A possible inducement for players to do more helps

[Vergazi]

I feel like we aren't arguing ideas or facts there, but arguing about perspectives to some degree. Some players spend more time on the game than others do and many simply don't have lots of time to invest in the game to the degree they can chat and hang out and chew the fat with their fellows. That's fine, people have different lives irl, but the fact remains to my mind that the help dynamic is as out of whack for the current game as, perhaps, the trader is in it's own way. The neighborly helps could use some tweaking, it's just a matter of what and how much imo.

 

[Crowella]

The reason I focused on returning neighborly help is that it's the only way to ALSO get supplies. Coins, while they have some impact, are relatively plentiful in early gameplay. I still haven't seen a good argument for why Inno would want us to give more neighborly help. Sure, knowing you have active neighbors is nice, but if your only interaction is a notification and some coins you don't need that much, is that really all that great?

Again, the question I'm trying to ask is, why would Inno want us to increase neighborly help? It already provides sufficient benefits that most active players seem to do it at least occasionally. The sort of inducements described here in terms of AWs would affect mostly larger players who are already incentivized to provide help via their need for coins.

Any increase in neighborly help would most likely accrue to fellowship members rather than new players in any case.

I'm still not convinced this suggestion fills a need.

 

[Vergazi]

@Crowella neighborly helps are a beginning when you first start the game. You are new and do not know anyone or anything, in most cases. It's human nature to seek out others and cultivate a sense of community and belonging. Our shared experience in this game is a bond that links us all to one another. Neighborly helps often grow into trade or social relationships that can accomplish many things. I see them like a kind of "social seed" in the game that can help relationships to form and grow. This is especially important when one is forming a fellowship and working to make very different people into a cohesive team working for the same goals. So you ask

why would Inno want us to increase neighborly help?

. If what i have said in no way answers your question then I sincerely doubt that anything I could say will be sufficient for you. Happy gaming!

edited for typos

 

[Crowella]

I am relatively new to Elvenar, but I've been playing MMOs for more than a decade. I'm familiar with being part of a community. I also have benefited greatly from having a magnificent neighbor near my city.

HOWEVER, the neighborly help mechanism is not a significant part of the benefits of that relationship, which have primarily been in him accepting trades and offering encouragement. I do understand what you're saying, I just don't agree with it.

 

[DeletedUser20951]

There's a ton to like in this thread AND I AM HIGHLY PLEASED. Besides voicing my approval, I also wanted to address the OP again and point out that the aid chests are more beneficial to newbies than later staged players, as gathering spells and relics is a difficult task in the beginning, with tournaments not always being a feasible option due to a lack of goods and units. They would still be hindered by less discovered neighbors, but a chance of more chests would ultimately help out in that respect.

 

[Ashrem]

the neighborly help mechanism is not a significant part of the benefits of that relationship

That's what I've been saying all along. The point some of us are arguing is that is should be. Retention of new players is low. They can't even see the trade benefit until they've stuck around long enough to build the trader. The majority of abandoned cities do not even have a trader yet, so never experienced the current primary benefit of the trader before giving up.

I do understand what you're saying, I just don't agree with it.

That's perfectly fine. A point I have made repeatedly elsewhere (and which you'll see if we engage often) is that debating in a public forum is almost never about changing the mind of the person/people you are debating. It's a battle for the opinions of the people who are looking on but not bothering to participate. I almost never expect someone I'm debating to change their position, but I will continue to counter any opposing argument if there is a reasonable counter. You are entirely within your rights to do the same.

 

[Socrates28]

Considering adding additional chests and the mobile - pc divide on them, I visit everyone I can every day. I take the coins and what supplies they give. I guess I am considered a big city as I am in Elementals. I use the pc for helps until I get the three chests and then move to mobile because it is quicker and easier to visit 100's of cities on the world map. If more chests were given, or the chance for more chests were given, depending on what the chances were I might visit a few more on the pc. However, overall the time vs reward consideration would have to be overwhelming to visit every city on the pc. In summery, I really don't think it makes a difference at my stage and it did make a big difference at earlier stages. Overall I don't think it needs to change.
I do like the collect all idea. Nice thought.

 

[Vergazi]

I believe @Ashrem is spot on is focusing on the new player/retention angle. I admit I could have communicated that more effectively in the OP, but I'll leave that as it is and just add that, anecdotally, much of the new revenue to Inno may well be from new players that stay on long enough to get hooked by all this wonderful game has to offer. It's just unfortunate that it takes so long to really get to be more compelling and just plain fun.

Getting to return help 20 or 30 times a day (without even being in a FS) would give them a substantial source of coins and supplies, and give them targets to aim for in their explorations, regardless of their culture level.

Right on. In the first chapter I needed all the coin and supply help i could get. It sped up progressing into chapter 2 and kept my interest until the game got more complex and more to do in it.

It would be interesting to see where players "drop off" in terms of gameplay. Based on my observation of dead cities around me, of course the steepest dropoff is almost immediately after people complete the tutorial (or even before).

Exactly! yes! The game is slow to get going...too slow for many, i suspect, who in this day and age have developed very short attention spans in general. Speeding it up with coins and supplies helps to get these players past the, dare I say, boring part of the game (chapter1 ).

It's far more important for very new players to feel like the game isn't abandoned

Absolutely and irrefutably true. While this game to some is a one player enterprise, to most it is a multi-player game with a social aspect. If the game is making people feel that their game world is abandoned and devoid of other souls to connect to on some level then they will turn their attention AND their money elsewhere.

As has been said or paraphrased by many others on this Forum, Inno identifying abandoned cities and removing them is akin to a game of whack-a-mole. It will never get much better with the never-ending parade of dead cities and gold-pits until Inno finds a way to deal with new players quitting. I firmly believe that expanding the social aspect in some ways would do more for that than anything else. Failing that the small changes to helps would, imho, be a good way to somewhat reduce the new player attrition until some better way can be developed and implemented.

 

[DeletedUser2870]

Better yet, just Un Nerf the Crystal Lighthouse / Bell Spire.. I went from visiting everyone on the world map and Fellowship daily to just visiting the fellowship. After I get my 3rd chest I have to force myself to do the rest of the fellowship visits

It wouldn't even have to be completely unnerfed.
Just make the CL generate 1 extra chest at lvl 1, and again at 6, 11, 16, 21,26. Combine that with a slight increase of the yield as well and the CL would become more attractive again. And of course, the chests have to be able to be gathered from the app as well, otherwise it doesn't do much good.
By having it generate extra chests after rune-updates it sure would be a considerably more useful AW.

I sold mine off not long after the nerfing, since 3 chests, even at about 10x the worth they held before, was just peanuts to someone who made visits all over the map regularly. The decrease was so huge I felt the space was no longer even close to being worth it.

As for the drop-off in new players, I expect that is at least in part because people are looking for a specific combination of boosted goods.
And another is that one can't chose the starting world. So if you invite a friend to play, he will start a city, abondon that and then start again on the world you are on to join you. Make it possible to start where you want to and you will see some of that disappear.
Of course, creating some extra cities also is a way to earn diamonds. Use all diamonds on your main acount, create a new city on each other world, run through the tutorial and you gain diamonds. Use those, wait a month and your cities will be deleted, then do it again.
Though it only works if your account holds almost no diamonds, it is a way to generate them and papers all other worlds with crappy abandoned cities.

Btw, it really shouldn't be too hard to set up an algorithm that keeps track of activity of all cities that are younger than 2 months and have them erased automatically if there hasn't been activity for more than 6 weeks.

 

[shimmerfly]

@Crowella I have to agree with the masses here. Coins are very helpful for a new player. As with any help, I am grateful.
I vividly recall being short on space, coins and pop.
And as Ashrem stated...the sense of belonging is very important. I was stuck in a very sparse area and had to collect coins from empty cities. ( lots of them). I hated it.
Not that I chat with my neighbors now but it was a 'godsend' to be moved and accepted where I am now and feeling part of the bigger picture. I still give coins ( if nothing else is asked for) and get them back and am always grateful for the help.
I don't understand why you wouldn't be.
I do play solo but it was a choice I made and stuck to. Even in a FS why wouldn't anyone benefit or enjoy getting help??
I'm missing it...

 

[shimmerfly]

@Vergazi
well said!

 

[bkbajb]

Why do players need incentive to do something that helps you and another player? I visit every player in my FS daily and I have neighbors that we do the same. After I get my 3 chests I still get coins and supplies. When I get too many coins I buy KP. Every visit helps. Players need to look at the big picture and realize that while it may be boring, it helps either on your tech tree or upgrading AW's.

 

[Ashrem]

and I have neighbors that we do the same.

It's the players where you don't do the same that is the topic. Do you look for every new city that moves in every day and make sure to visit them, even if they are several rings away and can't visit you back for weeks, or maybe months until they get in several chapters and discover you?

 

[shimmerfly]

Do you look for every new city that moves in every day and make sure to visit them, even if they are several rings away and can't visit you back for weeks, or maybe months until they get in several chapters and discover you?

Not every day, but I do look when I get bored or during tourneys or when I'm visiting others...and I've found some that that are grateful enough to message a thanks. I still like this game and want to see people stay.

 

[Gath Of Baal]

Of course, creating some extra cities also is a way to earn diamonds. Use all diamonds on your main acount, create a new city on each other world, run through the tutorial and you gain diamonds.

I use my non active cities as Wishing Well Farms I do the events on them now to gain more Wishing Wells just to farm Diamonds. I have over 48 Wishing Wells spread out over 4 cities but I have just started using them as such and hopefully after this event I have even more in my non active cities.. The thing about this also, is it forces me to log on to them every 12 hours, which had the added bonus of me taking a renewed interest in those cities

 

[DeletedUser9601]

Neighborly help is not all that helpful for very new players.

Completely disagree. If the new player can visit the helper, the supplies from the "help back" are massive for new players. I find supplies to be the biggest gating item for newer cities; workshops just take up so much population. A new player that can get into a FS that consistently gives 15ish golden hands per day can basically replace a workshop with something else, or can double their tourney production (by producing more troops).

I think that goes a long way in keeping players engaged. What makes players stop? My experience has been the feeling that you're always stuck waiting around, and you're not doing anything. Admittedly, there isn't a TON that can be ultimately done to fix that - either you are okay with Elvenar's slow and methodical pace or you're not. But if you give people more troops to fight with and more city space to play around with, that's a good thing.

 

[Crowella]

Most new players can't visit the neighbors who help them to receive supplies because they have not discovered their neighbors yet. Given the number of dead cities, a LUCKY new player has 3-4 active neighbors within their first 2 rings. I have 3-4 neighbors who provide neighborly help that I can return, after two months of gameplay. With a low-level main hall, the amount of supplies you gain from returning neighborly help to your actual neighbors (as opposed to fellowship) as a new player is extremely limited.

 

[Vergazi]

Sometimes being a good neighbor and earning people's respect and goodwill enough that they take the time to give you neighborly helps isn't a matter of luck...it's a matter or work and perseverance. When I began playing I made sure to always help any one i could when I logged on. If people returned the helps regularly and/or offered trades I could take that helped me out and if people took my trades, then I would sometimes message them with a note of thanks and thanked them for being a good neighbor to me. This can be done by small or large city players alike and has nothing to do with being a new player or an advanced player. Neighborliness and just plain politeness and good manners are a get back what you give thing to me. Don't wait for others to be nice and help out...when presented with an opportunity to help do it because it is a good and nice thing to do. In this regard I believe players make their own luck. Happy gaming and be good to one another!
Please won't you be my neighbor?

 

[DeletedUser2870]

Why do players need incentive to do something that helps you and another player? I visit every player in my FS daily and I have neighbors that we do the same. After I get my 3 chests I still get coins and supplies. When I get too many coins I buy KP. Every visit helps. Players need to look at the big picture and realize that while it may be boring, it helps either on your tech tree or upgrading AW's.

Because at some point coins and supplies aren't that interesting anymore.
With the app I've restarted visiting more often, but from the computer there is no way I'm going to visit something like 480 cities on a regular basis. Even with the app I don't do that too often.
And I buy some KP's each day, but the price goes up really fast that way. I use the extortion-saler daily too. There just isn't enough of an incentive to get more coins since their use is really limited. I don't feel the need to rush all my AW's to lvl 30, so I'm happy with buying just 3 Kp's a day.
If one wants to get players to pay more visits, more uses for coins need to be introduced.

 

[Crowella]

Vergazi, you can't earn the respect and goodwill of people who aren't playing. That's what I'm talking about in terms of luck and placement.