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Your Elvenar Team
What Makes a Good Archmage?
- Thread starter Darielle
- Start date
Dhurrin
Well-Known Member
1 : That I think is an unreasonable demand for an AM in that specific wording, and I'm sitting on some pretty good stockpiles. The AM does not have to be a bank where others can exhange anything at will. I know you said 'reasonable' but that's up to everyone's interpretation.
I have no issue at all taking trades from any of my members, but trading is something I see as a normal part of the game. Any member who needs any kind of specific goods for either an upgrade, tourney, Spire, or quest can shoot me a PM and/or post in the chat and I'll be happy to take any of their 1-star trades to help them out. But that does not mean I'm taking every FS trade I see all the time. Not to mention that would be a day-job by itself
Now I was the 'bank' before I took over the AM spot, so it's not a big deal, but in general I just feel the AM is not the one who needs to take all the trades.
4 : I only agree in part; an AM should not be bullied into submission. Nor should anyone.
But I do not agree it is MY group, it is OUR group. So though I may have the final word, I will consult the mages. One has them for a reason and they can give different points of view. And some of them have been with this group way longer than I have, so I value their opinion.
9 (and 8) : I do encourage my members to climb the Spire and we have several players who will help others out with goods if that is needed. But the Spire is harder for a lot of players than the tourney, so I use tourney incentives instead, since doing better in the tourney will help them do better in the Spire in the end. Bonus goods or KPs for everyone each time they break either their own high-score since they joined and more if they break their own highest score ever.
Darielle
Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
1. I did mention a 2-star trade ... and I meant 2 star trades. No, I don't think any AM should have to take 1 or 0 star trades. We have a rule against them unless they are needed for tourney or spire, and then only if prearranged. So I wasn't thinking of those. I'll go ahead and clarify ... thanks for giving me that opportunity.
4. That's why I mentioned consulting other members ... it's important that an archmage is not a dictator. But being bullied is wrong no matter who does it.
9: To each his own! That's one of the reasons I love the fact that each fellowship can concentrate on what is right for their group.
Dhurrin
Well-Known Member
I have no issue taking 1 star trades if someone needs extra goods, it is the reason I have stocks. And I'm not opposed to helping members by accepting cross-tier trades for specific purposes.
We have a rule up that we usually do 2 star trades or better. And that we prefer same-tier trades. Some players seem to have a problem with that, which is fine, but not for our group.
I'll generally put out a message in chat when I am posting trades to rebalance my inventory, since I only post 3-star trades, so members will have the first shot at grabbing them if they want.
MichaelMichael
Day and Night Trader
Good list. I am good at 1,2, 4, & 5. In fact I solicit and accept 0 star trades for those in early chapters as a matter of policy. I'd add that being understanding and sympathetic about the curves that life throws us is a requirement to be Human, not just an AM. It is more important as an AM. Real life is always more important, but you are running a gaming group. Sometimes the group is not a fit for a particular person. Any temporary issue is acceptable. If it is continuing, the player ideally should remove themselves. Putting that in your fellowship description, helps one deal with those situations with maximum empathy.As I reflect on my two years as an archmage and search for a replacement, I decided to put up my list of my top 10 things that make a good archmage. Perhaps other good archmages can add to it or improve on it, so that newer people who suddenly find themselves with fellowships can have a good resource here, for tips and advice from the "old pros." Please jump in and add to my list, whatever you think would benefit new archmages.
1. Always take your fellowship member's two or three star trades, especially if you know those items are scarce and they'll have a hard time acquiring them. Take as many as you can reasonably afford. That's going to vary on how much of a stockpile you have, but anyone who is sitting on 3 or 4 million in rare goods but won't take a 50K, two-star trade simply because they don't need it or want to keep their stockpile is, in my opinion, doing a grave disservice to their member and the fellowship.
2. Never call out a member by name for non-disruptive offenses in public, such as in chat or in a message others can read. For example, if you have a rule that says 2 or 3 star trades only, but someone puts up a one-star trade, remind them in private of the rule. Or you can say something general in chat, such as, "Remember, everyone, only 2 or 3 star trades are allowed." Don't say, "Hal, you put up a one-star trade. That's not allowed." Now, if they're causing a riot in chat, that's very different.
3. Multiple offenders, especially those that disrupt or cause resentment in the group, should be removed with a friendly note. Say something like, "I'm sorry things didn't work out with us. I hope you find a group with rules you can live with. Best of luck to you." And whatever you do, don't keep warning them if they repeatedly break the same rule over and over. Either keep the rule or the person, but not both, no matter how much you need the tourney or spire points.
4. Never let a member bully you into submission. You are leading the group, not him or her. If someone says you're being unfair, ask 4 or 5 of your best members in private if you're wrong. Make sure they know you won't be mad no matter their answer (and mean it!) If they think you're right, then you're right… the bully must go.
5. Always post a positive message each day, even if it's just, "Good morning, everyone!" You may not have an active chat, but people like knowing that their archmage is engaged and active.
6. Seek out members for empty slots, and try to keep your fellowship as full as possible with ACTIVE members. Check Elvenstats regularly, and if a player is gone for a month or two without explanation, remove them and recruit for their slot. The worst thing you can do is to keep more than a few members with "black triangles" beside their names on Elvenstats. That makes your fellowship a target for recruiters. If you have 20 players but 10 of them have black triangles, you can almost guarantee that your active players will be wooed by other fellowships.
7. When you are recruiting from other fellowships, maintain a reputation for kindness. Don't recruit from small fellowships or from new ones where the archmage is active. Whether they're as good an AM as you are is irrelevant … if they're trying, leave them alone and wish them well. Focus on those where the AM is absent or sporadic in tourney scores (you can see that on Elvenstats) and where a large number of black triangles dominate a full or nearly full fellowship. If an archmage doesn't care about the fellowship, don't feel guilty about whisking the best player away. I have found, in 2 years as an archmage and a year as a recruiting mage, most players in that situation are about to quit anyway. You're rescuing them, not poaching them.
8. Find good ways to reward your players for their loyalty to your fellowship. Check Elvenstats (can you tell I love that place?) to make a list of the dates that all of your members joined your group. Announce their Fellowship anniversaries and make a fuss in a message. Give them an anniversary gift of KP, and encourage (but not decree) everyone else to do the same. Also, keep an eye on their scores as they rise through the ranks. We reward players at every 100K level from 100K to a million. It's like the anniversary, but we call it a Milestone Day. You can free up your time as an AM and ask other mages to share the load. We currently have an Anniversary Mage and are looking for a Milestone Mage.
9. Make the spire more fun by offering kp incentives to climb the spire. Not every week, but maybe once a month or once a season. Have spire parties, spire stories (a thread where you start a group adventure theme and everyone adds a line while climbing the spire). Just do whatever you can to promote it and make it fun. Likewise, make the chat more fun by drawing people into chat with quizzes, games or challenges. I know that the only prize available is kp, but people don't get tired of winning kp. It's not so much the prize that counts, anyway; it's the fun of feeling part of a good group. We have our Freaky Friday challenges once a week.
10. If you're going to be away, even for one day, make sure you let people know and leave someone you trust in charge. People like to know that their archmage is consistent and concerned with their game experience. Don't drop off the planet unless you've been hit by a Mack truck. Let people know you consider them first, when you're planning absences or vacations.
If I think of more I'll add them, but that's all I can come up with at the moment. We have a great deal of talent here, so I'm sure you guys can come up with good ones.
March 6: Two things were edited for clarification.
Recruiting and removing players takes a different path for me. I warn people when they missing requirements - usually with at least 2 weeks before a removal. I am pretty much a dictator as AM, but I have 2-4 Mages which I use as a sounding board to make sure I make reasonable decisions - often deferring to the council on decisions which I am on the fence. Also keeping them informed about the issues in the fellowship, helps your retention of them - my mages are the players I can least afford to lose. Finally, I very rarely recruit - I find it doesn't usually work. You are poaching other fellowships which is distasteful and rarely works in my experience. It is far better to take those ready to leave.
Dropping players are two varieties. A player that stops playing - they get dropped after they miss the 2nd Tourney, but after I have sent at least two notes at least 10 but more likely 14 or more days before any drop. Drops are always immediately following the Tourney. The only exception is those that join uninvited. I have accepted a few of those, but a hard drop is also appropriate - I usually add a good reason for the drop in the note reporting the drop to them.. Always communicate.
Then there are players that do not perform. Most of the time, I am more than reasonable. Identify (privately) exactly the problem and give time to remedy the situation. I also find being straight up with applicants helps - advising that missing any requirement in the first "X" weeks will be grounds for an immediate drop. I have not always done that. When I don't, it too often ends up being a mistake. I find a failure to communicate (by the non-performing player) is the easiest path to a drop. Frankly, any excuse will do and buy time, but a failure to respond is a really good reason to cut the player. I also use examples from my fellowship history of players that left because they felt "others" were not doing their fair share. Finally, I have found that near the end, it is appropriate to post directly in the fellowship chat a request the missing player read their IMs. I also find it helpful to communicate to your fellowship (outside of the offender) shortly before the player is cut. This lets them know what went wrong and and that you are defending their interest and that performance matters. It highlights that performance and communication matter and that empathy is available for real life. Also most weeks, I will note both good performance and that some players (in some weeks) are excused due to real life - a policy that encourages communication.
Rules are all well and good,, but empathy and communication are far more important attributes of a superior AM. All lines are mostly gray because Elvenar is ultimately a game and people matter far more.
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MichaelMichael
Day and Night Trader
I accept every 0 star trade from the bottom of my fellowship and encourage them. If you add up tourney points, you'd understand why. My production is about 2.4M/1.6M/1M standard goods for each of the three goods on the three tiers every day. What I give away amounts to nothing, but the goods generated by lower level players contributing to the tourney generates superior tourney rewards and adds up quite nicely.
Do I "have to accept them" no, but I do. In fact, it is only a few 2 star trades by the highest level players that I do not accept. Although at close of tourney, I may decline one or two trades.
Darielle
Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
Many of your comments were great and I appreciate them. I do have a difference of opinion on this comment, though .... I'd say It depends on your approach whether recruiting is successful. Fifteen of the players in my fellowship (in the top 20, last time I checked) were recruited by me from other fellowships. That sounds like success to me. Poaching occurs when you're stealing something from someone else, something they actually want. When I recruit, I look for good players in terrible fellowships. If the AM and other players treat them like garbage, why shouldn't I rescue that player? I've seen fellowships where 23 of 25 players haven't played in months, including the AM. Those two left have been breaking their necks trying to get two or three chests when their AM doesn't even add a few points to help. Often they are in the only fellowship they've ever known, and don't know how fellowships are supposed to work. They deserve better, and I give it to them. Several players have told me that if I hadn't asked, they were planning to quit the game soon. Since then, they have turned into million plus players. How would it have helped anyone if they had quit?
Most people toss around the word "poaching" for every type of recruiting, and that's doing a disservice to all rescuers like me. To me, "poaching" would be to ask players from successful fellowships, where AMs are always on the first page in the tourney, always active and trying. Or another case of poaching would be to target a new AM who is knocking her brains out trying to start building a successful team, and undermining her just because you happen to like the stats of one of her players. But to blanket all recruiting under the poaching label is unfair and simply wrong. Rescuing players is a good thing ... not a bad one.
Darielle
Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
An AM might prefer not to accept one star or zero star trades without a reason. Encouraging them for tourney and spire is fine, and I do ... but encouraging them for any other reason sometimes creates a dependent player who believes they should be given an unfair advantage whenever they want it. Some of them don't stop expecting such privileges even after they have quarter million or half million score. (And I'm not talking for spire and tourney here ... I mean just to stockpile.) They wind up being the detested players in the trader, the ones that cause headaches for people who have to carefully pick their way through the trader minefield and make sure they don't accidentally click anything. So yeah ... I agree that the tourney and spire are important for everyone and we help all our players get to the top. Last week we had 17 chests in the tourney and of course gold in spire. But no, I won't encourage "every" zero trade from players. But neither will I say that it's "wrong" to do so ... I think it's just different AMs have different mindsets.
Pheryll
Set Designer
I remember posting several 1 star trades just shy of the two star mark for fellowships adventures (when 100 goods were required in addition to the enchantments). When I posted 2 star trades of the low quantities, they quickly evaporated getting taken by players who were not even making badges with them.
Darielle
Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
That's what I like ... zero and one star trades with a specific purpose that will help the whole team instead of just one person. When they are only meant to enrich one person, I find them unfair. When they are meant to help the team, they are of benefit to the game and a great strategy.
MichaelMichael
Day and Night Trader
The only challenge I find to the strategy is that I have to monitor the player to make sure that they are creating and updating the manufacturies they need. Also at some point, I cut them off as they have a high enough score that they should be self-sufficient. But I also have a player with a score of only 200k that gains the fellowship 10,000 points in the tourney each week. If I could add 5 more players that would do that, we'd be getting 19 chests every week not 15.
In many regards, Elvenar is a team game. I play it as such. My policy, for example, is that no outsider gains the top chest from any player without significantly overpaying. If they bid below the top prize, I bid them up until they spend more that they get. I may lose, but the fellowship wins. More came in than went out.
BTW, Dependency is not a bad thing IMO, less recruiting, more performance. What more could a AM want? Each player and fellowship chooses their own strategy. Each has to find a path that works for them.
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MichaelMichael
Day and Night Trader
You are a good recruiter. I found the work to find that class of player daunting. I would look for a team with most player inactive and a player that was still kicking it in tourney. I found a few, but more often than not they were playing with family or were really tight with a few players. My fellowship has been strong for a while. Early on I was successful with a couple mergers to bring a fellowship from 10 to 20+ players. Most of the players from the mergers did not want to play as often as my fellowship does so we might keep 2 or 3 of the 6 that joined. But that did sort of work.
There are five major stages to growing performance focused fellowship.
- Going from 10 players to 20 that play regularly
- Convincing players to increase participation in the Tourney to get 10 chests (plans)
- Getting a majority of your 20+ players to climb the spire and perhaps earn gold the first time.
- Recruiting Spire climbers so you can get gold regularly (once every 2-5 weeks)
- Transitioning to a full Gold spire fellowship
Recruiting a player was often a 6 month process of making friends more than an appeal to be rescued In my experience.
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ZeNSiErT
Member
Hello
I would like to share some links from the German forum.
In 2021, my guild invented guild “forum events” for its fellow players. All countries were allowed to do the same.
It's fun for the community to create an event for the forum users. The community becomes known. We designed a new forum event every year.
de.forum.elvenar.com
de.forum.elvenar.com
The next point I would like to add is that the Archmage must be able to answer all questions about the game.
- It is important not only to demand points in the tournament, but also to explain how the points can be earned.
- It is important not only to demand growth and rank points, but also to give tips on city building.
- It is also important to know the rules of the game and explain them to other players.
- It is important not only to understand your own tactics. You also have to be able to “read” other cities. Look at your opponent's city first before giving tips!
I have created a guide for this in the forum. He's not finished yet. But many important things are explained there. This way you can send your fellow players a link and not have to explain the same thing 100 times.
de.forum.elvenar.com
The Archmage has a lot of responsibility for the success of the community. The Archmage can thank the players for their good efforts!
Members are allowed to praise their Archmage and say “Thank you” from time to time!
Have fun and success! Zensiert
I would like to share some links from the German forum.
In 2021, my guild invented guild “forum events” for its fellow players. All countries were allowed to do the same.
It's fun for the community to create an event for the forum users. The community becomes known. We designed a new forum event every year.
Mini-Event von Gilden für ihren Server
Liebe Menschen, liebe Elfen Die Waldwölfe aus Sinya Arda freuen sich, Euch ein neues Spiel vorstellen zu dürfen, bei dem Gilden für ihre Mitspieler ein kleines Mini-Event ausrichten dürfen. Gleich vorab, DIES IST KEIN OFFIZIELLER SPIELINHALT VON ELVENAR! Aber wir haben in den letzten Tagen von...
Mini-Event von Gilden für Sinya Arda
Liebe Menschen, liebe Elfen Die Waldwölfe aus Sinya Arda freuen sich, Euch ein neues Spiel vorstellen zu dürfen, bei dem Gilden für ihre Mitspieler ein kleines Mini-Event ausrichten dürfen. Gleich vorab, DIES IST KEIN OFFIZIELLER SPIELINHALT VON ELVENAR! Aber wir haben in den letzten Tagen von...
The next point I would like to add is that the Archmage must be able to answer all questions about the game.
- It is important not only to demand points in the tournament, but also to explain how the points can be earned.
- It is important not only to demand growth and rank points, but also to give tips on city building.
- It is also important to know the rules of the game and explain them to other players.
- It is important not only to understand your own tactics. You also have to be able to “read” other cities. Look at your opponent's city first before giving tips!
I have created a guide for this in the forum. He's not finished yet. But many important things are explained there. This way you can send your fellow players a link and not have to explain the same thing 100 times.
Spieler-Guide - Elvenar-Taktik für Erzmagiere und Teamplayer
Liebe Foren-User Hier entsteht ein umfassender Taktik-Guide. Es wird sicher einige Wochen brauchen, ich möchte noch verschiedene Bilder einfügen. Wird auch viel Text. Wenn ihr mir hierzu gerne Tipps, Anregungen, Kommentare geben möchtet, oder wenn Euch Fehler auffallen, teilt mir das bitte per...
The Archmage has a lot of responsibility for the success of the community. The Archmage can thank the players for their good efforts!
Members are allowed to praise their Archmage and say “Thank you” from time to time!
Have fun and success! Zensiert
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Darielle
Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
I think that everyone experiences different success rates with different formulas. What works for one may not work for another, and vice versa. But if you try to be respectful of fellowships and AMs that appear to be trying to grow their fellowship, and keep a hands off approach on those, then I think each recruiter should find their own niche that works well for them.
I like your list of steps ... pretty much what we did. I initiated a gold push once every steel tournament ... so not very often, but it was a way to break a silver group into the big leagues I gave lots of kp incentives and turned it into a real spire party, with virtual food and games. People got an initial enthusiasm for the spire that they never had before. After a few rounds of success (and lots of tutorials and tips to help those who truly hated the spire, as I once did) we never missed a push, so we changed to the first Sunday of the month to push. Once we had a few months of that under our belts, we swiched to every 2 weeks. Now, we've been hitting gold every week and we no longer have pushes or spire parties like we used to. Sometimes I miss them, but it's a lot easier now on my kp wallet.
Now that I've stepped down as archmage, the new one, Answered Sea, is having equal success. A minimum of 15 chests (sometimes 16 or 17) and weekly gold. I foresee us getting more tourney chests very soon. So yes, your step approach really works.
Myne
Oh Wise One
If you are an archmage grinding for points and standings, then you would welcome 24 more players with your style of play. I am more interested in having a group of motivated players who approach things in their own way and still find success. I find that the challenge of finding ways to help them in their journey is very satisfying. My original fellowship is very supportive of one another and have bonded. My second one is coming along nicely in that way too. IF I COULD JUST CONVINCE THEM TO HANG ON A BIT LONGER.
Darielle
Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
That's the challenge ... dealing with players who get disheartened too quickly. But the ones who stay and contribute make it all worthwhile, and eventually, you get to be at the top of your game ... whatever your fellowship considers to be the "top," since that varies. Still, it all comes together in the end. I know my first month as an archmage was pretty rocky, with a couple of people leaving who felt they should have gotten the job, and me scrambling to figure out what I was doing (and not doing it very well). In the end, it really worked, and if I hadn't taken a really demanding job, I'd still be doing it. But Answered Sea is fantastic ... I could not have picked a better successor if I'd tried. It all works out in the end.