Very Hard Provinces

[Moho]

I am a beginner and I wonder how I can handle very hard provinces. I have just passed from The Arrival to Evolving, where I can train Paladins.
I have managed to clear provinces around my little "kingdom" and I need to know whether or not I can win battles in the very hard ones.
My military advisor, who assigns various missions and offers rewards for the ones I fulfill, wants me to fight and win in 5 encounters.

So, let me pick one of the available provinces. I have already scouted a number of them. Some are really expensive, and others are simple locked.

Nice province, right? In the left, lower corner it reads: "Very hard. The enemy army is overwhelming." Okay, I understand. The army I'm going to encounter is too much to handle. But it says "very hard," not impossible. If there is a chance my army could win against these guys, I would like to know how to do it. So, let's enter the encounter I have marked with the red arrow.

The enemy Squadsize is about 3 times larger than mine. This is overwhelming, indeed. But is it impossible? Is there any army structure I can use to defeat these guys, or are they actually undefeatable as far as I am concerned? If I check whom I should send into battle, I can see that the Paladins and Axe Barbarians are effective against the Drone Riders, whereas the Bandits should be easy to handle by my Crossbowmen and Axe Barbarians. There are 5 five squads I can place on the battlefield. Let's say I engage 1 Paladin squad, 2 Axe Barbarian squads, and 2 Crossbowman squads. Do you think they stand any chance against those shady characters? Not really, right?

Thank you in advance.

 

[ajqtrz]

Sadly it's very, very difficult to do so. You see, when you get all "very hard" it tells you that you've "over-scouted." You've gone out farther than the resources of your city can effectively go. The only real option, I think, is to hold up your scouting until your city catches up. Don't worry, almost every new player (including me when I was new) faces this problem. It will get better and you will get past it as you grow and learn the game.

AJ

 

[Moho]

Thank you for your reply.

All right then. I will keep my men for the battles I can win.

 

[samidodamage]

@Moho
Early game (pre-Ch5), the 'very hard' rating can happen even without over-scouting. It can happen even when the number of provinces you have scouting hasn't reached the number needed to open the chest for the next chapter. This is due partly to your units being less powerful (lower star rating) than the enemy (that will happen as you scout further out from your city) and/or your squad size being smaller than the enemy(seems to be your issue now). I don't have any human cities, so I don't know those troops as intimately as I do elven ones. If I were in your position as an elf, first thing I'd do is decline the quest if that was an option. If not (or if I needed the rewards), I'd look for a steel province. The enemies you face in those provinces can sometimes be overcome by your crossbowmen and/or paladins even when you are outnumbered. Here's a link to a good reference for steel provinces. It no longer applies to tourney, but is good info for map provinces. It gives good info on choosing troops for various possible matchups with the enemies you'll face in those provinces:
Elven Gems Steel Provinces

 

[Moho]

The enemies you face in those provinces can sometimes be overcome by your crossbowmen and/or paladins even when you are outnumbered.

Thank you for all the advice. I'll analyze some steel provinces right now.

 

[Moho]

Well, I went into a steel province and picked the easiest fight there. I couldn't win against those guys.

 

[samidodamage]

It may not be possible; again not sure how the human troops stack up against the elven equivalents. Those enemy Thieves are a counter unit to your light range. I should have clarified that I'd try for enemy combos that were made up of primarily heavy melee and mages or of all Thieves. Your paladins should be good against Thieves, but heavily outnumbered by the enemy heavy melee means they had a disadvantage there. Also, on autofight, the AI will send your light range against those thieves due to their higher initiative and longer range than the enemy heavy melee. To strike the thieves, the light range are in range of the thieves so they would be very weak (if still alive!) by the time they targeted the heavy melee. Matchups where you can put in 5 of one unit tend to be the ones you can win. 5 light range vs all heavy melee/mage(light range has the advantage over both those enemy types) or 5 heavy melee vs all light melee might be winnable.
**Note: I am not advocating for you to continue to try these ideas! I know it's tough to replace losses at your level! I just know it stinks that they took away starting players ability to learn combat matchups in the tourneys. Those fights used to be very low squad size with these same defined enemies. This allowed starting fighters to learn with way fewer losses. I don't know what the answer is for learning the combat system since that option has been removed. Maybe @Mykan or @SoggyShorts will weigh in with other ideas on this. I do know that the company does not see this as a problem for new players. I know I've seen folks advocating for new players to submit support tickets documenting the problem, but many new players have no idea the deck is so stacked against them in these chapters.

 

[Lelanya]

Also, have you checked to see if the quest is declinable?

 

[Moho]

Also, have you checked to see if the quest is declinable?

Yes, I can decline the quest but I would rather fulfill the mission.

Plus, it would be good to know how to win those encounters. Right now I suspect they are (at least nearly) impossible, although they're named "very hard."

 

[SoggyShorts]

Yes, I can decline the quest but I would rather fulfill the mission.

There are two possibilities here:
1. It is part of the declinable quest cycle where even if you do it you'll just have it come up again after you do a dozen other quests, or
2. It is declinable because it was in your quest queue/backlog from a previous chapter in which case you have moved past it to a point where it's too late to reasonably do it.

Either way, I wouldn't spend too much time on it and just move on.

 

[Moho]

Either way, I wouldn't spend too much time on it and just move on.

Yes, I know it must be a mission from the time when there were provinces with medium difficulty, but it kind of irks me when they say "very hard" but it turns out to be impossible.

 

[Lelanya]

Are you fighting manual or auto? Tactics can make a huge difference. Also, do you have any mage instants? The extra range can make a huge difference vs heavy melee.

 

[SoggyShorts]

it it kind of irks me when they say "very hard" but it turns out to be impossible.

The difficulty rating also includes negotiating, and that is never impossible.*
Also, with placing enough 5-day booster buildings from crafting there are no "impossible" fights.

*it might theoretically be possible to have costs higher than your MH capacity.

 

[Moho]

The difficulty rating also includes negotiating, and that is never impossible.

Oh, I see.

 

[Mykan]

Sadly it's very, very difficult to do so. You see, when you get all "very hard" it tells you that you've "over-scouted."

The over-scouted is inaccurate for new players. The very hard provinces are a function of the game that inno does not believe is a problem (as advised by a CM).

Plus, it would be good to know how to win those encounters. Right now I suspect they are (at least nearly) impossible, although they're named "very hard."

Some background infrmation might help you. Many moons ago when they changed the combat system to what it is now they made it so it was impossible to win fights where the enemy squad size was 2 or more the size of your own troops. For many people (especially those who auto-fight) even 1.8:1 was close to impossible so they scaled the hardest tourny fights down to 1.6:1 (at the time, not current tournaments)

Since that time they have introduced various mechanics that can help you have better quality troops which does make fights at 2:1 or more possible (see current tournament mechanics). To do this however requires some or several combinations of:

• Specific military wonders to boost health and attack for your units
• Temporary military boost buildings won in the spire and from crafting
• The fire phoenix pet - While you can craft this the artifacts to evolve it are not readily available.

For a town in chapter 2 the wonders are not an option as you only learn 2 in that chapter and neither are military ones. The fire phoenix pet is something you either are old enough to have or not, unlikely for a chapter 2 town. So the temporary military boosts are your best bet.

In your case you are going up against 3:1 ratio so I would hate to think how many HP boosting buildings you would need to win. The cost of those buildings just would not be worth it. Better saved for other needs.

TL;DR Yes, it is theoretically possible to win, but not worth the time or effort to do so.

 

[Moho]

Specific military wonders to boost health and attack for your units

Now that I'm a little more advanced in the game, I am aware of the possibility that my troops should do better by means of such buildings. I have just acquired Vallorian Valor, where I can get Vallorian Guards, and the Enlightened Light Range building, which grants more attack value to my light ranged units. Unfortunately, this latter building will be gone in about 5 days.

 

[Mykan]

Unfortunately, this latter building will be gone in about 5 days.

Many people use those buildings to align with tournaments and/or spire. There is plenty of time to do some world map if desired. With some scouting strategies it is possible to eventually have easy or very easy provinces.

 

[Moho]

I wonder if I could manage by using those instants which give warriors. I have several of those and I have no idea when, where, or how to use them.

 

[Sir Squirrel]

You just click on the instant in your inventory and they will automatically be placed in your barracks. They just give you troops they don't give you extra in the battles, they just give you free troop that you don't have to train. If you can research a squad size upgrade or get to the next advanced scouts research, that is what will help to make them battles easier.
Have you beat more provinces then you need to open the chest for the next chapter? If so you should just decline the quest. In the early chapters it is best to not open scout or fight more then that as the difficulty is set when you scout a province. Also if the quest is being given by the lower (the quest giver closer to the bottom of the page), they are on a loop and you can just decline until you get one that you can actually do. They are not like the main quests, more like bonus quests.

 

[Moho]

You just click on the instant in your inventory and they will automatically be placed in your barracks.

I am happy I opened this subject. I understand the utility of those instants now.

Last Tournament, there was a fight where the enemy and I seemed to be almost equal in terms of squadsize and I was confident I was going to find the right army structure to just crush those guys. I didn't.

Okay, no problem, I said to myself. This is going to be a lesson. I'm not going to negotiate this. I'm going to try different army compositions until I defeat them. After testing various arrangements, I realized it was useless. My most successful army structure was the first one - that was when I caused the enemy the highest damage. I think I lost 4 or 5 times before I decided to negotiate and move on. It was the fifth round of the battles, right before the end of the Tournament.

We're not very far into the present Tournament and the situation happened again. My troops and the enemy troops appeared to be slightly equivalent sizewise, so sent my best formation into battle. Defeat. Wait a minute, I said to myself. Didn't Sir Squirrel say to click on those instants and get real warriors into your barracks? Yes, he did. So, I went back to the city, activated (or summoned) some Mages and Heavy Ranged Units. When I went back, I simply crushed the enemy. My troops had minimum damage, whereas the shady gang that had frustrated me earlier was gone.

Nice.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

There should be a PS to this story. Of course I asked my fellowship members about the instants, and there is one of them who has kind of taken me under his wing. When we talked about the instants, he said he preferred to use them later in the game when their power was higher and they could really make a difference. That was his game style. I should have realized that my game style should have been different because I advanced a bit too fast and I may face stronger armies despite my underdeveloped army. I mean, there is a reason why the game has endowed me with those instants - there is no way I can win in certain circumstances unless I make use of some "magic." So I should, and I did. I hope I'll get more instants like the ones that helped me today.