Worlds Becoming Unbalanced on Goods Production

[shimmerfly]

Here here My favorite furry friend!
I'll bring matches and Schnapps!

 

[samidodamage]

4 endles scrolls and one in inventory. I;m tempted to dump

Since I saw the issue in my crystal boosted city, I put my scroll factories in storage in my scroll boosted city early on instead of dumping the spire bldgs I might need for link bonuses. That's helped there. Also, I went for a bunch of the T2 bldgs in events (they mostly make boost+1 or +2), and upgrade them to chapter level (as long as they continue to produce T2) with RR's, so that helps with my crystal/silk needs there. I put them in storage in case Inno ever gets their head out of their...and changes the spire bldgs to boost+[anything].
And even changing it to boost+1 won't help me in my crystal boosted city...boost+1 there = scrolls... But I still wish they'd do it, because (surprise!) it's not just about me, lol!

 

[SoggyShorts]

(don't tell Soggy) but I have 4 endless scrolls and one in inventory

 

[shimmerfly]

Happpppy New Year Mr Damp shorts!

 

[Lelanya]

Uh oh! When we are posting rodents, lolol....
I too am scroll boosted, in soooo many cities - like 5!! And I pushed the manufacturing boost, too. So I have most of the scrolls out but I rarely harvest them, just when there are quests *so many quests lately *
This good news is, we're done for the present, happy dance

 

[Iyapo1]

And even changing it to boost+1 won't help me in my crystal boosted city...boost+1 there = scrolls.

Heck it could even be changed to boost [plus nothing]. Scroll players are already buried, there is no point in dragging other boosts in on purpose.

 

[Kekune]

Heck it could even be changed to boost [plus nothing]. Scroll players are already buried, there is no point in dragging other boosts in on purpose.

Boost +1 (or +2) at least gives scroll players a remedy. If that option existed, I'd go all-in on it in the short-term since there's such a scrolls surplus. Then everyone would have the ability to adjust their factory production with sets producing a different good until things are sustainable.

If it's boost-only, scrolls players are still stuck only able to produce the thing that's already abundant, and they're dependent on other players' behavior and decisions to make trading sustainable again.

 

[ajqtrz]

I don't love it. Might even venture to say it sours my mood any time I open the trader and search using "Asking for: Scrolls"....crickets.

aj...while I admire your tenacity in making this argument over and over again...you continue to make it based on the assumption that the game is designed to "reflect actual market conditions". I keep seeing you hold the Elvenar system up against "actual conditions in the market" as if "the market" and Elvenar's Trader were the same system.
Yes, the developers decided to use the 1:1 ratio system to label trades fair or unfair. We are operating under those definitions, as set forth by the developers of this game, while we play this game. What happens in "the actual market" beyond this game is irrelevent.

I'm not claiming the devs tried to make the game "reflect actual market conditions," I'm saying that "actual market conditions" reflect human psychology and since humans are playing the game the "actual market conditions" you experience in the real world are reflected here in spite of any artificial strictures the devs might try to get us to all play like they want when it comes to trade. It's "real people" playing and "actual market conditions" occur anywhere real people are trading -- even in a game like this.

@ajqtrz

I assign value to my goods. I say my scrolls should be equal in value to silk and crystal.

They are not because "blah, blah, blah".

I feel cheated. There are a number of people who also feel cheated.

Your persuasive argument is failing to persuade because you are not the arbiter in this dispute. Your opinion on your trades is yours. You decide for you, I decide for me.

I'm glad you get the point that you are in charge of the value of your goods, not some artificial star studded system. And since you value your scrolls at a 1:1 to silk and crystal I can only hope you are on Khelonaar where I can profit from your trades at 1:1. As it stands now I seldom see those "always fair?" trades at 1:1. Maybe others, as in most, don't actually see them at the 1:1 ratio?

And of course, "blah, blah, blah?" really? Not much of a rebuttal of my points but frustration seldom leads to good argument.

And, as for arbitrating this dispute, I'm not. I don't think I've told anyone they should do this or that. I'm merely pointing out the advantages of letting go of arbitrary measures and being realistic about trades. I do have to admit, though, I may have, at some point, told people they "ought" to do it this way, but if so it's not an arbitrary "ought" since it would be, in my opinion, in their best interest.

I'm getting really, really fed up with the imbalance in the trader where I am on the map! As the years have gone by and as Elvenar has chosen to leave cities which I know beyond a doubt haven't played in literally years, it has become seriously imbalanced. It is very difficult where I am to get marble, crystal & gems. I know of multiple dead cities that I used to trade with for those goods. I completely understand why Elvenar has chosen not to remove cities who have bought diamonds but they sure don't have to leave them sitting where they create a serious imbalance. Now they have let them sit there for so long that even if they do move them to their own section it would still probably take at least a year before any grow to the point of being any big benefit to their neighbors.

I also get very irritated by players who post gouging trades, especially sentient goods. If they think they can turn around and offer fair trades on those or other goods and I and others won't remember who they are they need to think again. I have nothing but distaste for players who set out to take advantage of other players. If I remember somebody's name who gouges and I see their trades posted I do not care if I have millions of what they are asking for. Definite no go! The only way I take any trades from those players is if I really need them, but I cringe if I feel like I have to.
On sentient goods I think it annoys me even more because I always post what I'm looking for + a %.

The answer to "gouging" trades is to not take them. If everybody thought they were "gouging" they would go away. But, apparently, the value of the goods offered for the goods wanted, meets somebody's definition of "overall fair," and, as I've argued many times, it's the traders who have the right to determine what they are willing to give for what they are willing to accept.

I would also suggest that punishing a person for "gouging" is a rather harsh way of imposing your valuations on another player....just as the rules against this or that level of trading is imposing the valuation of goods on other players. I wonder what lyapo1 thinks of trying to arbitrate the value of her goods. Would she go along and accept if her fs said all trades had to be listed at 3 star? Oh, wait, her fs probably says 2-star already. Isn't that acting as an arbiter? Sigh. It's so hard to be consistent.

AJ

 

[AtaguS]

I'm not claiming the devs tried to make the game "reflect actual market conditions," I'm saying that "actual market conditions" reflect human psychology and since humans are playing the game the "actual market conditions" you experience in the real world are reflected here in spite of any artificial strictures the devs might try to get us to all play like they want when it comes to trade. It's "real people" playing and "actual market conditions" occur anywhere real people are trading -- even in a game like this.

It just sounds like a stretched argument to make a point. Sorry, just not on board.

 

[edeba]

Inno isn't responsible for players choosing to discount goods or choosing to pay premium prices to advance their own cities. We, the players, can fix the problem.

But they are responsible for introducing buildings that are widespread and make only scrolls. If the moonstone library gave a mix of silk and crystal with the 1x2 endless scrolls giving scrolls there would be no imbalance.

 

[Iyapo1]

Oh, wait, her fs probably says 2-star already. Isn't that acting as an arbiter?

Yes. I joined FSs that had rules in place that I agree with, I accept that the AM is the arbiter.

Would she go along and accept if her fs said all trades had to be listed at 3 star?

No.

And of course, "blah, blah, blah?" really? Not much of a rebuttal of my points but frustration seldom leads to good argument.

This is not a rebuttal of any points you made. It is an acknowledgment of the problems without re-hashing the specifics. I was loosely quoting Soggy(I think). Bottom line, I dont care why my scrolls are worth less. They are worth less and I am salty about it.

 

[Iyapo1]

If it's boost-only, scrolls players are still stuck only able to produce the thing that's already abundant, and they're dependent on other players' behavior and decisions to make trading sustainable again.

True but we are already dealing with it. Working around it or quiting and starting better boosted cities. Why shove it off on other players? That would just spread the joy.

 

[edeba]

I'm only in ch 4. I have every piece of the library except an endless scroll. I read the forum. It isn't fair to scroll boosted players. I CHOOSE to not place it in my city. It does hurt me. I'm ok with the pain. I only have 13000 spell fragments. I stand in solidarity with the scroll boosted players.

People put the moonstone libraries in for the CC spells. If you don't put in a full set, you don't get them.... The moonstone library also gives scrolls so I think you are kind of missing the point.

Having said that, I have 6 moonstone libraries, but only 3 endless because I was able to make each touch 2 of the libraries. I also have only 2 gates because I managed to get 3 to touch each gate.

Inno could improve the balance by dropping the scrolls on the libraries and increasing population and culture or making it give a balance of goods, or the +1 that people have suggested.

 

[edeba]

I agree. We can't fix the scroll problem. We can all try though.

Well, I think we can over time, but it requires massive organization and cooperation within a FS.
This is what would have to happen:

1. Scroll boosted players reduced their use of scroll manufacturers, and increase t1 and t3.
2. Crystal and silk players increase their manufacturers and reduce t1 and t3.
3. Allow cross tier trades within the FS.

 

[Iyapo1]

@edeba You forgot the bee.

 

[Lelanya]

I have nine cities, six of which are orc chapter or better. I have one Blooming Bee. There are strategies where the Bee is useful, and others where they are not, @Iyapo1

 

[Iyapo1]

I have nine cities, six of which are orc chapter or better.

And of the nine how many are scroll boosted? 5 right? Is your BTG in one of those?

 

[Kekune]

Why shove it off on other players? That would just spread the joy.

I don't understand how this would hurt other players. If everybody had the option to produce either their boosted goods in factories or another one in a set, everybody would have a viable choice. How is that bad?

 

[GlamDoll]

Amsolutely amazing how they could screw this up this bad, the problem was identified and they were warned about it from the start.
It took them a year to accept the truth, A year of inactivity to solve it did more damage and is so out of control that it won't be easily solved.

Although I agree with you 100%, I suspect it is working as intended. I seldom make a thread in this forum...BUT, I would be more than happy to give my 2-cents... On what? That this is all working as intended....

I don't give a flying (insert whatever, here)...I only have ONE question left, before we are done with 2020, AKA, the total lack of vision!

Are there any competent dev teams left? Will we ever see new, competent & innovative gameplay?

OR...

Just eyecandy & nerfs, from here on out?

Not asking you only, but...

EVERYONE.

 

[Iyapo1]

@Kekune
I answered you and then deleted it and tried again and again.

And then it hit me that I was lying and even saltier than I realized.

I want everybody who is not scroll boosted out of the scroll making business.