[Archived 02/2020] News from Beta

[dikke ikke]

Why not put the rate at 15, let the total of RR you get when reaching the 10th chest also be 15, and the price of a magic residence or workshop also be 15. Then most of the players will be happy, even those long time players that are maxed out at the end of amuni. I would be happy

 

[Pheryll]

This is the one that effects me the most.
It is really hard to put together a group of dedicated players in a pretty casual game.
Forging a team into a 10 chest FS was something to be proud of, and with the RR spell I was really hoping to attract players to my other 2 FS and turn those into 10 chest FS as well.

While it is indeed possible to implement the RR spell while maintaining a significant 10 chest reward, I hope that the laundry list of things that must be kept does not ultimately cause the Elvenar staff to throw their hands up and never implement the spell. A significant challenge in a casual game setting creates an interesting, but unique balance that is difficult to work around, especially if a rebalance is called for.

 

[Mykan]

While it is indeed possible to implement the RR spell while maintaining a significant 10 chest reward, I hope that the laundry list of things that must be kept does not ultimately cause the Elvenar staff to throw their hands up and never implement the spell.

I would not expect this to be the case. There are only a couple matters for inno to review, once they are happy it will go through. Whether or not we as a player base like it is a very different matter, but that doesn't have to stop them (and historically hasn't). It would look like we are facing a mechanical shift in how blueprints and magic buildings inter-relate, such that 1 tournament might not equal 1 upgrade.

 

[Yogi Dave]

Not being on beta, I can't post there but have read the thread about the RR spell and this thread with great interest. I agree there are problems which need to be addressed about the spell and I'm very glad Inno has withdrawn it for now. Specifically the conversion ratio and the devaluing of the 10th chest are the two issues most talked about and need addressing. Those issues have been discussed at length. My thoughts on what to do follows what many have said. A 20 RR for 1 BP, doesn't seem out of bounds. I don't favor keeping BP for magic building, which I'll explain in a moment. I also think the 10th chest being more important than all the others is very important. However, I've also thought it being the only way to get a free upgrade to magic building was not fair to the players at large as it is out of reach for most. Therefore having RR spells in the earlier chest is a great idea. 11 RRs for the whole tournament is not. Maybe have 4 or 5 spread out in the lower chest and 15 in the 10th chest would be a good solution since getting the 10th chest will still be worth the extra work and would pretty much allow an upgrade to top level magic buildings.

Now, there's an issue that hasn't really been addressed in what I've read, but maybe I missed it. That is having to use a blueprint to upgrade the lower level magic buildings. Using a blue print to upgrade a level 1 house is overkill, like using a sledgehammer to kill a fly. Getting into an FS that gets the 10th chest in the first place isn't normally done by someone who is in the first chapter or two unless they are a known from another world, so not many people in the first couple of chapters will have a blueprint anyway. If they do, having to use it to increase population by 90 in a level 1 resident when the top level one increases it by 1000 is obviously not fair. Having the upgrades based on squares makes this aspect of RRs much more equitable for those people. Yes, they can upgrade more than one building with the 20 RRs, but not the 11 it would take to almost get 1000 pop. increase. This is one reason I prefer a conversion of BP to RR and not keeping the BP for magic buildings.

The other is having the developers change code back to keep the BP as it is while also having RRs would probably delay the release of it much longer than simply adjusting the conversion ratio.

Like just changing the conversion ratio, changing the mix of rewards for the chest should not require code change. The delay should only be for Inno to decide on the conversion ratio, and the mix of RRs in the tournament chests. Then it should be a trivial database change to reflect the manager's decisions.

 

[Pheryll]

A 20 RR for 1 BP, doesn't seem out of bounds.

Think of a free player getting 20 RR a week. If he is at the end of the chapters then this is 520 squares of event buildings that can be upgraded for each chapter release. I think the Elvenar staff think this figure is too high, however for the paying players, a bit more is needed to offset the large number of magic residences/workshops. That bit more is already starting to be provided by high goods producing event buildings, however many paying players are looking for the high score, and tearing down blue buildings for the goods producing event buildings does not seem intuitive.

 

[Yogi Dave]

Think of a free player getting 20 RR a week. If he is at the end of the chapters then this is 520 squares of event buildings that can be upgraded for each chapter release..

The conversion of 20 RR for 1 BP is a one time thing when the RR is released, not each week. The conversion is about BPs that have already been earned. They should not be so drastically devalued.

 

[Yogi Dave]

That bit more is already starting to be provided by high goods producing event buildings, however many paying players are looking for the high score, and tearing down blue buildings for the goods producing event buildings does not seem intuitive.

I like this comment. It is tough to decide to sell something you paid for and, as you said, it will lower your ranking, but you are right. The Winter Market set is extremely powerful in goods production when doubly linked. Players take note. Yet another direction and adjustment to your game may be at hand besides the RR spell.

 

[DeletedUser3297]

The conversion of 20 RR for 1 BP is a one time thing when the RR is released, not each week. The conversion is about BPs that have already been earned. They should not be so drastically devalued.

The conversion should be whatever the cost of a magic residence is. A 10 chest tournament should contain enough RR spells to upgrade a magic building... A 9 chest tournament should contain LESS than half of the RR spells that the 10th chest has.

So if you have a 10 square magic residence or an 18 square magic residence, it doesn't matter. It will cost your entire rewards from a 10 chest tourney to upgrade it, no matter the size.

 

[Pheryll]

Maybe the desirable solution is to make magic buildings cost half the number of RRs as the squares they will occupy when the upgrade is complete.

 

[DeletedUser3297]

Maybe the desirable solution is to make magic buildings cost half the number of RRs as the squares they will occupy when the upgrade is complete.

No....

A fixed cost has already been applied to the diamond upgrade. That same fixed cost should STILL apply to the SAME buildings as they have been for years...

 

[Pheryll]

No....

A fixed cost has already been applied to the diamond upgrade. That same fixed cost should STILL apply to the SAME buildings as they have been for years...

And what is your long term reasoning for this? Having 11 RR plus the 50% reduction on magic buildings is cheaper for Amuni chapter and probably the next than the 1 blueprint. Do you think that after the Amuni you will need more space for residences?

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

And what is your long term reasoning for this? Having 11 RR plus the 50% reduction on magic buildings is cheaper for Amuni chapter and probably the next than the 1 blueprint. Do you think that after the Amuni you will need more space for residences?

Yes, the next chapter will require more space for the Magic Residence. Looking at the size per chapter, the residence and workshop get two chapters at the same size, and chapter 12 and 13 were the same size for the residence, so chapter 14 will be bigger, probably going from the current max of 4x4 to either 3x6 or 6x3, maybe even 4x5 or 5x4, but that would be a bigger increase than any previous time. I guess there is also a slim chance they could get smaller, since that did happen one time when going from chapter 5 to 6.

The Magic Workshops should stay the same size, though, since chapter 13 is the first chapter at that size.

As for the RRs, I can see them making a 10-chest tournament hand out 20 when you open all the chests, in case the chapter 14 residences are 20 squares. Then you would get enough to upgrade in chapter 14 just like a BP would from the 10th chest. But that still leaves the issue that a chapter 11+ workshop being 21+ squares, so 20 RRs would not be enough to equal 1 BP for that. Then the only way to keep it fair relating to the high chapter workshops is to put even more RRs in the tournament chests. Or they may just add them into other places to earn them and say to add them all together if you need 24 RRs for your chapter 13 magic workshop.

But yeah, 20 RRs could go something like this: 0 in the first 5 chests, then chest 6 would have 1, chest 7 would have 2, chest 8 would have 3, chest 9 would have 4, and chest 10 would have 10, for a total of 20. that still makes the 10th chest worth it. Or if they want to restrict them a bit more, then 15 from all 10 chests, with chest 6-8 have 1 each, chest 9 have 2 and chest 10 have 10. Or to let the smaller fellowships have a little access, give them out in the even numbered chests, so 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10 would contain 1, 1, 1, 2, and 10 respectively. Or even 1 each in each odd-numbered chest and then 10 more in the 10th chest. Then my fellowship, which tends to complete maybe 4 chests a week when we are not pushing hard, could still get a couple a week and upgrade something in a few weeks.

 

[Pheryll]

Yes, the next chapter will require more space for the Magic Residence. Looking at the size per chapter, the residence and workshop get two chapters at the same size, and chapter 12 and 13 were the same size for the residence, so chapter 14 will be bigger, probably going from the current max of 4x4 to either 3x6 or 6x3, maybe even 4x5 or 5x4, but that would be a bigger increase than any previous time. I guess there is also a slim chance they could get smaller, since that did happen one time when going from chapter 5 to 6.

I really do not care about the new residence size, but the total space allocated for all of them. Each chapter requires more guest race space and more space for the upgrades of other buildings, that the few expansions offered may not justify expanding the amount of total space the residences take up. If you have a purely blue set up, you can afford to delete a few to make room for the larger size of the rest; this would reduce the amount of upgrades you need each chapter. If you are not pure blue, then you are relying on the static cost to make your residence space an increasing percentage higher of blue to non-blue; thus paying the same each chapter increases the percentage of magic to non-magic. In both cases, switching to a cost per square, would keep the percentage as is, while not reducing the cost any further; thus making the cost to effect ratio per chapter a much more static number.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I really do not care about the new residence size, but the total space allocated for all of them. Each chapter requires more guest race space and more space for the upgrades of other buildings, that the few expansions offered may not justify expanding the amount of total space the residences take up. If you have a purely blue set up, you can afford to delete a few to make room for the larger size of the rest; this would reduce the amount of upgrades you need each chapter. If you are not pure blue, then you are relying on the static cost to make your residence space an increasing percentage higher of blue to non-blue; thus paying the same each chapter increases the percentage of magic to non-magic. In both cases, switching to a cost per square, would keep the percentage as is, while not reducing the cost any further; thus making the cost to effect ratio per chapter a much more static number.

Considering the magic residence and the normal residence are the same size in each chapter, I would expect that whatever we get for chapter 14, it will include having an increase in the size of the normal residence too, if they follow their established pattern. So a chapter 14 house would need more room/use more squares, but a chapter 14 workshop would not. Looking at the wiki, the main hall should stay the same size for one more chapter, while the Tier 3 goods will get a size increase in chapter 14, as will armories and the training ground. And of course, the barracks changes shape, and usually number of squares, every chapter. So yes, if they follow their pattern, more space will definitely be needed in chapter 14 for normal buildings, plus who knows what they will do with the actual guest race buildings. It is late at night here and I hope this is not just a tangent I ran off on and actually answers a question or two. lol

 

[Pheryll]

Considering the magic residence and the normal residence are the same size in each chapter, I would expect that whatever we get for chapter 14, it will include having an increase in the size of the normal residence too, if they follow their established pattern.

Most people that go pure normal residences have about the same number of squares devoted to residences from the orc chapter on. They just delete the excess as the residences get bigger. I don't think there is/ should be much difference in the magic residence model. We know how many expansions we are getting in the next chapter. 1 expansion by research techs. Yes, there are 2 premium added then, but the price for those is so high that even jps has made comments about not pursuing them. In general after Amuni, people will be close to finishing all expansions via world map, so it is basically one expansion to cover for all the building size increases, which should have little impact on the total number of squares taken up by residences.

 

[hvariidh gwendrot]

i still say the easier fix is to use the crafting to have a recipe for RR spells/with drop down menu (vs this random hell they put me through) then we can each decide when and if we wish to make the RR spell and leave blueprints as something to win in 10th chest .. if the crafting of RR spells is done the same way with the math to what chapter the player is in, then the RR spells would be adjusted to fit each chapter and conversion rates would apply specific to players at each level

 

[Risen Malchiah]

As it is, I try to check each city every crafting cycle, hunting for the elusive military buildings. I wouldn't want to put RR spells into the hands of the RNG gods or they'll never show up when I want them to.

 

[hvariidh gwendrot]

i'm going to start sending ticket's in about horrible items to craft every 8 hrs and let them share the pain

 

[DeletedUser9601]

i'm going to start sending ticket's in about horrible items to craft every 8 hrs and let them share the pain

It's really not a bad system. You're just expecting too much from it. There are a bunch of meh options, but they let you churn mystical essences to open chests easily. And there's lots of good buildings that show up periodically.

It's a fair complaint that the recipe list is bloated, but that's mostly personal preference.
Access to every recipe at once is an unreasonable expectation. No game has this system.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

It's really not a bad system. You're just expecting too much from it. There are a bunch of meh options, but they let you churn mystical essences to open chests easily. And there's lots of good buildings that show up periodically.

It's a fair complaint that the recipe list is bloated, but that's mostly personal preference.
Access to every recipe at once is an unreasonable expectation. No game has this system.

Yeah, I think I have seen everything possible come up at least once or twice since the crafting system was added.

The thing I would change about the system would be to make each of the five crafting spots a specific category, so that we don't have five instants or five relics at one time. And if they made this change, maybe also lower the refresh from 8 hours to 6 hours.