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    Your Elvenar Team

Training doesn't increase number of Units

Mykan

Well-Known Member
Notice in your screenshot that the enemy only has 4 stacks. So the fight is in your favour, if they had 5 squads then you would see their squad size is about 85. When they have less then 5 they scale it up and when they have more than 5 they scale it down. Otherwise the difficulty would change because 8 squads of size 100 is harder then 4 squads of size 100.

The highlight cells can be misleading as they show you units that are neutral and advantage against. In the case of your photo 5 golems or 5 orc strategists should have won with minimal issue, barring map issues. If 5 golems lost that fight on auto you are left with manual fighting or catering, once in a while a bad map layout can cause you to lose when you shouldn't. 5 sworddancers will show as decent, but may not be ideal, as they are close combat instead of ranged units and the counter unit specialises against light melee.

Something else you need to be mindful of at your stage of the game is the star rating of each troop type. In that photos all of your troops and the enemy are 2 star, so fairly even, in later rounds though you can find yourself up against 3 star enemies so they end up better in both quantity and quality. This difference also comes into play when choosing between your barracks troops and your specialty troops (orc strategist)
 
Notice in your screenshot that the enemy only has 4 stacks. So the fight is in your favour, if they had 5 squads then you would see their squad size is about 85.
So squad sizes change based on how many slots they have for squads, too?!

Something else you need to be mindful of at your stage of the game is the star rating of each troop type.
So I'm seeing this as like many layered...
First- the pentagon dealie- which is two--layers... basic stong vs thingy, with one being better than the other "strong vs", so like "lesser/greater strong vs"; then there's like "light vs heavy" for each unit type
Second - the stars thingy (showing research upgrade levels?- Sword dancer II, etc ??)
Third - Squad size maths...

That's all BEFORE I even get to terrain (which you almost never see unless you're on desktop AND manually fighting- and then you have to be a good tactical war game kinda player (I suck a chess and games like Axis & Allies cuz I'm NOT tactically minded) or anything else like AWs or items or whatev. o.0

The highlight cells can be misleading as they show you units that are neutral and advantage against. In the case of your photo 5 golems or 5 orc strategists should have won with minimal issue, barring map issues. If 5 golems lost that fight on auto you are left with manual fighting or catering, once in a while a bad map layout can cause you to lose when you shouldn't. 5 sworddancers will show as decent, but may not be ideal, as they are close combat instead of ranged units and the counter unit specialises against light melee.
I can't do Orc Strategists yet, but I'll keep golems in mind- I've got them. :) Thanks.

And wow... this is sooooo complicated... I am so gonna like get all MEGO about this (MEGO = My Eyes Gloss Over) trying to make heads or tails of it all. LOL
Wish the game SLOWLY introduced all this rather than "BAM! Here's the entire super convoluted, complicated, confusing combat all at once... oh and we'll sometimes secretly screw you over with terrain, too!" ROFL
 

mucksterme

Well-Known Member
So squad sizes change based on how many slots they have for squads, too?!
Think of it like this. They have a certain number of units to take into battle. For easy math, let's say 80.
If they use four squads that'd be 20 units per squad.
If they use eight squads it's 10 units per squad.
Personally my favorite is when there is just one mega squad.

And wow... this is sooooo complicated... I am so gonna like get all MEGO about this (MEGO = My Eyes Gloss Over) trying to make heads or tails of it all. LOL
Wish the game SLOWLY introduced all this rather than "BAM! Here's the entire super convoluted, complicated, confusing combat all at once... oh and we'll sometimes secretly screw you over with terrain, too!" ROFL
My personal recommendation. At your level I wouldn't fight much. Stick to bribing.
But keep training units. Get the military AWs when they become available. And skip the optional squad researches on the tech tree.
Then when you are ready to fight you'll be in a stronger position.
Also, if you get a chance at the Vallorian Valor buildings, place one or a few. Let them build up your army until you are ready for them.
 

Mykan

Well-Known Member
So squad sizes change based on how many slots they have for squads, too?!
Yes, difficulty is fixed for a province (once scouted) and a tournament (based on round). So the squad sizes scale based on enemy groups.

So I'm seeing this as like many layered...
First- the pentagon dealie- which is two--layers... basic stong vs thingy, with one being better than the other "strong vs", so like "lesser/greater strong vs"; then there's like "light vs heavy" for each unit type
Second - the stars thingy (showing research upgrade levels?- Sword dancer II, etc ??)
Third - Squad size maths...
Correct but the difficulty is in the below order.

  1. Squad size ratio (is your squad size bigger than theirs). For world map if they are double your size it is designed to be impossible to win
  2. Unit type
  3. Star rating - minor impact compared to other 2 factors
Honestly to keep it simple, just start with which is best troop for which tournament/province type. That will get you winning some fights and you will start to see the match-ups of what beats what, etc.
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
In the screen caps you loaded, you get to place five squads of 100 = 500 troops. The enemy has 4 squads of 102 = 408 troops. Their total strength is at 81.6% of yours. You have an 18% advantage, if everything is equal.

In that particular fight, your best bet would be 5 heavy ranged (golems) as they are (about) equal to the orc strategist and have a significant advantage over the archers. While light melee.(sword Dancers) seem to have an advantage over the archers, they get initiative, and unless there is terrain in the way, they will all get to hit you once before you get ot do anything. And their orc has a significant advantage over the light melee, even before you factor in strikeback.

My strategy (assuming I don't have orc strategists) would be all golems. Then it comes down to terrain. The archers won't do too much damage (but will give me a debuff that means I take more damage from subsequent hits), and my golems mostly get to move before the orc does. I would try to ensure that they move so that the orc can not reach them on his first attack, and maneuver so that once he moves forward, I can bring as many as possible of them to bear on him in one attack, because he is the greater threat (stronger vs me than the archers, and strikeback). I want to capitalize on the fact his strikeback is only once per round. If one of my golems attacks him each round, he gets to both attack me, and do a strikeback on me (with extra damage each time if one of the archers has weakened my defenses first). If three of my golems can hit him in one round, he only gets a strikeback on one of them, reducing the total damage he does by maybe 10-30%. And if I can hit his with one that hasn't been weekend, that's all the better as I'm doing more damage and taking less damage from his hits. If I know I can hit him four times, I might even choose not to hit him with the weakest of those four, but to use that on an archer and then use the other three to hit him.
 

NightshadeCS

Well-Known Member
Two first round fights- 0 star zones- from this past event. 100 vs 102. It does happen.


So scouting- what do you mean "timing" of the scouting? Can you clarify so I can try and get more favorable combat situations?
Also, all scouting techs up to Dwarves in one city and Orcs in the other are done. I don't skip techs entirely, I do them all before moving on. :)
He was referring to the timing of completing the "Advanced Scouts" tech in the tech tree, which is usually available at the beginning of each new chapter. It will decrease the scouting cost and difficulty of provinces.

The squad size upgrades are the techs he is referring to when talking about skipping. They make province fights easier because you have larger squads of troops. Weirdly, though, it often makes tournament fights harder, since enemy squad sizes are based on your squad sizes. It's a weird little quirk, so most of us in the know complete squad size upgrade in the tech tree up to a certain chapter, then stop completing them, as we have reached a point where we can slow down completing world map provinces (expanding our world map) and concentrate instead on tournaments.


EDIT: sorry if this is redundant. I didn't get to the second page of messages before posting, Ha!
 

Darielle

Well-Known Member
I posted screenshots I'd taken when trying to get help to figure out what to use to fight with. It says "Tournament squad size 100" and "Enemy Squad size 102" - first fights... Note, I didn't win ANY of the ones I tried- kept trying diff ones that lit up the thingy and even some "strong vs" things later, and never could get my supposedly better troops to actually defeat the ones they're strong against. It's a total mess and I'm more confused than when I started in some ways. ROFL
I suggest you use the strategy on ElvenGems for autofight, particularly in the first couple of rounds of a particular province. The autofight suggestions work great for me in the earlier parts of the tournament. Best of luck to you.
 
I suggest you use the strategy on ElvenGems for autofight, particularly in the first couple of rounds of a particular province. The autofight suggestions work great for me in the earlier parts of the tournament. Best of luck to you.
That's what I've been following. Still not making much sense since stronger units seem to lose a lot to weaker ones (the pentagon thingy). I'm gonna go ver all that again and see what I can make sense of. Thanks
 
He was referring to the timing of completing the "Advanced Scouts" tech in the tech tree, which is usually available at the beginning of each new chapter. It will decrease the scouting cost and difficulty of provinces.

The squad size upgrades are the techs he is referring to when talking about skipping. They make province fights easier because you have larger squads of troops. Weirdly, though, it often makes tournament fights harder, since enemy squad sizes are based on your squad sizes. It's a weird little quirk, so most of us in the know complete squad size upgrade in the tech tree up to a certain chapter, then stop completing them, as we have reached a point where we can slow down completing world map provinces (expanding our world map) and concentrate instead on tournaments.


EDIT: sorry if this is redundant. I didn't get to the second page of messages before posting, Ha!
So what point should I STOP upgrading those? I've literally done EVERYTHING in the tree cuz I didn't know the game would make it harder like that.
 

Darielle

Well-Known Member
He was referring to the timing of completing the "Advanced Scouts" tech in the tech tree, which is usually available at the beginning of each new chapter. It will decrease the scouting cost and difficulty of provinces.

The squad size upgrades are the techs he is referring to when talking about skipping. They make province fights easier because you have larger squads of troops. Weirdly, though, it often makes tournament fights harder, since enemy squad sizes are based on your squad sizes. It's a weird little quirk, so most of us in the know complete squad size upgrade in the tech tree up to a certain chapter, then stop completing them, as we have reached a point where we can slow down completing world map provinces (expanding our world map) and concentrate instead on tournaments.


EDIT: sorry if this is redundant. I didn't get to the second page of messages before posting, Ha!
I was under the impression that you had to complete all techs in order to advance to the next chapter. Are the later chapters different to where you can skip? (I'm in C5).
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
I was under the impression that you had to complete all techs in order to advance to the next chapter. Are the later chapters different to where you can skip? (I'm in C5).
No. All chapters have one or two techs which are not required. Any tech that doesn't have a line leading out of it's right side can be ignored. i.e. I'm in chapter 15, but stopped optional squad techs a long time ago:
1578753022426.png
 

Mykan

Well-Known Member
So what point should I STOP upgrading those? I've literally done EVERYTHING in the tree cuz I didn't know the game would make it harder like that.

That depends, optional squad sizes help you combat in the world map. They also increase the number of free units from wonders which are a % of your squad size. Generally the increase in wonders is considered to be less than troops saved by not researching them. So the real question is how are you going in world map combat and what are your goals there?

Some people only negotiate on the world map so optional SS techs are irrelevant. Others like to combat world map to save on goods. Your goals and your chapter will impact the timing to stop researching those techs., some people do all of the techs.