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    Your Elvenar Team

Using frogs

Iamaita

Well-Known Member
I’ve been hearing about how awesome frogs are since I started playing. I just unlocked the three star promotion and was really excited to maximize this awesomeness, but so far I haven’t seen the amazing results I expected. Half the time they seem to just… croak. (Sorry) Any advice on how to use them effectively?
 

Henroo

Oh Wise One
@Iamaita I actually had a similar reaction to yours when I unlocked them. I expected awesomeness and they didn't quite live up to the hype. In fact, I think Frogs are only the 2nd best heavy ranged unit in the game. When using autofight 3 star Orc Strats seem to routinely outperform 3 star Frogs. In fact, there have been multiple multi-wave spire encounters where 5 squads of Frogs fail. But then I send in 5 squads of Orc Strats and they win. However Orc Strats require orcs to train in Training Ground. Frogs only need supplies. Because of this I view Frogs as easier and cheaper to make. Because of this I will use Frogs in most routine encounters and save my Orc Strats for difficult multi-wave spire encounters since they seem to do better.

As far as advice on how to maximize the benefit of Frogs, they have very long range but relatively low attack rating. I think that low overall attack rating is why they do not always perform great. Anything you can do to enhance this will help. Obviously feeding Fire Phoenix is the single best way you can buff the damage Frogs do. Temple of Toads will also help.

As 1 final note: I think the reason I was somewhat disappointed in 3 star Frogs is because I was comparing them to my light range and mage units. Thing is, I use 1 ELR and 1 MMM building every spire/tournament cycle. So my mage and light range units are getting a 50% bonus from Fire Phoenix *AND* a 50% bonus from a 5 day building. The Frogs are only getting the 50% bonus from Fire Phoenix. If a 50% 5 day bonus building existed for heavy range, Frogs would probably be so stupid good.
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
If a 50% 5 day bonus building existed for heavy range, Frogs would probably be so stupid good.
I think you're right on that, Henroo.

Frogs are awesome against both light range and light melee. Whenever I have a mix of the two, I use frogs. Orc strategists are awesome against light range and "fairly good" against light melee, but they will hold up better against any other heavy range as well. At least that's my experience.
 

Gath Of Baal

Well-Known Member
Frogs really shine on manual fighting where you can use them to their maximum effectiveness. I use them multiple ways and it is all terrain and enemy unit dependent on how many I bring to any encounter. In my Opinion you can use frogs during most manual encounters (even when they don't match up with enemy units) and if used right they will minimize your unit losses., if you take any at all
 

Iamaita

Well-Known Member
This all makes sense. Thank you all. I think my buddies who are the biggest frog fans are all manual fighters. I also have needles and dragon abbey at higher level than toads, which means the frogs aren’t getting as much of a boost as my other troop types. If I’m understanding correctly, frogs really shine if they stay far enough away that they don’t get hit. Orc strategists can take more damage so they do better in more open terrain. Since I play mobile, I think @Henroo has good advice. Try cheap frogs first. If they die use strategists.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
They are very effective in the early provinces of tourney, but not so much mid-upper provinces. As others have already stated, their range is great, but they don't pack as big of a punch. They are most effective against light melee units BUT light melee units generally also have more health to compensate for the fact they are melee units. Early one, you might be able to kill a light melee with one shot, which is super ideal because they will never reach you for you to take any damage. As you progress and depending on how much buffing (Fire Phoenix/Toads wonder), then you eventually need 2 frogs to kill one light melee. Once you need 3 frogs to kill one light melee, they're not really worth using IMO. This is because if you're using 3 out of your 5 units to shoot down just one enemy, then it leaves you only have 2 units to handle the other 4 enemies, which you likely can't kill so they will move closer to reaching your front lines and hitting your range units. Generally, as far as light melee enemies are concerned (and there will be a lot in elixir tourney), you want to slowly transition from Frogs->Golem->Treants as you move up the provinces if you're an elf (I don't have any human cities). That not only is the progression towards more oomph behind the offense, but defense as well. In order to face greater enemy stacks that outnumber you, you will need to be able to absorb more hits. Golems and Treants have higher health to do it. I will also use them more when there are Hellhounds present because Frogs go before Hellhounds and it helps to damage them a little before they bite someone with their crazy range.

I've recently unlocked my Toads and have gotten it to lvl 12. I can feel the difference that I can bring Froggies with me a little deeper into tourney. Would highly recommend building a Toads as you can't buff heavy range with expiring buff buildings.
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
They are very effective in the early provinces of tourney, but not so much mid-upper provinces. As others have already stated, their range is great, but they don't pack as big of a punch. They are most effective against light melee units BUT light melee units generally also have more health to compensate for the fact they are melee units. Early one, you might be able to kill a light melee with one shot, which is super ideal because they will never reach you for you to take any damage. As you progress and depending on how much buffing (Fire Phoenix/Toads wonder), then you eventually need 2 frogs to kill one light melee. Once you need 3 frogs to kill one light melee, they're not really worth using IMO. This is because if you're using 3 out of your 5 units to shoot down just one enemy, then it leaves you only have 2 units to handle the other 4 enemies, which you likely can't kill so they will move closer to reaching your front lines and hitting your range units. Generally, as far as light melee enemies are concerned (and there will be a lot in elixir tourney), you want to slowly transition from Frogs->Golem->Treants as you move up the provinces if you're an elf (I don't have any human cities). That not only is the progression towards more oomph behind the offense, but defense as well. In order to face greater enemy stacks that outnumber you, you will need to be able to absorb more hits. Golems and Treants have higher health to do it. I will also use them more when there are Hellhounds present because Frogs go before Hellhounds and it helps to damage them a little before they bite someone with their crazy range.

I've recently unlocked my Toads and have gotten it to lvl 12. I can feel the difference that I can bring Froggies with me a little deeper into tourney. Would highly recommend building a Toads as you can't buff heavy range with expiring buff buildings.
Wow, I've never needed more than one frog to kill the light melee. But I only autofight so that may be different. I play anywhere from 20- 35 provs per week. I love the frogs for that, but I do prefer orc strategists if I have to fight anything tougher than the lights.
 

Henroo

Oh Wise One
Frogs really shine on manual fighting where you can use them to their maximum effectiveness. I use them multiple ways and it is all terrain and enemy unit dependent on how many I bring to any encounter. In my Opinion you can use frogs during most manual encounters (even when they don't match up with enemy units) and if used right they will minimize your unit losses., if you take any at all
This might all be true. But I have 3 chapter 16 cities. In each of them I top the spire and I score over 6000 points in tournament on a weekly basis. Unfortunately, I am not filthy rich so I also have a full time job. Some weeks I work well in excess of 40 hours. I HAVE to autofight. I simply do not have the time to manually fight everything anymore the way I did when my cities were so much smaller.
 

samidodamage

Buddy Fan Club member
I love the frogs in both my beginning of Ch16 city and beginning of Ch18 city, but I am a manual fighter. I top the Spire in both cities weekly; Ch18 city is consistently doing 8100pts (30 provinces x 6 rounds) in tourney and Ch16 city is at 25x6 consistently but starting to move towards the 8100pts. I have every Witch Hut/bear I can find placed in both cities and find that replacing Frogs is more of a requirement in the Ch16 one; guessing this is due to Toads being lvl 17 there and lvl 19 in the Ch18 city. Thanks for the reminder to work on that AW in both cities!
The last couple of Spires, I've been toying with auto-fight. That was tougher on frogs in my Ch16 city, but still only took a couple days to get them back to pre-Spire levels. That included having to also get Blossoms back to pre-Spire levels as they also didn't fair as well in auto fights (though I didn't lose any fights; I went manual if I thought that was a possibility). It took a day to get both back to pre-Spire levels in the Ch18 city.
As an elf, while I like the Orc Strats and will use them, they are less of a 'oh wow!' unit for me than the frogs. I presume that's because I have Golems instead of mortars and I get free Golems from the Toads.
 

Myne

Oh Wise One
I love the frogs against the green dudes. They must be highly susceptible to toad spit. Never had it fail yet. I am about to get the upgrade for frogs too. go me!
 

Raccon

Well-Known Member
Frogs and mortars shine on a battle field like examples below, where your troops as well as the enemy's (even LR and Mage) don't have room to move. And your enemy is forced to move one squad at a time into an open area, while you can concentrate all your fire on one enemy squad per turn. I even took out the mage in the lower right corner before she could get too close to cause any damage to my mortars.

Screenshot (9).png


Screenshot (11).png

On the other hand, on an open battle field where the enemy can move fast, your frogs/ mortars have a very short expiry date.
One more technic I learned is that when the enemy has a mortar or frog, I always place a mortar in a relatively safe corner to suppress that enemy and debuff his attacking power against my troops. As you know, the enemy mortars or frogs could reduce your troop's attack power by hitting you constantly until your mage or HM get close enough to get rid of them.
 

Henroo

Oh Wise One
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As an elf, while I like the Orc Strats and will use them, they are less of a 'oh wow!' unit for me than the frogs. I presume that's because I have Golems instead of mortars and I get free Golems from the Toads.
I think you are correct in this. I DO have both high level human and elf cities. And my troop training is way different, depending on which. I actually rarely use Frogs at all in my Elven city. Golems do well enough in most fights. I continue to train many Golems in my barracks. About 50 to 60% of the total Barracks training goes to Golems. When I do use Frogs in my elven city, they are free ones I got from Witch Hut. In my elven city the output of my Mercenary Camp is split between Blossom Mages and Rangers.
Things are much different in my human cities. In them about 60 to 70% of the output of my barracks goes to training Priests. And I never train Mortars. But in my human cities my Mercenary Camp is only making Rangers and Frogs. I don't need Blossoms because I have Priests.
 

Iamaita

Well-Known Member
So much good stuff here. Thank you all.

I do usually default to golems for heavy range. I didn’t think about that in my earlier comment about first frogs then strategists. I will have to play with the frogs more and just get a feel for when they are good. @Darielle you have me convinced to keep trying since you have success with them on auto fight. Are they more effective if you pair them with other types of heavy range? Or is it still better to just send all one type on auto? Is there a type of light melee or light range that they should not be used against?

Thank you all again for sharing your expertise. :)
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
Wow, I've never needed more than one frog to kill the light melee. But I only autofight so that may be different. I play anywhere from 20- 35 provs per week. I love the frogs for that, but I do prefer orc strategists if I have to fight anything tougher than the lights.
Sorry, my statement is misleading. I'm doing about 30-35 provinces x6. To clarify, I'm counting how many frogs it takes to take them down before they reach me in order to win with minimal damage. For example, a hellhound might reach my front line on his opening round, so ideally I need him dead before it's the hellhound's turn. In the first 7 provinces (making up numbers as example since everyone's buffing level will differ), it might only take one Frog. In the next 7, it might take 2 frogs. So by province 15, I'm not bothering with frogs anymore because it will take 3 frogs to take him down before he reaches me, which leaves me 2 units to deal with the other 4 enemies. If I can't bring him down, then I need to minimize his bite, whether in the form of weakening him with a shot or a debuff. Sure, I can use one frog that takes 6 rounds to kill a light melee too, but my frog will also take 5 rounds of damage if he can reach me in 1 turn.

Are they more effective if you pair them with other types of heavy range? Or is it still better to just send all one type on auto? Is there a type of light melee or light range that they should not be used against?
Yes, they pair well with Golems (I don't have human city). That's a good transition combo before the next transition, which might be 2 golems and 0 frogs, as you slowly ditch all frogs. For example, 2 frogs might no longer be enough to kill that light melee before it reaches you, but the Frog+Golem combo will be since the Golem gives it more punch. Ideally, you want to range everything to death before it gets close enough to deal any damage to you for minimal losses. This applies to autofights too because it's based on the foundation of initiatives and movement numbers. For example, you have a Frog+Golem vs Ancient Orc+Orc General. Ancient Orc moves first. In all possible movements, he can't reach anything because both the Frog+Golem are still in the back row starting position still. Then your Frog goes and he shoots the Ancient Orc. Next, your Golem goes and he kills the Ancient Orc because that's the only target he can reach. Your Golem can't reach the Orc General on his intial turn in all possible movements. Therefore, you don't need to control anything and can trust the autofight. The initiative and movement dictates what targets are available without you needing to know where the pieces are specifically on the board. In manual fight, I am killing them in the order of who can reach me fastest. In autofight, I'm just counting how long I have before they reach me and turn into a melee situation. In a melee situation where everyone is within range, I also don't care where they are on the board and can trust the autofight. If say 3 or more of the enemy can simultaneously reach my front line, then I need to transition from Frogs/Golem to more Treants. Obviously, I'm working with fuzzier math when autofighting than manual fighting, but that's fine as long as I know I need to do the transition from Frogs->Golems->Treants up the increasing provinces.
 

Killy-

Well-Known Member
If I remeber correctly - they nerfed the frogs once and then they changed how debuffs are working, which was another nerf for the frogs. Now they are a situational unit like many described them already.
 

i8sh

Active Member
A 3* frog has the advantage of pairing with other units very well. Yes they are a specialized against light melee units, but the increased damage bonus and their higher initiative makes them very well suited for striking Hellhounds and Steinlings before they move. When mixed with Orc Strategists or Mortars, one frog can strike first, then the mortar or strategists hits second while benefiting from the increased damage bonus and then inflicting a decreased attack bonus. Have to be careful though - if they hit a unit after your mage hits it first, then you will lose the increased damage bonus from the mage and have no bonus available at the beginning of the next round (since the frogs bonus only lasts 1 round)
 

StarLoad

Well-Known Member
Elf city with Fire chicken fed and 1 each of MMM, ELR and UUU

First battle Round 1 Province 4
R1P4 -base.jpg

Should be easy win
R1P4 -manual.jpg

Archer scored a hit and now the frogs can play
R1P4 -manual 4 down- 1 hit.jpg

frogs kill 4 in single shots and wound the last so that its a win with the next shot. Retreating to go AUTO
R1P4 -auto win.jpg

Notice that auto has slightly less damage to the single frog.

Next Battle Round 1 Province 13
R1P13-base.jpg

Going mixed Frog and Rangers another easy win expected
R1P13-manual 1 opening hit.jpg

Took 1 ranger hit and now going after the Frog dangers and moving a ranger into position
R1P13-manual first turn 1 kill 1 hurt Second Hit.jpg

rangers kill Mage and wound 1
R1P13-manual second turn 2nd kill another hit on ranger.jpg

Ranger kill another and frogs have hurt both the Archer and dryad, only 1 ranger wounded
R1P13-manual second turn 4down and Treant will die going auto now.jpg

Frogs dispatch Dryad and Archer and Rangers mortally wound Treant, retreating to go Auto (Note only the ranger is wounded but down 7300 in health)

See next post
 

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StarLoad

Well-Known Member
continued


Note that in Auto I would have taken a bit less damage across the field.

Next battle Round 1 Province 21
R1P20-base.jpg


Frogs needs to be fought with care Mages need to clear before dying
R1P20-manual.jpg


R1P21-4 kill 2 lost going auto.jpg

4 killed and 2 dead frogs and next shot kills so retreating and going AUTO
R1P21-auto win.jpg
 

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StarLoad

Well-Known Member
So frogs are Best when you can use your range and get in the first shot to cripple the enemy and pair well with mages and rangers/archers.

Also note that not always is manual better, as shown losses were higher on manual in the case

Please understand this is my experience on the tourney and YMMV
 
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