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    Your Elvenar Team

When to boot a player out...

Alram

Well-Known Member
(This is just for fun, like the thread about when you should find a new fellowship.)

When they demand to be named a mage so they can exact vengeance by kicking everyone out of the FS.
*true story! :D
 

Dreamyn2

Well-Known Member
When they get so upset that a person would add only 1 KP to their AW and start complaining about it, over and over. (Also a true story).

AJ
It bugs me when players add only 1. Why just 1 kp when I need 490? I don’t say anything (until now, lol) but I do wonder why. :)
Usually it’s a non-member trying to get a chest but fellowship members do this too.
 

Henroo

Well-Known Member
It bugs me when players add only 1. Why just 1 kp when I need 490? I don’t say anything (until now, lol) but I do wonder why. :)
Usually it’s a non-member trying to get a chest but fellowship members do this too.
I will admit there have been times I have dropped 1 KP on a neighbor's AW. Especially if it is nearly complete and there are lots of unclaimed chests remaining. If the chests are going to go unclaimed anyway, I don't think I am hurting anything. But giving 1 KP to a FS member's AW is different. That just seems cheap. I'm more generous with FS members.
 

ajqtrz

Well-Known Member
Yep, to get a chest. Nothing wrong with that since getting a chest may be the reason they do it. And, besides, if the chest isn't taken, why waist it? Better somebody get it and I get 1KP than nobody get it and I get 0 KP. Last time I checked, 1KP is more than 0KP, right.

Of course, the cause of a persons discomfort with getting only 1KP only is that the gift seems to say, "I'm not really being generous but just taking advantage of an opportunity to maximize my gain." If one makes that conclusion then there's an implied moral judgment that the person shouldn't be taking advantage of an opportunity for "purely" selfish reasons. And if we followed that line of moral reasoning we'd have to condemn most of the business in the world.

Just a thought.
 

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
"I'm not really being generous but just taking advantage of an opportunity to maximize my gain."
I am in FSs that do call outs in the chat. 5 chests left on my "whatever". And some of those have no bumping member rules.

In a FS that has rules against bumping FS members your quote should read "I am not really being generous when I put 1 kp on a top chest but just taking advantage of an opportunity to maximize my gain at the expense of my fellowship mate who will now only get 5 kp help".
And your saying that the FS mate who was robbed of help by a member of their own FS should not be upset?

In a FS with different bumping rules or kp threads this would not be a problem.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
I am in FSs that do call outs in the chat. 5 chests left on my "whatever". And some of those have no bumping member rules.

In a FS that has rules against bumping FS members your quote should read "I am not really being generous when I put 1 kp on a top chest but just taking advantage of an opportunity to maximize my gain at the expense of my fellowship mate who will now only get 5 kp help".
And your saying that the FS mate who was robbed of help by a member of their own FS should not be upset?

In a FS with different bumping rules or kp threads this would not be a problem.
My general rule is don't bump a fellowship member down to where they get back less KP than they put in. For example, if someone throws in 20KP and they are sitting on a chest that rewards 40KP, then as long as the other members do not bump them below the chest that rewards 20KP, all is good.
 

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
My general rule is don't bump a fellowship member down to where they get back less KP than they put in. For example, if someone throws in 20KP and they are sitting on a chest that rewards 40KP, then as long as the other members do not bump them below the chest that rewards 20KP, all is good.
I like flexible bumping rules, but the bumpers need to look at who is being bumped to what. It is not okay to jump in and cause any FS member on the wonder to actually lose KP, in my opinion. By this I mean:

If donor 1 puts 20 on a 40 then 3 other players donate less, then donor 5 puts 30 on the 40...did donor 4 have 10 on a 10kp and get bumbed down to a 5kp? Because that would mean donor 4 actually lost 5 kp. So donor 5 gained 10 kp at the actual expense of another FS member. IMO, when certain behaviors become habitual, they are a problem.


This is why I love kp swaps vs chat free for alls. Fixed rules. You can throw it at the swap and boom....a whole different set of problems ;)!
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
I am in FSs that do call outs in the chat. 5 chests left on my "whatever". And some of those have no bumping member rules.

In a FS that has rules against bumping FS members your quote should read "I am not really being generous when I put 1 kp on a top chest but just taking advantage of an opportunity to maximize my gain at the expense of my fellowship mate who will now only get 5 kp help".
And your saying that the FS mate who was robbed of help by a member of their own FS should not be upset?

In a FS with different bumping rules or kp threads this would not be a problem.
Inside a fellowship placing 1 KP is just unsportive, help out your fellows, do not take advantage of them.
Bumping a fellow to a lower position for more personal profit is the same thing.

Very unsportive conduct

Outside the fellowship it's a different thing, we do search for wonders and if "bumping" is not allowed it becomes a battle of who places 1 KP and "gains ownership" of a wonder from a solo leveling player.
There our rule is as long as the wonder is unclaimed (aka called out to be filled up) there is no ownership, some fanatic players can call ownership of so many wonders that there is no opportunity for other players to have there own personal finds. claiming ownership of someone elses wonders is therefore lame.

If a fellow is already in there we try to avoid any losses of that player. and if he/she is online he is usually called out to grab the second chest.
 

ajqtrz

Well-Known Member
In a FS that has rules against bumping FS members your quote should read "I am not really being generous when I put 1 kp on a top chest but just taking advantage of an opportunity to maximize my gain at the expense of my fellowship mate who will now only get 5 kp help".
And your saying that the FS mate who was robbed of help by a member of their own FS should not be upset?

In a FS with different bumping rules or kp threads this would not be a problem.
Since I've never considered bumping rules I never thought of this angle. It makes sense if you want to insure profit, but there's a much better way to do it and it takes no bumping rules. I'll explain later down.


This is why I love kp swaps vs chat free for alls. Fixed rules. You can throw it at the swap and boom....a whole different set of problems ;)!
Here's a better way to do what we call "Shout Outs."

We use "Shout Outs" in chat and they work well for us. We have no bumping rules and so far nobody has complained, though I can see how it could cause problems if you are doing the chests for profit. We do them to speed up things and trust that everyone is putting in about the same. However, lately we've moved to a new type of Shout Out that insures maximum profit for all and nobody gets bumped.

Normally our shout outs are: I'm within 100KP of the next upgrade and I have X number of unclaimed chests. That''s put in chat and whoever wants to claim a chest for whatever size donation they want to make does. It's usually done within a couple hours. The owner then finishes it, if necessary. That's a standard SO for us.

Our new SO is called a FSO. Here's how it works. A player with an AW they wish to upgrade in the next 24 hours AND who has the KP on hand to finish it puts in chat "FSO: [AW name]/[Number of Chests--optional]

If you respond you go to the AW and put in KP equaling the number of unclaimed chests....so never more than 7. The next player does the same, and eventually you get to the last chest at 1. So all the chests have the minimum amount of KP to claim the chest AND therefore, profit is at the maximum (or close enough to it since you could, theoretically put 1 one each chest -- hmmm...maybe that's an improvement?) In most cases the owner then polishes it off immediately and everybody contributing makes a lot of profit.

There are, of course, things that could happen with non fellowship players jumping in, but that's pretty rare since the 24 hour to finish rule makes it move very, very fast.

And, did I mention it's very profitable?

AJ
 

mikeledo

Well-Known Member
When they tell me I have a small manhood in not so polite words.
When they encourage others to leave .
When they use their alts to get all the prizes in an AW after building it up with the FS on the KP chain and then making sure they don't get any KP rewards.
When they haven't visited or played in any tournament in a month.
I was booted for overachieving and encouraging others to play the spire and placing badges during an FA when no one wanted to play.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
When they tell me I have a small manhood in not so polite words.
When they encourage others to leave .
When they use their alts to get all the prizes in an AW after building it up with the FS on the KP chain and then making sure they don't get any KP rewards.
When they haven't visited or played in any tournament in a month.
I was booted for overachieving and encouraging others to play the spire and placing badges during an FA when no one wanted to play.
call it a blessing, find a decent place where you are appreciated instead of a cesspit
 

frostyhc

New Member
(This is just for fun, like the thread about when you should find a new fellowship.)

When they demand to be named a mage so they can exact vengeance by kicking everyone out of the FS.
*true story! :D
When you get booted for know reason. True story happened to me.
 

HonuMoana

New Member
I was briefly in a group that was really, REALLY serious about doing the Neighborly Help EXACTLY as requested by each member in their city name. Hey, sometimes I want to blow through the list and just hit the one on the right. I started to get admonishing messages from the Arch, and their alts. I am pretty sure they would have booted, but I saved them the trouble and self-booted.