Trade cycling

[Lelanya]

@Alram I am glad you are ok with waiting because I am still busy, and I am happy to reply to you.
We can hardly close the thread with a new player offering input, y'all. Alram says new players near him in Fel are doing just fine.

 

[Silver Lady]

We control our trader by simply opening it up, checking the FS only box and clicking accept until it's blank

I play on a tablet and my trader doesn’t have an ‘FS only box’. This must be a browser only feature? Sure would be nice to have in the app ’cause I spend a fair amount of time scrolling through trader pages looking for trades from my FS members. (If only a browser feature I will see if I can post in suggestions.)

 

[Silver Lady]

FS members have confirmed browser only so I’ve posted a suggestion.

 

[Dew Spinner]

It certainly does feel that way, but I think there's still a chance for this to morph into something useful.
There have been alternatives suggested in this thread that we could expand upon and discuss. It doesn't have to be just about the OP idea of trade cycles since the actual point was to help small players and the method is secondary to that. (this is why I stand by the unimportance of the word/definition of "unfair". It really doesn't matter.)

I also think even though some won't admit it that they will go back into their regular game play and do just that little bit more. Everything helps! This is just my personal experience, so I know it is not scientific, but I posted earlier about 78% of my discovered map is dead cities, I went back this morning and checked out the chapter of the 78%, the vast majority of that 78% is small cities. New players start, they struggle, they quit.

 

[Dew Spinner]

I also noticed lately that some well established FS are now starting a secondary "Farm Team" FS to accept lower level cities, coach them with the caveat that if they continue to improve they will be evaluated for a spot on the main FS when a spot becomes available. I thought this was a very inventive idea! It's a win/win for the FS and the small city.

 

[SoggyShorts]

78% of my discovered map is dead cities, I went back this morning and checked out the chapter of the 78%, the vast majority of that 78% is small cities. New players start, they struggle, they quit

How many had traders built? Any that didn't would have zero benefits from the OP idea but could have gotten something from a message.
Also, small cities get abandoned for a variety of reasons, not just struggling. One is that this game is advertised in bizarre ways and many players arrive finding a game very different than expected.

 

[Dew Spinner]

@Alram I am glad you are ok with waiting because I am still busy, and I am happy to reply to you.
We can hardly close the thread with a new player offering input, y'all. Alram says new players near him in Fel are doing just fine.

Not saying anything bad about Alram but as a new player how can he judge that? I can see the comments flying about me being newish too but I make it a priority to the read multiple resources where players are commenting daily and have for months, so that is where my views are coming from. I also did my homework on the game mechanics before I started playing, so I personally didn't struggle as much. I just read a comment on the forums the other day where a newish player didn't understand the difference between boosted and non-boosted factories, now that poor player is going to get severely victimized by sharks!

 

[Dew Spinner]

How many had traders built? Any that didn't would have zero benefits from the OP idea but could have gotten something from a message.
Also, small cities get abandoned for a variety of reasons, not just struggling. One is that this game is advertised in bizarre ways and many players arrive finding a game very different than expected.

All of them, but if I remember correctly I had my trader in the 1st day or very early on day 2. I have always found it kind of bizarre that a FS would have a minimum requirement of "at least have a trader" because of that. Are there really a lot of new players that send out mass applications to FSs on their 1st day? Even though I spent time doing my homework on the game mechanics, I knew no FS would accept me on day 1 or 2. I was half way through chapter 2 before I started applying! LOL

 

[Darielle]

I also think even though some won't admit it that they will go back into their regular game play and do just that little bit more. Everything helps! This is just my personal experience, so I know it is not scientific, but I posted earlier about 78% of my discovered map is dead cities, I went back this morning and checked out the chapter of the 78%, the vast majority of that 78% is small cities. New players start, they struggle, they quit.

I think most of the people here are very kind hearted souls who do a lot for their neighborhoods. That's one of the reasons they are here, to see if they can help others.

Yes, new players may struggle, but there may be a lot of reasons why they quit. Maybe they just try it out, decide it's not for them and then quit. Or maybe they overscout and can't explore further, so they get bored. Or maybe they are too impatient to wait for techs to advance. or maybe they get bored waiting for their buildings to upgrade, or, or or ... etc.

If you go back and look at those cities, the majority of the small abandoned cities, at least in my neck of the woods, do not have a trader. So it wasn't because people weren't taking their trades that they quit. I have no doubt that there are some who did quit for that reason, but I don't think it's the majority.

I could be wrong. It might be fun to go through every abandoned city in our neighborhoods and check to see how many were abandoned before they got a trader and how many left after they got a trader but before they were advanced enough to overcome the small-city trading problems, say chapter five or so. If I find the time to do that experiment, I'll report on my findings. If anyone else has the time to do that, I'd be interested in your findings, too.

 

[Dew Spinner]

I think most of the people here are very kind hearted souls who do a lot for their neighborhoods. That's one of the reasons they are here, to see if they can help others.

Yes, new players may struggle, but there may be a lot of reasons why they quit. Maybe they just try it out, decide it's not for them and then quit. Or maybe they overscout and can't explore further, so they get bored. Or maybe they are too impatient to wait for techs to advance. or maybe they get bored waiting for their buildings to upgrade, or, or or ... etc.

If you go back and look at those cities, the majority of the small abandoned cities, at least in my neck of the woods, do not have a trader. So it wasn't because people weren't taking their trades that they quit. I have no doubt that there are some who did quit for that reason, but I don't think it's the majority.

I could be wrong. It might be fun to go through every abandoned city in our neighborhoods and check to see how many were abandoned before they got a trader and how many left after they got a trader but before they were advanced enough to overcome the small-city trading problems, say chapter five or so. If I find the time to do that experiment, I'll report on my findings. If anyone else has the time to do that, I'd be interested in your findings, too.

You wouldn't know it by some of their very disrespectful, attacking posts!

 

[samidodamage]

Well, this is just sad. This thread has devolved into either you're willing to place trades guessing at what goods some other players might need in amounts you guess they might need for goods they might have to trade for them...or you don't give a rip about small cities.
That's too bad. Many long term players/posters here make concerted efforts to support small cities, but those efforts are not valued by the most vocal posters in this thread. Posters who disagree with the original suggestion are neither disrespectful nor attacking, we just disagree. This could have evolved into a good discussion about things that could be done that might actually help, but sadly it doesn't appear to be moving in that direction...
And, no, I won't be quietly going back and posting trades based on guess work. I will absolutely continue to play the game the way I see fit, and that includes the efforts I make to help the small cities whether others here find those efforts enough or not.

 

[Dew Spinner]

Well, this is just sad. This thread has devolved into either you're willing to place trades guessing at what goods some other players might need in amounts you guess they might need for goods they might have to trade for them...or you don't give a rip about small cities.
That's too bad. Many long term players/posters here make concerted efforts to support small cities, but those efforts are not valued by the most vocal posters in this thread. Posters who disagree with the original suggestion are neither disrespectful nor attacking, we just disagree. This could have evolved into a good discussion about things that could be done that might actually help, but sadly it doesn't appear to be moving in that direction...
And, no, I won't be quietly going back and posting trades based on guess work. I will absolutely continue to play the game the way I see fit, and that includes the efforts I make to help the small cities whether others here find those efforts enough or not.

No Offense but the most common complaint in this thread is..."I don't have time to keep clearing my notifications of all the small trades, so I don't miss the NH notifications", yet everyone who has used that complaint has loads of time to post long monologues on this thread about how much time they don't have!

 

[samidodamage]

I don't have time to keep clearing my notifications of all the small trades,

How, pray tell, do I 'Clear' those notifications? They simply drop off over time afaik...
Edit to add: they are also pushed off by new notifications, the same way they push off visit notifications from neighbors.

 

[Dew Spinner]

How, pray tell, do I 'Clear' those notifications? They simply drop off over time afaik...
Edit to add: they are also pushed off by new notifications, the same way they push off visit notifications from neighbors.

No offense, but you could be checking them right now so you don't miss any of the important ones! And the same could be done with the OP idea! Not wanting to do something is not the same as, can't.

 

[samidodamage]

I did my visits this morning. There is not a single neighbor in my notifications that is available to visit again. I have a bit over 14 hrs left until I can do them again. In the meantime, if other notifications come in they will push the notifications on the 10th page off...
Again, edit to add:
Since most of the notifications will be return visits, they are replacing the ones that are falling off.
And, yes I could do some elaborate guesswork and post trades that would push off more visits, I don't recall ever saying I couldn't. I did say: no, I won't.

 

[Dew Spinner]

I did my visits this morning. There is not a single neighbor in my notifications that is available to visit again. I have a bit over 14 hrs left until I can do them again. In the meantime, if other notifications come in they will push the notifications on the 10th page off...
Again, edit to add:
Since most of the notifications will be return visits, they are replacing the ones that are falling off.
And, yes I could do some elaborate guesswork and post trades that would push off more visits, I don't recall ever saying I couldn't. I did say: no, I won't.

Thanks for proving my point! Can't is not the same as I won't! Now we have come from, I don't have time to, not wanting to, to can't, to I won't...now the truth is coming out.

 

[SoggyShorts]

No Offense but the most common complaint in this thread is..."I don't have time to keep clearing my notifications of all the small trades, so I don't miss the NH notifications"

No, it's not. The most common complaint is that the OP's idea won't work very well (if at all) with several reasons given for that.
The inconvenience factor is a part of it, but it's the effort:reward ratio that is crap. (reward here being helping another player)

 

[Darielle]

No offense, but you could be checking them right now so you don't miss any of the important ones! And the same could be done with the OP idea! Not wanting to do something is not the same as, can't.

Or how about we all just get along instead of trying to dictate exactly how others should be playing the game? You could be out saving the world right now, but instead you are in here claiming people are attacking and disrespectful. We aren't. We just happen to disagree. And it's not that we are lazy. We are playing the game as best we can in the manner that we believe is doing the most good for the most players. You don't think so, that is your prerogative. But the only disrespectful posts I see are from people getting defensive about opposing (respectful) viewpoints.


Now on another note:

I did a partial research just now ... didn't have time for it all, but I took the first 4 rows of cities without cherry picking. I was surprised, and it may have changed my thinking a bit. I checked out 33 abandoned cities on elvenstats to see that they were truly abandoned and what chapter they were in. Here's what I found:

Of the 33:
14 left in chapter 1 before they got a trader
7 had a trader and left in chapter 2
3 left in chapter 3 and had a trader
4 left in chapter 4 and had a trader
1 left in chapter 5 with a trader
all the rest were in guest races from 6-10

I expected the "vast majority" would have been chapter 1 with no trader. I didn't expect an equal number to be in chapters 2-4 and after acquiring a trader. That's a decent number. So it's possible that of those half that leave in chapters 2-5, there may be a significant percentage who struggle with goods. I'm glad I did this exercise. While I still believe it is better for advanced players to pick up small trades, it does help to clarify both sides.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I expected the "vast majority" would have been chapter 1 with no trader. I didn't expect an equal number to be in chapters 2-4 and after acquiring a trader. That's a decent number. So it's possible that of those half that leave in chapters 2-5, there may be a significant percentage who struggle with goods. I'm glad I did this exercise. While I still believe it is better for advanced players to pick up small trades, it does help to clarify both sides.

I think this may be hugely skewed by inno's deletion algorithm.
Players who have purchased diamonds or made it past chapter 3 don't get deleted for 2 years whereas players under chapter 3 can be deleted after a month.
So while it looks like 25% of dead cities made it through, the real number is much lower.
Still, it's interesting to see that almost half of your sample are level 1 no traders and @Dew Spinner found 0%

 

[Dew Spinner]

Or how about we all just get along instead of trying to dictate exactly how others should be playing the game? You could be out saving the world right now, but instead you are in here claiming people are attacking and disrespectful. We aren't. We just happen to disagree. And it's not that we are lazy. We are playing the game as best we can in the manner that we believe is doing the most good for the most players. You don't think so, that is your prerogative. But the only disrespectful posts I see are from people getting defensive about opposing (respectful) viewpoints.


Now on another note:

I did a partial research just now ... didn't have time for it all, but I took the first 4 rows of cities without cherry picking. I was surprised, and it may have changed my thinking a bit. I checked out 33 abandoned cities on elvenstats to see that they were truly abandoned and what chapter they were in. Here's what I found:

Of the 33:
14 left in chapter 1 before they got a trader
7 had a trader and left in chapter 2
3 left in chapter 3 and had a trader
4 left in chapter 4 and had a trader
1 left in chapter 5 with a trader
all the rest were in guest races from 6-10

I expected the "vast majority" would have been chapter 1 with no trader. I didn't expect an equal number to be in chapters 2-4 and after acquiring a trader. That's a decent number. So it's possible that of those half that leave in chapters 2-5, there may be a significant percentage who struggle with goods. I'm glad I did this exercise. While I still believe it is better for advanced players to pick up small trades, it does help to clarify both sides.

I'm not dictating anything, I am just keeping a record of how the objections have gone from, I don't have time to, I don't want to. I can't and finally to I won't. That says all you need to know about this subject.