Developers Working on Scroll Solution

[GlamDoll]

but in the end they cause their own problems and still leaves the scroll boosted at a disadvantage.

And I think that really blows ....however, to be fair, I almost wish I was scroll boosted instead of silk. Why? I have almost 4 mil scrolls & if I were scroll boosted, I could buy KPs for days & days & days...

I am no calculus teacher, but pretty sure I would be in chapter 30 after

 

[AtaguS]

I have almost 4 mil scrolls & if I were scroll boosted, I could buy KPs for days & days & days...

Yes...in a perfect world where a scroll boosted player did not need silk or crystal, lol, this would be a nice perk.

 

[GlamDoll]

Yes...in a perfect world where a scroll boosted player did not need silk or crystal, lol, this would be a nice perk.

Indeed.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

I traded 150K scrolls yesterday for 100K crystal/silk, it took over 24H before someone (1 person) picked them all up.

if it's a pain to sell them with a 50% markup, ain't that the definition of a sick market?
Anything else you sell with a 50% markup will be sold in seconds not days.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I traded 150K scrolls yesterday for 100K crystal/silk, it took over 24H before someone (1 person) picked them all up.

if it's a pain to sell them with a 50% markup, ain't that the definition of a sick market?
Anything else you sell with a 50% markup will be sold in seconds not days.

I saw someone post a trade ASKING for scrolls the other day. I was so stunned it took a moment before I clicked and it was too late. Maybe the trade was never there and it was like a mirage in the desert...

 

[Yogi Dave]

Maybe the trade was never there and it was like a mirage in the desert...

...and maybe it was the exception that proves the rule.

 

[ajqtrz]

@ajqtrz I started experimenting with selling my scrolls at discount in my H city. I stopped at 15 % (at 15% my scrolls still didn't sell), cause I started fearing that I would only make the scrolls abundance worse: by selling scrolls at discount those boosted in silk and crystal who bought my discounted scrolls would need to produce less silk/crystal to cover their needs!

I find a 20% discount is needed and have gone as high as 30%. To keep from having excess scrolls I have no T2 scrolls producing buildings (I have one for the velvet). My moonstone libraries produce all my scrolls for the most part and I really don't over produce. Perhaps I'm lucky in that I am in an area where the scrolls problem is not as intense, but local market conditions are what you have to adjust to, not universal ones.

I have considered cross tier trades - but my other boosts are bad too. Dust is almost as bad as scrolls. Steel is not too bad, but producing mostly steel doesn't seem like the right solution either And once I enter sentient goods I will have tree gum which is just as bad as scrolls, and nothing else to trade with before I unlock S2. And velvet seems to be the least wanted S2 (at least in F world which is my only city in sentient goods). And bismuth is bad too

I have the same three boosts. I'm not sure using scrolls to purchase KP is a good idea in the long run as it means you just keep paying more and more scrolls for the KP. If they then fix the problem your scrolls for KP could be very expensive.

I have 6 large steel buildings. I trade steel for silk and sometimes crystal and it helps when my discounted scrolls move slowly -- by slowly I mean 48 hours. Usually they take less than a day and they are gone at 100k scrolls for 75k silk or crystal.

Also, having excess scrolls has never been the primary complaint here. That's just a symptom of the actual problem. Having a good that I did not choose to be boosted in valued disproportionately to other goods, is the problem.

But wait! The game says the goods are all equally in value on each tier! How can you say they are not?! Some players keep arguing we should all just go along with what the devs say and trade our scrolls at 1:1 with crystal/silk. Are you saying we should not but, instead, pay attention to the demand/supply ratios instead? Such a radical idea!

Those work arounds are a choice not a necessity caused by a game design flaw. Everyone knows why the wholesaler is the way it is...to induce trading, it was being too heavily utilized before and people were not trading, just relying on the wholesaler.

And the work around for selling scrolls is also a choice. And "not a necessity caused by a game design flaw" assumes their is a game design flaw in the overproduction of scrolls AND there was not one in the other work arounds the players adopted. I'm not convinced that any game design flaw is here since in all cases the players have found ways to successfully play the game as it is. Perhaps the only flaw in the game is the perception put forward by the devs that they can tell us players what to do -- by telling us what is "fair" and what is not.


To all: If you think the over production of scrolls is the problem it's not. The real problem is an unwillingness to adjust by learning another aspect of the game -- real open trading. Letting the devs tell you what your goods are worth is handicapping you and causing, I believe, a lot of players to keep on believing a 1 star trade for scrolls, or a 3 star trade to get crystal/silk for scrolls is "unfair" and therefore to avoid them. Ideally it would be nice if the game never fluctuated the value of the goods and they were, in fact, always in a perfect supply/demand ration of 1:1. But they are not and good game play, or at least effective game play, means adjusting and ignoring what the devs say about "fair" and "unfair," trades.

If you want to help "fix" the problem though, and you are, as I am, a scrolls boosted city, cut back on your production. If all scrolls producing cities did that the market would return to balance (roughly speaking) and their would be no scrolls surplus. But if you insist on believing that scrolls are worth the same as silk/crystal you would have to also say that you should therefore keep producing the same amount of scrolls and just trade them for the silk/crystal you need at a 1:1 ratio. That's the game design, but that's not a realistic assessment of the markets, and, as many have found out, going that route just produces an excess of scrolls you can't trade at a 1:1 ratio.

AJ

 

[AtaguS]

But wait! The game says the goods are all equally in value on each tier! How can you say they are not?! Some players keep arguing we should all just go along with what the devs say and trade our scrolls at 1:1 with crystal/silk. Are you saying we should not but, instead, pay attention to the demand/supply ratios instead? Such a radical idea!

Nice try, Aj, but no. And I'm pretty sure it doesn't need explainin'

To all: If you think the over production of scrolls is the problem it's not. The real problem is an unwillingness to adjust by learning another aspect of the game -- real open trading.

In good faith I'm asking you to take this to a new thread. I can't watch another one get derailed by this topic again.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

I find a 20% discount is needed and have gone as high as 30%. To keep from having excess scrolls I have no T2 scrolls producing buildings (I have one for the velvet). My moonstone libraries produce all my scrolls for the most part and I really don't over produce. Perhaps I'm lucky in that I am in an area where the scrolls problem is not as intense, but local market conditions are what you have to adjust to, not universal ones.



I have the same three boosts. I'm not sure using scrolls to purchase KP is a good idea in the long run as it means you just keep paying more and more scrolls for the KP. If they then fix the problem your scrolls for KP could be very expensive.

I have 6 large steel buildings. I trade steel for silk and sometimes crystal and it helps when my discounted scrolls move slowly -- by slowly I mean 48 hours. Usually they take less than a day and they are gone at 100k scrolls for 75k silk or crystal.



But wait! The game says the goods are all equally in value on each tier! How can you say they are not?! Some players keep arguing we should all just go along with what the devs say and trade our scrolls at 1:1 with crystal/silk. Are you saying we should not but, instead, pay attention to the demand/supply ratios instead? Such a radical idea!



And the work around for selling scrolls is also a choice. And "not a necessity caused by a game design flaw" assumes their is a game design flaw in the overproduction of scrolls AND there was not one in the other work arounds the players adopted. I'm not convinced that any game design flaw is here since in all cases the players have found ways to successfully play the game as it is. Perhaps the only flaw in the game is the perception put forward by the devs that they can tell us players what to do -- by telling us what is "fair" and what is not.


To all: If you think the over production of scrolls is the problem it's not. The real problem is an unwillingness to adjust by learning another aspect of the game -- real open trading. Letting the devs tell you what your goods are worth is handicapping you and causing, I believe, a lot of players to keep on believing a 1 star trade for scrolls, or a 3 star trade to get crystal/silk for scrolls is "unfair" and therefore to avoid them. Ideally it would be nice if the game never fluctuated the value of the goods and they were, in fact, always in a perfect supply/demand ration of 1:1. But they are not and good game play, or at least effective game play, means adjusting and ignoring what the devs say about "fair" and "unfair," trades.

If you want to help "fix" the problem though, and you are, as I am, a scrolls boosted city, cut back on your production. If all scrolls producing cities did that the market would return to balance (roughly speaking) and their would be no scrolls surplus. But if you insist on believing that scrolls are worth the same as silk/crystal you would have to also say that you should therefore keep producing the same amount of scrolls and just trade them for the silk/crystal you need at a 1:1 ratio. That's the game design, but that's not a realistic assessment of the markets, and, as many have found out, going that route just produces an excess of scrolls you can't trade at a 1:1 ratio.

AJ

Sorry dude you're talking %&£%

if a person with 1 good can't get rid of it, and you need a workaround it's a design flaw.

If I build a road to narrow or a speed bump to high for a car to traverse, I can't say I did not screw up because you can drive 20 miles around and enter from the other side of the city as a workaround.

 

[Dew Spinner]

I find a 20% discount is needed and have gone as high as 30%. To keep from having excess scrolls I have no T2 scrolls producing buildings (I have one for the velvet). My moonstone libraries produce all my scrolls for the most part and I really don't over produce. Perhaps I'm lucky in that I am in an area where the scrolls problem is not as intense, but local market conditions are what you have to adjust to, not universal ones.



I have the same three boosts. I'm not sure using scrolls to purchase KP is a good idea in the long run as it means you just keep paying more and more scrolls for the KP. If they then fix the problem your scrolls for KP could be very expensive.

I have 6 large steel buildings. I trade steel for silk and sometimes crystal and it helps when my discounted scrolls move slowly -- by slowly I mean 48 hours. Usually they take less than a day and they are gone at 100k scrolls for 75k silk or crystal.



But wait! The game says the goods are all equally in value on each tier! How can you say they are not?! Some players keep arguing we should all just go along with what the devs say and trade our scrolls at 1:1 with crystal/silk. Are you saying we should not but, instead, pay attention to the demand/supply ratios instead? Such a radical idea!



And the work around for selling scrolls is also a choice. And "not a necessity caused by a game design flaw" assumes their is a game design flaw in the overproduction of scrolls AND there was not one in the other work arounds the players adopted. I'm not convinced that any game design flaw is here since in all cases the players have found ways to successfully play the game as it is. Perhaps the only flaw in the game is the perception put forward by the devs that they can tell us players what to do -- by telling us what is "fair" and what is not.


To all: If you think the over production of scrolls is the problem it's not. The real problem is an unwillingness to adjust by learning another aspect of the game -- real open trading. Letting the devs tell you what your goods are worth is handicapping you and causing, I believe, a lot of players to keep on believing a 1 star trade for scrolls, or a 3 star trade to get crystal/silk for scrolls is "unfair" and therefore to avoid them. Ideally it would be nice if the game never fluctuated the value of the goods and they were, in fact, always in a perfect supply/demand ration of 1:1. But they are not and good game play, or at least effective game play, means adjusting and ignoring what the devs say about "fair" and "unfair," trades.

If you want to help "fix" the problem though, and you are, as I am, a scrolls boosted city, cut back on your production. If all scrolls producing cities did that the market would return to balance (roughly speaking) and their would be no scrolls surplus. But if you insist on believing that scrolls are worth the same as silk/crystal you would have to also say that you should therefore keep producing the same amount of scrolls and just trade them for the silk/crystal you need at a 1:1 ratio. That's the game design, but that's not a realistic assessment of the markets, and, as many have found out, going that route just produces an excess of scrolls you can't trade at a 1:1 ratio.

AJ

It most certainly is a game design flaw, ALL players should start on a level playing field, when approximately 1/3 of the players start at a disadvantage right out of the gate...that is a game design flaw. Your boosted good should be just as valuable as mine, your boosted good being valued at 20 to 30% less than mine, is most certainly a game design flaw. You should not have to find and employ a work around. Your Goods Should Be Just As Valuable As Mine! And you know full well why the goods are not equal, there is an outside force separate from the market system that is devaluing your boosted good, let's not play dumb here! It doesn't matter what trading ratio the devs use, the outside force is the problem and always will be. You can breed a greyhound through genetic selection that is 4 times faster than any other greyhound on the planet but because an outside force is controlling the rabbit that 4 times faster greyhound will still NEVER catch the rabbit.

 

[ajqtrz]

Nice try, Aj, but no. And I'm pretty sure it doesn't need explainin'

In good faith I'm asking you to take this to a new thread. I can't watch another one get derailed by this topic again.

The topic is: "Developers working on a solution to the scrolls problem." The "scrolls problem" is the object of the sentence and the devs the subject. Others addressed the nature of the problem before me. So, if I'm derailing it, I'm not seeing it. Telling someone to stop talking about a subject in a place where other's have brought the topic up is putting the "blame" on the wrong person.

Do you really want to limit the discussion to things that make you feel good? Is that your criteria for public discussion? I'm sorry if that sounds a bit harsh, but debate can be tense and if you don't want to ever experience that, don't enter the debate. And, no matter what the topic if you don't want to be challenged and find it uncomfortable, don't bring it up in public in the first place.

AJ

It most certainly is a game design flaw, ALL players should start on a level playing field, when approximately 1/3 of the players start at a disadvantage right out of the gate...that is a game design flaw. Your boosted good should be just as valuable as mine, your boosted good being valued at 20 to 30% less than mine, is most certainly a game design flaw. You should not have to find and employ a work around. Your Goods Should Be Just As Valuable As Mine! And you know full well why the goods are not equal, there is an outside force separate from the market system that is devaluing your boosted good, let's not play dumb here!

Why? Why should all players "start on a level playing field?" It's supposedly, a non-competitive game. That people make it competitive is only a reflection of human nature. The devs sort of play it both ways -- it's non-competitive but we get ranked. It's non-competive but we rank our fellowships. It's not competitive but we rank the Fellowship Adventures, the Spire, and so on and so on.

As for my boosted good not being worth as much as yours, that's not what the game says. It says all goods on the same tier are equal in value. What you are doing, is agreeing with me, that values are in the one making the trade, not the ratios the devs say are "fair" or "unfair." So great. If it were possible to code the game so that the ratios reflected supply/demand -- which naturally fluctuate even without the devs addding/subtracting things -- they we would get a more balanced trade. But the only method for doing that is not in the coding but in ......gasp!... open markets!

And, more to the point, in my world there has always been a surplus of steel/scrolls/dust players. At least that's my experience. Does that mean I'm at a disadvantage? Of course it does. It is not the disadvantages which hold us back, but that belief that somebody else is responsible for removing them. I've been 70% deaf all my life. It's caused me a lot of problems but I don't expect society to radically change any time soon to accommodate my disadvantage. If I had expected that I would never had achieved what I've managed to achieve. Waiting for others to fix your disadvantage is not wise. "Improvise, adapt, overcome," as Marines say.

AJ

 

[Deleted User - 849192770]

this is not a whole world this is a game and it should be fair even if the world isn't.

Why? Why should all players "start on a level playing field?"

do you realize how horrible you sound you want these players to have a hard so others can have a easy game. That's just wrong.

Improvise, adapt, overcome,"

people do improvise but they should not have to, scrolls boosted CAN NOT adapt they CAN NOT change their boost. and overcoming is hard to since they are at a constant dissadvantge.
if you can find a single already know person who agree's with you then mabye this requires some actaull conversastion

 

[Alram]

I saw someone post a trade ASKING for scrolls the other day. I was so stunned it took a moment before I clicked and it was too late. Maybe the trade was never there and it was like a mirage in the desert...

I tried asking for scrolls. The order got filled by a crystal boosted player who left my crystal ask just sitting there. ???

 

[Deleted User - 849192770]

i ask for scrolls every once in a while my set does not make enough.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

this is not a whole world this is a game and it should be fair even if the world isn't.

do you realize how horrible you sound you want these players to have a hard so others can have a easy game. That's just wrong.

people do improvise but they should not have to, scrolls boosted CAN NOT adapt they CAN NOT change their boost. and overcoming is hard to since they are at a constant dissadvantge.
if you can find a single person who agree's with you then mabye this requires some actaull conversastion

oh... never say those things, devils advocates who thrive on making stupid arguments might make a second account just to agree with himself and put you in a bad spot.

We have seen whole conversations on beta between the same players 2 personalities.

 

[Deleted User - 849192770]

We have seen whole conversations on beta between the same players 2 personalities.

ok ill edit it

 

[jesikrey]

I'm boosted in scrolls in Felyndral and I have not had many issues, yes I have tons of scrolls but my fellowship benefits from them since my trades are three stars. My neighbors also take my trades with no problem. Is just part of the game, like forum participants in other posts state, is all about luck. I got scrolls as a boost, it was just my luck!
Oh and I have three library sets lol and I love them even with AAAALL the extra scrolls I get lol

 

[Dew Spinner]

It most certainly is a game design flaw, ALL players should start on a level playing field, when approximately 1/3 of the players start at a disadvantage right out of the gate...that is a game design flaw. Your boosted good should be just as valuable as mine, your boosted good being valued at 20 to 30% less than mine, is most certainly a game design flaw. You should not have to find and employ a work around. Your Goods Should Be Just As Valuable As Mine!

The topic is: "Developers working on a solution to the scrolls problem." The "scrolls problem" is the object of the sentence and the devs the subject. Others addressed the nature of the problem before me. So, if I'm derailing it, I'm not seeing it. Telling someone to stop talking about a subject in a place where other's have brought the topic up is putting the "blame" on the wrong person.

Do you really want to limit the discussion to things that make you feel good? Is that your criteria for public discussion? I'm sorry if that sounds a bit harsh, but debate can be tense and if you don't want to ever experience that, don't enter the debate. And, no matter what the topic if you don't want to be challenged and find it uncomfortable, don't bring it up in public in the first place.

AJ


Why? Why should all players "start on a level playing field?" It's supposedly, a non-competitive game. That people make it competitive is only a reflection of human nature. The devs sort of play it both ways -- it's non-competitive but we get ranked. It's non-competive but we rank our fellowships. It's not competitive but we rank the Fellowship Adventures, the Spire, and so on and so on.

As for my boosted good not being worth as much as yours, that's not what the game says. It says all goods on the same tier are equal in value. What you are doing, is agreeing with me, that values are in the one making the trade, not the ratios the devs say are "fair" or "unfair." So great. If it were possible to code the game so that the ratios reflected supply/demand -- which naturally fluctuate even without the devs addding/subtracting things -- they we would get a more balanced trade. But the only method for doing that is not in the coding but in ......gasp!... open markets!

And, more to the point, in my world there has always been a surplus of steel/scrolls/dust players. At least that's my experience. Does that mean I'm at a disadvantage? Of course it does. It is not the disadvantages which hold us back, but that belief that somebody else is responsible for removing them. I've been 70% deaf all my life. It's caused me a lot of problems but I don't expect society to radically change any time soon to accommodate my disadvantage. If I had expected that I would never had achieved what I've managed to achieve. Waiting for others to fix your disadvantage is not wise. "Improvise, adapt, overcome," as Marines say.

AJ

The value is what the Moonstone Library set makes it, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the market system, one's individual perception of "fair" or "unfair" or how the Devs value goods within a tier. You are just using ridiculous excuses and reasoning. The only way the Devs can change anything about this problem is to change the Moonstone Library set, nothing they do in the market system will change this and you already know that. In order for players to be ranked properly everyone has to start at a base equal starting point, level playing field, after that your CHOICES of how to progress determine your rank and successfulness at the game. Starting approximately 1/3 of the player bases at an immediate 20 to 30% disadvantage does not allow them to compete equally. Now stop with your ridiculous excuses and reasonings, the market system will never correct itself when an outside force is controlling it and that is the brass tacks of the situation. It's not a market system problem! It's an outside force problem! You can't make me buy something I don't want, I don't care if you discount it 100%. I have to want it and as long as I already have a ton of it I'm not going to ever want it.

 

[NightshadeCS]

Please, not this endless debate again.

1. The developers acknowledged there is a problem and said that they are doing something (unknown level of helpfulness) about it. If you don't think there is a problem, it is now time to direct your arguments that there is not indeed a problem to them.
2. We cannot choose to change our boosts. This is not a telegraph-operator situation.
3. There are many things we can do to mitigate the scroll flood, nothing we can do to correct it.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Please, not this endless debate again

Honestly, the forums have been a significantly more positive experience since leaving that "debate" (and that poster behind). You don't miss out on anything by hitting that "ignore" button.
Sure, there is the occasional thread where you see a bunch of

Then maybe your curiosity will get the better of you or you'll worry that you might be missing out on an important part of the conversation so you'll give it a click.
10/10 times that click does nothing for you other than reinforcing your decision.