[Archived 02/2020] News from Beta

[Risen Malchiah]

@Pheryll What are the averages for the Magic Workshops? Because those are gonna get real expensive to upgrade.

They could potentially solve some of this by simply making the premium buildings a fixed 10 RR to upgrade and make event buildings tile-based. I'm not sure my 5x5 event buildings are worth 2.5x the cost to upgrade a premium residence, but it's something I could live with if it doesn't screw over diamond players.

 

[DeletedUser12171]

Anyone here know if the RR cost is for the dimensions before or after the upgrade. Looking at elf (not human) and only counting the 12 available upgrades if you take the dimensions average from before upgrades you get exactly 10, if you take the dimensions average from after upgrades you get exactly 11. If you instead average all current dimensions for all 13 tiers you get 10.46. I think the Elvenar calcuation to get to 10 was just averaging the 13 tiers instead of averaging the upgrade values.

This is evident from Marindor's reply

If they go by this line of reasoning, then the fair treatment would be to make EVERY UPGRADE of a magic building COST 10 RRs along with the 1 bp = 10 RR conversion rate. Doing as they did now is STUPID because it makes sense only to a Chapter 1 player buying a Chapter 1 Magic Building and upgrading it all the way through Chapter 12. THEN and ONLY THEN will you have an "average 10 RR for 1 upgrade". Now, how many such players are there that have been getting 10 chests and have a store of BPs just waiting to upgrade their Magic Buildings? My guess is 0. I'm in chapter 11 now. Guess what my average RR upgrade cost per magic building is? That's right, it's "MORE THAN 10".

 

[DeletedUser188]

This is todays announcement

Marindor
Community Manager
Elvenar Team
Joined:
Feb 26, 2015
Hi everyone,

We would like to thank every single one of you who took the time to provide us with constructive and elaborate feedback on the current implementation of the Royal Restoration Spell in our feedback thread.

The main goal of the early beta tests of this feature on beta was to not only squat all potential bugs prior to the live release, but also to give everyone the opportunity to provide us with this kind of feedback for us to consider for improvements. We got to see a lot of different perspectives and read some very valid points, both positive and negative. With this feedback in mind, we have gathered again to analyse and discuss further possibilities to make the implementation of our planned feature to upgrade summonable buildings as enjoyable as possible, while at the same time not tipping our delicate game balance. We would now like to take the necessary time to reconsider some assumptions and back up all concerns, examples and ideas with additional data analyses to re-iterate on the concept. Thanks to your feedback, we have also discovered some technical flaws that we would like to address at the same time.

Seen as the Christmas holidays are just around the corner, this means that we will not be taking any further steps towards the rollout on live markets or release any more updates on beta this year. We feel that hasty decisions would be the wrong approach for this complex topic. As such, we will deactivate the Royal Restoration Spell on beta for the time being and revert all Royal Restoration Spells back to Blueprints so that you can continue using them for upgrades of magical buildings. This also means that the tournaments will reward you with Blueprints as they did in the old system. Should there be any more Spells than increments of 10 in your inventory, we will of course round the results of the exchange up in your favor (e.g. 11 Royal Restoration Spells would be equal to 1.1 Blueprints and hence be converted back to 2 Blueprints). All upgrades made to buildings will be kept in place.

We shall then keep you posted on any adjustments to the initial release plan in January, to provide you with an update on this topic and see how we proceed with the implementation of this feature that will ultimately enable you to upgrade your summonable event buildings.

 

[DeletedUser12171]

If anything, this whole issue just shows how disconnected the devs are with the playerbase. It's like when politicians make policy on theory instead of feeling the ground. I'm not saying that theory is unimportant, but the best approach should be a middle ground between the two.

In theory the "average of 10" number works, but do they really not realize that it's the older players who will have the most existing blueprints and will be worked over by that awful conversion rate? A simple flat rate to upgrade Magic buildings would have done the trick, but they totally missed that one out. New Tourney gives 11 RR for 10 chests? Make each upgrade 11 RR and 1:11 bp conversion ratio. Then, all our existing BPs don't lose any value and you still get to upgrade 1 magic building per 10 chests. Players who can't or are unwilling to do 10 chests can still upgrade their buildings, albeit at a slower rate. It's a fair deal.

That the devs actually missed this entirely either suggests they are a clueless bunch or that they know full well, and are doing it on purpose. Neither scenario is particularly hopeful from the player's perspective.

 

[Jackluyt]

I am not as fussed about the RR Spells as many other players. I play the Tournaments for KP to upgrade my Wonders - and will get several hundred every week, just like before.
I don't buy Magic Buildings so the Blueprints never bothered me - and neither will the RR, which I regard as incidental to my main reason for being a devoted Tournament player, with my two ten-chest fellowships backing me.

 

[DeletedUser3507]

I am not as fussed about the RR Spells as many other players. I play the Tournaments for KP to upgrade my Wonders - and will get several hundred every week, just like before.
I don't buy Magic Buildings so the Blueprints never bothered me - and neither will the RR, which I regard as incidental to my main reason for being a devoted Tournament player, with my two ten-chest fellowships backing me.

Jack your just so strange...

 

[Risen Malchiah]

Hoorary for them pulling the RR from beta and reverting to blueprints until they re-evaluate the conversion rates and such.

I feel bad for anyone who actually used their RR spells in beta though. It seems they might get shafted a bit if they already used them up.

 

[DeletedUser12171]

I am not as fussed about the RR Spells as many other players. I play the Tournaments for KP to upgrade my Wonders - and will get several hundred every week, just like before.
I don't buy Magic Buildings so the Blueprints never bothered me - and neither will the RR, which I regard as incidental to my main reason for being a devoted Tournament player, with my two ten-chest fellowships backing me.

If you, like many here, are an invested player, you SHOULD be fussed, because this shows a certain mentality and thought process of the devs. You'll get burnt by it some day

 

[The Unbeliever]

I think everyone needs to just take a breath and stop seeing only the greatest personal negative in this...
a) Yes, the late game players get a slight to moderate nerfing with the changes as they initially are.

b) Opening up RR spells in tournaments beyond just the bare handful of the most active 10-chest fellowships is a fething GREAT MOVE on Inno's part.
Anyone else remember the initial scoffing/vitriol over how "who cares about RR, it'll still just be only for those already OP 10-chest fellowships and the other 95% of the players can still go kiss themselves somewhere rude!" *rabble*rabble*rabble*
So now that Inno is giving near game-wide access to this new feature just for reaching the 3rd chest, which is easily attainable for even the most fluff bunny of inactive fellowships, we're rioting?

c) It's not like RR spells won't be (very likely) handed out like candy during the Spring, Summer, Fall & Winter events either...
Or you know, as eventual prizes in the numerous smaller mini-event quest lines, or the (still bloody hate them) Fellowship MISadventures.

d) Crafting also is a thing now, and Inno have already come out and said that they will be periodically updating the lists of what can be crafted.
Portal Profit spells & KP instants are ready in there, along with basic spells. No reason not to assume that this will not also turn into yet another source of potential RR spells.

R.E.L.A.X
I'm pretty sure that eventually, before next year is out, we will have so many ways of acquiring steady supplies of RR spells that the supposed murderous theft done to those few 'Blue City' players in this initial rollout won't even out in the end.

 

[DeletedUser3507]

I think everyone needs to just take a breath and stop seeing only the greatest personal negative in this...
a) Yes, the late game players get a slight to moderate nerfing with the changes as they initially are.

b) Opening up RR spells in tournaments beyond just the bare handful of the most active 10-chest fellowships is a fething GREAT MOVE on Inno's part.
Anyone else remember the initial scoffing/vitriol over how "who cares about RR, it'll still just be only for those already OP 10-chest fellowships and the other 95% of the players can still go kiss themselves somewhere rude!" *rabble*rabble*rabble*
So now that Inno is giving near game-wide access to this new feature just for reaching the 3rd chest, which is easily attainable for even the most fluff bunny of inactive fellowships, we're rioting?

c) It's not like RR spells won't be (very likely) handed out like candy during the Spring, Summer, Fall & Winter events either...
Or you know, as eventual prizes in the numerous smaller mini-event quest lines, or the (still bloody hate them) Fellowship MISadventures.

d) Crafting also is a thing now, and Inno have already come out and said that they will be periodically updating the lists of what can be crafted.
Portal Profit spells & KP instants are ready in there, along with basic spells. No reason not to assume that this will not also turn into yet another source of potential RR spells.

R.E.L.A.X
I'm pretty sure that eventually, before next year is out, we will have so many ways of acquiring steady supplies of RR spells that the supposed murderous theft done to those few 'Blue City' players in this initial rollout won't even out in the end.

No....No.... And Noooooooo........... Not waiting another year.
I am like the Government I want it yesterday...

 

[The Unbeliever]

If you're like the government, then you also should be demanding payment in blood...
Or your first-born - gotta start them young after all.

 

[Pheryll]

Or also like the government; it does not matter how much you get, you just increase your spending regardless.

 

[DeletedUser3297]

It's been said before and I will say it again. The cost to upgrade a magic residence with diamonds is a FIXED cost, therefore it should ALSO be a fixed cost to upgrade with RR spells.

Blueprints should be converted to RR spells so players can decide what to use them on. However, that conversion rate should be the same as a magic building upgrade.
Example: 1 BP equals 10 RR

Every magic building (no matter the chapter) will require 10RR spells to upgrade.

This will leave summonable buildings to upgrade by squares (just as the devs want) and just as they should.

It cannot be that complicated to pull magic buildings out of the current square upgrade and put it back into a fixed upgrade. Just so you know, they already figured that one out with the diamond cost, that is a fixed cost, so the RR spell should also be a fixed cost.

 

[DeletedUser12171]

I think everyone needs to just take a breath and stop seeing only the greatest personal negative in this...

On the contrary, many of the people who took issue with the BP conversion rate, myself included, do not actually have any issues with the other aspects of the implementation at all.

The only other as-yet unresolved issue is, will 10-chest FSs be less attractive, since RRs are not limited to the 10th chest. To be honest, this is a more contentious issue as it has the potential of alienating the small guy if not handled properly. The BP conversion issue is simply that people who have ALREADY WON BPs, which actually have direct RL cash value of 320 diamonds per piece right now, should not be shortchanged.

It's a GOOD thing people actually made as much noise as they did because now the devs are re-looking the issue. In an alternate universe, nobody would have said anything and we'd all have swallowed the bitter pill.

 

[Pheryll]

On the contrary, many of the people who took issue with the BP conversion rate, myself included, do not actually have any issues with the other aspects of the implementation at all.

They might have had even less issue with the exchange rate if the release was done a couple weeks after the release of the next chapter, giving them the ability to do a significant dump of their stockpile.

 

[DeletedUser12171]

They might have had even less issue with the exchange rate if the release was done a couple weeks after the release of the next chapter, giving them the ability to do a significant dump of their stockpile.

perhaps, yes. the damage would have been reduced but there would still have been damage.

at this point I'll just be honest about my situation. I have been in a 10-chest FS for almost a full year now. we've gotten a blueprint every week. Right now, I have enough bps to upgrade all my magic buildings through Amuni. The assurance of being able to upgrade magic buildings by completing 10 chests helped me to a) decide to purchase magic buildings to begin with and b) decide how many I should buy. The bottom line is I don't want to spend 320 diamonds per magic building each chapter. Call me cheap or whatever, but that was the reward the devs set for hitting 10 chests - a blueprint, i.e. a cash-free upgrade of one magic building - so we earned it fair and square.

Now, I know that RRs have more functions than a BP so there will need to be some rebalancing going on somewhere. That is not the issue, as many people seem to think - that we blueprint holders are greedy or whatsoever. If there needs to be rebalancing, SO BE IT. My hope is that every 10 chests still result in a cash-free magic building upgrade, but if it has to be changed then let it be. But whatever I have already earned, leave it alone is all we are saying. I earned 25 magic building upgrades by completing 10 chests for the past 25 weeks, and a fair deal would be these 25 upgrades are locked in, no matter how things differ down the road. As it is, devs have said each magic building upgrade will continue to cost 320 diamonds - i.e. they are not making the upgrades more expensive so why should we accept a reduction in ability of each blueprint to upgrade 1 building after conversion?

Some of you think it's a small issue. Now, 25 BPs right now have a cash equivalent value of AT LEAST USD 53, if I take the lowest diamond purchase rate of USD 200 for 30,000 diamonds. How'd you like it if I took a $50 from you and gave you back half that or less in return just like that? If you are cool with a move like that, please be friends with me, because I have an interesting proposition for you in "re-balancing" your money.


I hope, after I've put forward so many iterations of the same thing, that things are clearer for those of you who don't seem to understand why we are up in arms about this.

 

[Pheryll]

My hope is that every 10 chests still result in a cash-free magic building upgrade, but if it has to be changed then let it be. But whatever I have already earned, leave it alone is all we are saying.

Exactly what I thought the sentiment would be. How about this? Keep blueprints; keep RR. The blueprint is at the 10th chest; RR may be scattered at lower chests, or FA, events, crafting, or wherever else. The tournaments get a bit harder for many people (balanced as if you are actively taking each optional squad size available). Magic buildings (residence or workshop) can be built with diamonds or with a blueprint (may need a second interface, and may have other costs associated such as guest race goods for that chapter). These buildings, however will upgrade with RR equal to their new size. Here you have the option of upgrade, or delete and rebuild; also, the delete and rebuild allows for you to update every other chapter if you cannot get enough blueprints, so while getting blueprints will be harder, you will not need as many if you are content with a slight lag every other chapter.

 

[DeletedUser3507]

Lag sux....

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

There is a very simple solution to the whole conversion thing. Why does Inno have to do it for us? Why don't we get the option to manually convert BPs one at a time, when we need to, into RRs? If you have BPs in your inventory, you get to keep them until you use them on a Magic building or you choose to convert one or more into RRs to upgrade an Event building.

And if people really want to earn a BP and not just RRs, add an 11th chest to the tournaments that will hold the BP. Or move the BP as a prize from the tournaments to the Fellowship Adventures as part of the third stage prize. You can still earn one every month or two, depending on FA schedule, and you can earn RRs weekly from the tournament instead.

 

[SoggyShorts]

The only other as-yet unresolved issue is, will 10-chest FSs be less attractive, since RRs are not limited to the 10th chest.

This is the one that effects me the most.
It is really hard to put together a group of dedicated players in a pretty casual game.
Forging a team into a 10 chest FS was something to be proud of, and with the RR spell I was really hoping to attract players to my other 2 FS and turn those into 10 chest FS as well.

They way they spread the RR around the chests on beta left me with a pretty pathetic sales pitch:
"Hey there, want to work 10x as hard for double the reward?"

By all means, give casual, small fellowships a taste, enough to entice them to play more and earn more, but don't give it all away for nothing.