When the game becomes a job, it's no longer fun

[Yavimaya]

Hey all, it's important to remember that with only text you cannot hear any tone of voice nor see any facial expression etc. Let's remember to think before we assume and if we are still thinking it doesn't look good just ask. I think it would help a lot of people. I've seen this happen to a few people. Most of us love Elvenar and are just trying to have some conversation. I love you all!

 

[MaidenFair]

@Deborah M, I understand your concerns about the forum. I lurked for months before I joined the forums and I was always frustrated by how military was presented as the only valid way to play by a huge majority of the posters (miss you @Iyapo1!), when I knew I didn't want to go that route. I know there are some other caterers here because occasionally someone will come out of the blue with a fascinating strategy on some post, but there is definitely less chatter about any way to play except hardcore military. This may be due in part to the fact that discussing negotiation strategy is largely discussing city build (which is necessarily extremely individual) since there's nothing to strategize about the instantaneous action of pressing the "cater" button, unlike fighting where you have to set up your city AND then do the actual battles.

But that's honestly one of the reasons I have stayed on the forums. I enjoy this game, and I enjoy the negotiating aspect, and I don't want other players who would prefer to play the way I do to think it's impossible and decide this game isn't for them. I just try to drop gentle reminders here and there that alternative playstyles are viable and fun, and suggest uncommon strategies (not fully upgrading manufactories, anyone??) so that any new or discouraged players who may be lurking see that it is possible to play all sorts of interesting ways successfully.

 

[Deborah M]

So schooling players in reading comprehension is the solution to the tone of the forum? I sincerely doubt that. Most of our forum contributors are well spoken so probably well read. It is just a sad state of affairs to hear newer players reject the forum that meant so much to me the first few years. It is also a sad state of affairs to not be able to offer alternatives without feeling like someone is jumping on correcting those alternatives.

I’m going to offer an example based on probably my first half of playing this game and I will include a forum contributor who I trust knows I highly respect them. I just read the forum for quite a while and learned pretty much anything I needed to know for a good start before I even registered. Contrary to what might be assumed, I think I learned more from @SoggyShorts than anybody else even though in the long run we have very different play styles in many ways. I also learned alternatives that helped make my play style my own. It wasn’t a matter of SoggyShorts having to be proven wrong for alternative approaches to be mentioned and discussed. That is actually my point. If the way someone plays makes the game fun for them that is great. It shouldn’t deter others from offering alternatives that have made the game fun for them.

@MaidenFair You posted while I was typing. I only cater in the Spire even when I do 3 levels and only auto battle the tournament. If I didn’t know better I would think I was doing it wrong

 

[shimmerfly]

I keep backspacing my input on this But...
Those who "know" me know that I always have played my own game.
No FS.. I don't always play well with others and get ornery. Neve been interested in being in any group.
No FA. (see above)....No sense in it for me and no incentive. I don't play the game to compete. Never felt the need.
I mostly cater and only tried fighting because of @samidodamage, ( thanks Sami) so, like @MaidenFair and others, I could care less about troop instants etc.
The forum has changed. It's become a bragging rights place and no really welcome to new players. Not many questions asked anymore from new players and that saddens me. They are the base of the game.
Like @Deborah M I learned a lot by lurking and when I joined the forum. I can truly say it was because of @SoggyShorts humor and helpfulness. He and a few other ( Muck and Ash) made me laugh. I read and read and it took a long time for me to post. I try to take people with a grain of salt so my feelings rarely get hurt.
I understand that we are all differnt.
All individual adults.
All really stupid sometimes ; ). and as equally OCD as I am.
Your're all good people. Let's just try to let that shine over the holidays and ino the new year.
RL sucks enough so lets have a good game and a great loving forum.
Wow that's a long one for me.. Huh AJ? The End
Oh and to the OP ..sorry to get off subject.

 

[ajqtrz]

Wow that's a long one for me.. Huh AJ? The End
Oh and to the OP ..sorry to get off subject.

LOL! Glad I've (maybe) influenced somebody for something!

AJ

 

[StarLoad]

Great posts, all of you, so maybe we should try a new way to HELP NEW PLAYERS and maybe guide them along, I don't know but I am sure WE as a collective can do something and do it better than we are now.

We can all step forward and fix this if we want to, right @muffy.

 

[muffy.]

You are sooooo right @ed1960
I think it’s bout time to get this show on the road !!!!

 

[Myne]

 

[defiantoneks]

not sure that it completely fits the thread, but in the vein of "becoming a job" and "no longer fun" -- I like the game plenty. and game play is what it is, sometimes fun and sometimes a slog. BUT adding to the forum and making suggestions for improvements is just about not worth the time. it becomes a battle just getting people to listen and not get into a nitpicking contest, or feel like you have to spell out every detail as if no one who works ON the game actually understands how to PLAY it. anyone who has played for long enough to have a couple of ancient wonders knows exactly what a pain it is when you aren't aware the research is complete. it's painfully obvious that there should be a notification. Yet, here i go writing and rewriting what should be clear to anyone who plays. the same goes for many of the improvements or fixes we suggest. add to that the likelihood that 99 percent get dismissed outright, or the discussion goes dead, etc so you wasted your time. THEN if, IF someone decides it gets a vote, we vote, have more nitpicking and clarification, and "maybe" it gets forwarded into oblivion. because even the forwarded ideas seem to go absolutely nowhere.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

What makes the game more of a job, than fun, for regular forum readers, is dealing with the commenters that get full of themselves and think they do no wrong, or that everyone else is always wrong. There is an Ignore list for those party poopers. I have had little disagreements in the past with @Deborah M and @SoggyShorts @Ashrem and others who have long since quite the forum or the game, or both, but even so, we can still have productive talks about the game and how things work and generally get along.

 

[Ashrem]

I have had little disagreements in the past with @Deborah M and @SoggyShorts @Ashrem and others who have long since quite the forum or the game, or both, but even so, we can still have productive talks about the game and how things work and generally get along.

Little disagreement are the spice of life. I get suspicious when everyone agrees.

edit: I don't even mind big disagreements. As you alluded, tt's entrenched positions that spoil things.

 

[shimmerfly]

Little disagreement are the spice of life.

Yep and it's okay to disagree. As long as you remember not to take anything too seriously or get nasty.
You never know when someone is having a bad day and takes something totally different than what you intended.
You've always made me look at things more than once Ash. And I thank you for that. Your input has been missed.

@defiantoneks
Keep the suggestions coming. That's the only way anyone can improve the game for all.
Ignore the negatives.

 

[YachtaYachta]

First thing I "get over with" each day are the neighborly help point and click, point and click, point and click.....

 

[Yavimaya]

@Deborah M I'm grateful to as they help me see my text can come off to others a completely opposite way of what I intended. I'm learning a lot here and will do my best to keep this stuff in mind and think longer and harder before making responses.

 

[ajqtrz]

@ajqtrz Na, not worth the aggravation. I have referred many players to the forum. This is what I hear back about this forum. “So we should battle all the way to level 3 of the spire and then battle through our part of more than 10 chests in the tournament? We shouldn’t have enough factories to negotiate either of them? We aren’t playing right if we care about growing our ranking because it is meaningless? We should dive into events endlessly so we don’t need to grow our city? We should use up all of our resources on the Fellowship Adventure even if it seems like a waste of time for how little we get from it? Half the Ancient Wonders are worthless? Is this game really about nothing but battling? Are the conversations always so condescending if someone doesn’t fall in line with these implied requirements to be playing the game right?” So, I have stopped recommending the forum to anybody. At the very least, reality is that more players cater than battle (verified by Elvenar). More Fellowship do not go for gold in the spire (based on spire rankings). More Fellowships do not do the entire Fellowship Adventure if any (based on FA rankings). I could go on but I’m sure I have quoted enough to bring on plenty of criticism. Years ago this forum was invaluable to newer players. Now I have to debunk impressions every time I recommend it. Great way to drive away new players who cannot even begin to meet implied expectations, especially since it is a slow process to build a high functioning city.

We often forget that forums, like the game, also mature. Players become experienced and certain of their position. Especially if they've done their homework. Yet, how often have I've heard, either said or implied, "I've been playing this game for years and I can tell you...." as if personal experience alone is sufficient for absolute knowledge.

At first, of course, nobody had "been playing this game for years," and thus the rigidity wasn't there. So when somebody said, "I do this when in this situation," others had to wonder and question. But, as our discussions have often shown, at this point, we aren't able to easily "re-suppose" what we have "presupposed" based upon our earlier experiences. Often this leads to a resistance to re-thinking our position, especially if we have always been the "champion" of that position. And, sadly, it also cuts off channels of communication as players block each other, become sensitive to each other's implied slights (whether actually intended or not).

If there be any solution to this, it might be in the form of adding to all our posts, "IMHO" and/or putting at the beginning and end of each post, and meaning it, "I could be wrong."

Of course, I could be wrong about this, too.

AJ

 

[Moho]

I've been on forums ever since I still nurtured the idealistic image of the global village where the entire world would become one happy family by means of Internet communities and communication. I went through the inferno of flame wars and witnessed the demise of the discussion board. They say forums are dead.

This forum is only thriving as an extension of Elvenar. I feel that whoever is reviving here the acrimonious animosity that has become the signature of today's Internet propaganda is going to taint a beautiful and successful game.

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And back to the topic, the game is fun so long as it is fun. It's common sense. No one is supposed to play Elvenar forever. Players come and leave. New players will always replace those who have decided to quit. It's just a game.