give" implies that the trade would be extremely one-sided, rather than the current 4:1 through 1:4 range, which pretty requires both parties to have a developed city, rather than playing a shell game.
• You need to think through all of the ways that Fellowship exclusive and "Gift" trades could be abused. You don't even want to go there.

 

[DeletedUser1161]

That can get ugly in a real hurry, because you're paving the way for push accounts.

• Posting ALL trades on the open market allows the well heeled players to hammer somebody who is TRYING to push goods.
• "Give" implies that the trade would be extremely one-sided, rather than the current 4:1 through 1:4 range, which pretty requires both parties to have a developed city, rather than playing a shell game.
• You need to think through all of the ways that Fellowship exclusive and "Gift" trades could be abused. You don't even want to go there.

Paranoia about push accounts is not a good justification for failing to provide a conflict-free avenue for giving goods to other players. Giving is an important social activity in MMOs for many players.

A shell game is perfectly feasible at 1:4 or even 1:2. Trading at 1:4 you can push 20K goods starting with only 20 in five trades. It's reasonable to assume Inno already has algorithms in place to detect that sort of trade activity since they actively shut down push accounts.

I don't think Elvenar is as fragile to gifts and abuse as you suggest. The only competition is rank, and you have to have factories to rank well anyway. You might be able to free up some supplies and coin by pushing goods to a city, but I don't think it's feasible to produce enough goods with one city to push two to top 100. It takes a lot of goods to purchase KP or conquer provinces beyond where troops are effective so the goods recipient would eventually bottleneck on research. Even if you could make enough goods with one city to support two, again it's fairly easy to detect a big one-way flow of goods.

What is fragile is neighborhood and world trade. We seem to be in complete agreement that fellowship-only trades would very likely remove the small amount of non-fellowship supply and demand economics that remains in the game.

 

[DeletedUser]

What is fragile is neighborhood and world trade. We seem to be in complete agreement that fellowship-only trades would very likely remove the small amount of non-fellowship supply and demand economics that remains in the game.

I would be curious to see if that would be the case. If fellowship-only trading is ever implemented, I plan to still place the same trades for neighbors, but I can understand the fear that many would not. I am hoping what I am experiencing is a rare issue, but the player in question has enough goods to buy out every trade I offer without leaving any for anybody else. My other active neighbors (all three of them! XD) are great.

 

[Deleted User - 312108]

I would like to see expanded trading. Some neighborhoods are complete wastelands, especially if you are at the edge of the map.
Being able to 'ally' and trade with selection of fellowships may also be nice.

 

[DeletedUser]

Thanks for all the feedback but don't go overthinking this thing. The exact same system is in use in several other INNO games including; Forge of Empires and The West, both of which I currently play. I have seen no abuses or so called pushing as some would claim. Remember this is NOT a market where u can bargain, its simply an exchange. If u have the requested goods fine, if not you are effectively pushed out of the market.