What buildings do I need for fighting the Spire

[DeepTerminal]

I currently have a full-catering city, in Chapter 10 (about to enter 11), Barracks only at level 9 (to save space), and have 2 armories (breeding grounds) at level 25.

If I want to start fighting in the spire, what military buildings do I need? Do I need to build both the Training Grounds and the Mercenary Camp? Or are the troops that are trained in the Barracks good enough? Is there any AW that I absolutely must have? Any building I should craft from the MA?

Thanks!

 

[mikeledo]

INNO allows you to fight or cater/convince. However, if you try to cater your way through the game, you are going to be disappointed at the high costs of catering. You need to construct cities to generate fighters. Merc camp is a must. You need enough armories to produce troops 24/7. I doubt if two is enough. Get and upgrade AWS that makes troops, help troops, and increase production which is most of them.

 

[Alpha Lyrae]

Here's a good breakdown of wonder benefits originally created by a past member and modified by Mykan to include his thoughts/new wonders: http://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/aw-rankings.21914/post-168614

 

[AtaguS]

I'd say Needles of the Tempest is an important one for fighting the spire, it helps retrain your troops faster. And the Martal Monestary makes them more powerful across the board. Other AWs increae the power and production of certain troops and can be very useful but if space and KP is an issue, I'd focus on those 2 first.
Upgrade your barracks and yes, I would suggest having both training grounds and mercenary camps. (That said I do know of a player who uses only Barracks-made troops and is doing very well, so perhaps someone can add to this one more)
You can craft things like the Mage multiplier and Unleashed Unit Upgrade to help you out for the 5 days the spire is there.
There is also the Dwarven Armoror which you can win in the Spire, and that has been a big help to me when climbing the spire (I wait until the next one to get the whole 5 days worth) And polish that fire phoenix if you got him!
Good luck!

 

[Risen Malchiah]

@AtaguS has some good advice. I'd also recommend Monastery/Sanctuary and Needles. The Monastery/Sanctuary is vital for keeping troops alive longer, which is super important for many of the fights in the Spire. Needles will let you train troops faster, but there's a practical limit to that. If you train troops so quick that your barracks sits idle at night, then Needles isn't gonna help you much unless you also add Shrine of the Shrewdy Shrooms which will increase how much you can train at once. The other military wonders that boost specific troops are nice, but they can quickly take over your city. If you want to just focus on one of them, I'd say go for Dragon Abbey, which boosts mages since I seem to use them so often that this wonder becomes quite useful (and having mana-on-demand will let you maintain fewer mana-producing buildings and free up space).

But really what I'd suggest before fighting in the Spire is to try fighting in the tournament. It is significantly easier and your losses won't hurt as much. The early rounds of the tournament are excellent for practicing fighting since the squads are small and if you lose all your troops, it's not so bad. Once you get the hang of it (either manual or autofight), then try the Spire. You'll save a ton of troops just by knowing which ones to use at the right times.

As for Training Grounds and Merc Camp, this depends partly on your race and chapter. The Merc Camp gives you Blossom Mages, far superior to the elven Sorceress, but comparable to the human Priest. By chapter 15, level 3 Frogs are amazing. The Training Grounds gives you Dogs (useful for taking down mages, but they often get killed soon after), and Orc Strategists (excellent for taking down enemy archers and more mobile than human Mortars). There are more obviously, but these are the key units worth focusing on.

 

[mucksterme]

I have all AWs and if I didn't I would still want all military AWs.
I suppose if I really needed to pick a couple to start with
I'd go with Martial Monastery for the across the board health benefit
And the Dragon Abbey to make mages hit harder. Which helps because mages are easily killed so if they can kill the enemy faster then they have a better chance to survive.

( but needles is good and toads and victory springs and )

As for Training Grounds and Merc Camp, this depends partly on your race and chapter. The Merc Camp gives you Blossom Mages, far superior to the elven Sorceress, but comparable to the human Priest. By chapter 15, level 3 Frogs are amazing. The Training Grounds gives you Dogs (useful for taking down mages, but they often get killed soon after), and Orc Strategists (excellent for taking down enemy archers and more mobile than human Mortars). There are more obviously, but these are the key units worth focusing on.

Again I have all three
But if I was choosing between Merc or Training grounds I'd go merc
From the perspective of all units being maxed ( so maybe at chapter 10 there'd be some differences)
Like Risen said, as a general rule Blossoms are the superior mage, and those poison toads rock, but also i have found the Forest Rangers ( or is it wardens?) better mage killers than the dogs
I hardly use light or heavy melee anymore. but for heavy melee the Valorians are good

Something to keep in mind.
As you get military buildings and buff your units with Needles, Dragon Abbey, Toad, Monastery
And then when you add in crafted buffs or if you're lucky, Fire Phoenix
Any time you look at the matchup between your Archer ( or whatever) and it says "about equal" well that judgement is according to your base stats. With all your buffs you actually have the advantage.
Why is this important?
Because if the enemy has 3 archers and two heavy melee you may be tempted to use a mix of mages for the melee and heavy ranged for the archers. and you'd have to try to get rid of his archers before they wipe out your mages
but me in that circumstance? i'm sending all archers and hitting auto. because my archers kill heavy melee and my archers also have an advantage over enemy archers.
i hope you can follow what i'm saying there
but that is just one example of lineups where you can use your supposedly equal units to advantage
look at it this way
if you check the tips each unit is best against two other units: mages against heavy ranged and melee, archers against heavy melee ans mages, etc
but with your units buffed on health and damage you have actually now extended their reach so that your mages are good against heavy ranged, heavy melee AND other mages

 

[Risen Malchiah]

Generally speaking, you can get by with just barracks troops, but once you're experienced, you could get better results with the others. Think of the troops from the other buildings as specialists who are better in select circumstances, while being weaker in others. Early on, it may be wise to focus on the barracks troops while you're learning. In later chapters, the specialist troops become more powerful. By the end of chapter 15, I think I use Blossom Mages, Orcs Strategists, Rangers and Frogs a lot more often. The only troop I haven't found a use for is the Drone Rider.

 

[Valtitude]

What about armories? Have seen advanced players with six or more and some with two or three.
Beginning Amuni.

 

[Risen Malchiah]

Armories are entirely dependent on your own preference and how often you can get online to avoid having an idle Barracks not producing troops. With an upgraded Barracks, Needles, etc, it can be difficult to keep troops training 24/7 when you're away from your computer. I like to keep my queues above 12 hrs which generally keeps my troops cranking all the time. If my queues are too short, I add/upgrade armories or Shrooms. If my queues get really long, I upgrade Needles, Flying Academy or Victory Springs depending on which will help most in the coming weeks.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

I currently have a full-catering city, in Chapter 10 (about to enter 11), Barracks only at level 9 (to save space), and have 2 armories (breeding grounds) at level 25.

If I want to start fighting in the spire, what military buildings do I need? Do I need to build both the Training Grounds and the Mercenary Camp? Or are the troops that are trained in the Barracks good enough? Is there any AW that I absolutely must have? Any building I should craft from the MA?

Thanks!

Fighting in the spire, what you need is the same buildings as the tournaments need, a level 9 barracks wont cut it.

 

[mucksterme]

What about armories? Have seen advanced players with six or more and some with two or three.
Beginning Amuni.

I'm chapter 16
almost always fight
i have two armories but they are upgraded as far as they go
i also max out my barracks, training ground and merc

i rarely run low on troops but if i do
i'm glad i have a brown bear to feed and a pile of 5 hr instants from the spire

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

What about armories? Have seen advanced players with six or more and some with two or three.
Beginning Amuni.

It's all about what you like to do and how your wonders are.
Armouries are also the best "ranking point grabbers" so some people just build them for that.

In essence you need as much armouries to create enough leadtime in your barracks ect to overcome the longest period of not logging in.
How long that is depens on 2 factors

• Your training size from armouries and wonders
• The training speed level barracks ect + wonderboost
• very very very early game how many trainings slots

Shrine of the Shrewdy schrooms power is based on the amount of armoury levels you have a high level wonder could result in fewer armouries.
Dwarven bullwark power is based on your squad size.

Needles of the tempes (barracks) Flying academy (mercenary camp) and Victory Springs (training grounds) boost there respective production buildings, this requires more training size.
You pretty much need shrewdy shrooms to counter the lower training time created by the upper wonders, one makes it quiker, the other increases training time.

There are also other reasons to build more armouries but the above is the basics.

 

[Jiali]

If I could only quote this whole forum thread so I could type "Agree!" but for now, I've gotta ask...

I'm chapter 16
almost always fight
i have two armories but they are upgraded as far as they go

Muckster, how is it possible to get by with only 2 armories? Don't you run out of time training overnight? Or, does the Dwarven Bulwark @ 13 balance that out?

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

Muckster, how is it possible to get by with only 2 armories? Don't you run out of time training overnight? Or, does the Dwarven Bulwark @ 13 balance that out?

It is certainly possible. I have gone through the whole game with exactly 2 armories. I only built up to 5 after chapter 15 was done, as I had no other use for the space.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Muckster, how is it possible to get by with only 2 armories? Don't you run out of time training overnight? Or, does the Dwarven Bulwark @ 13 balance that out?

It is certainly possible. I have gone through the whole game with exactly 2 armories. I only built up to 5 after chapter 15 was done, as I had no other use for the space.

I went from 4 armories to 6 during chapter 15 and I have all three AWs that increase training speed at level 11 and the two AWs that add to training size at level 6. That makes my training time per squad, depending on the building, between 2:15 and 2:45 for one squad to finish.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

If I could only quote this whole forum thread so I could type "Agree!" but for now, I've gotta ask...



Muckster, how is it possible to get by with only 2 armories? Don't you run out of time training overnight? Or, does the Dwarven Bulwark @ 13 balance that out?

Shrine of the Shrewdy shrooms can do wonders.
I played with only 2 armouries until brown bears came into the game and at that time I wanted a 24h+ production cycle instead of 6-7h or so.

 

[mucksterme]

Muckster, how is it possible to get by with only 2 armories? Don't you run out of time training overnight? Or, does the Dwarven Bulwark @ 13 balance that out?

I'm not an expert on AW interactions. I've been an AW collector from the beginning. I build them all and I upgrade all the military ones. So for AW adice stick with these ^^^^^^^ other guys.
I will tell you one secret to my success though. The best way to have enough troops trained is, don't lose the ones you have.
First off, learn how to fight. It takes some practice learning the best match ups but after a while it becomes automatic.
But my biggest advantage, buff buff buff. Craft the military buff buildings every chance you get. You want to go big in tourny or spire, a couple of unleashed can really help. And any time you get a dwarven armorer from the spire save it for big pushes.
And when using those 5 day buff buildings, try to get as much value as possible. The first few gates of the spire are pretty easy. Instead of putting your buffs on first thing Sunday. Wait until Monday or Tuesday so you have them on for more of the tourny.
And of course the best buff to have is a fully developed fire phoenix. If you don't have one keep alert for opportunities to get one.
So to answer your question.
That is how I get by with two armories
and keep my squad counts over 100 btw.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

I'm not an expert on AW interactions. I've been an AW collector from the beginning. I build them all and I upgrade all the military ones. So for AW adice stick with these ^^^^^^^ other guys.
I will tell you one secret to my success though. The best way to have enough troops trained is, don't lose the ones you have.
First off, learn how to fight. It takes some practice learning the best match ups but after a while it becomes automatic.
But my biggest advantage, buff buff buff. Craft the military buff buildings every chance you get. You want to go big in tourny or spire, a couple of unleashed can really help. And any time you get a dwarven armorer from the spire save it for big pushes.
And when using those 5 day buff buildings, try to get as much value as possible. The first few gates of the spire are pretty easy. Instead of putting your buffs on first thing Sunday. Wait until Monday or Tuesday so you have them on for more of the tourny.
And of course the best buff to have is a fully developed fire phoenix. If you don't have one keep alert for opportunities to get one.
So to answer your question.
That is how I get by with two armories
and keep my squad counts over 100 btw.

hmm 100 that has been a long while ago I used that as a standard.
I just used a chunk of my stock of troops and trashed 2000 troops in the magic dus tournament so I could get enough KP and broken runeshards
but it's finally mine

Spoiler

Spire wonder FTW!!!

 

[mucksterme]

hmm 100 that has been a long while ago I used that as a standard.
I just used a chunk of my stock of troops and trashed 2000 troops in the magic dus tournament so I could get enough KP and broken runeshards
but it's finally mine

yeah 100 is my bottom floor
when i get below that i do speed training
i'm not sure if i ever hit 1000 in any unit,
right now my highest is 800 vallorians
but i've got mine worked out so i never run out mid week
so it's all good

 

[Jiali]

The best way to have enough troops trained is, don't lose the ones you have.

Classic advice! lol