Ancient Wonders?

[Gkyr]

This Is for Elf Towns Primarily: My next wish list AW is Temple of Toads; to contrast it with Heroes Forge: as @CrazyWizard said, the use of melee, especially elf melee is weak against the two ranges (light range and mage) that can diminish them before they can get next to the opponent.

Compare this to the Golem that someone called a tank. They are my one unit that get employed in almost every battle to mete out or to absorb some heavy abuse. I could not Tourney without a good supply of them. Temple of the Toads will not be wasted since this unit is so useful.

Note: In Human towns the heavy range, Cannoneer, is not as useful as the Elf Golem while the heavy melee, the Paladin, does have a 2-hex range advantage over the Treant, so the dynamics are different.

 

[Lelanya]

This Is for Elf Towns Primarily: My next wish list AW is Temple of Toads; to contrast it with Heroes Forge: as @CrazyWizard said, the use of melee, especially elf melee is weak against the two ranges (light range and mage) that can diminish them before they can get next to the opponent.

Compare this to the Golem that someone called a tank. They are my one unit that get employed in almost every battle to mete out or to absorb some heavy abuse. I could not Tourney without a good supply of them. Temple of the Toads will not be wasted since this unit is so useful.

Note: In Human towns the heavy range, Cannoneer, is not as useful as the Elf Golem while the heavy melee, the Paladin, does have a 2-hex range advantage over the Treant, so the dynamics are different.

Yah but the Golem has no strikeback; this makes Orc Strats stronger even when they are two star.

 

[Gkyr]

@Lelanya ,So the ToT buffs up the Orc Strats, too. No problem.

 

[Iyapo1]

"The difficulty of spire and tournaments are depending on several factors including the amount of wonderlevels you own,". . . "if you don't give a crap about either of those you can build essentially any wonder because the downside of them you do not care about."

See a ringing endorsement of my GA and my BTG! As long as I am happy with less than 1/2 of CW's tournament score then I am good to go!

 

[Kekune]

It is possible that Temple of the Toads might become worth building once this happens. Does any ch 15 player want to weigh in on this?

Yup. Love mine. I might love it less if I were human and it gave me mortars. But free golems and stronger HR troops is a real winner to a fighting elf.

 

[Gladiola]

With regard to new players and Ancient Wonders, I think there is an argument that can be made for not having any Ancient Wonders at all early in the game. I am about to enter chapter 5 and don't have any yet.

I am pretty sure I will build a GA sometime in Chapter 5; I'm going to see how my city planning for chapter 5 works. So far toward the end of chapter 4 a level 1 GA would net me 128 population or a level 6 around 256 population, compared to 450 population for a residence that takes the same amount of space. Coin production is not an issue for me.

I would also like to have a Needles to speed up troop production, but for right now my barracks upgrades are more than keeping pace with my single armory, and having a Needles would not be that helpful. The attack bonus for light ranged would be nice, but I find myself using light ranged less because I'm an autofighter and I don't get that many troop matchups where they'll be useful.

A major consideration is having a place to put KP when I don't want to invest it in the research tree. I have pretty good luck putting it into my fellow's ancient wonders. I frequently get almost as much or more AW KP back as I have put in. (We don't have an organized system, it just works out that way.) So while I like the idea of putting extra KP in ancient wonders and having a return in the future, because I'm not in any kind of rush to do anything in the game, the opportunity cost of just having a full knowledge bar and not accumulating any additional hourly KP is not a big deal to me. I am sure that is heretical to people who have many KP and really long research bars to fill, but for me at my stage of the game having a place to sink KP is not all that important.

Overall for me right now AWs are not worth they space they would take up in my city, independent of the negative effects they would have on tournament and Spire costs.

 

[StarLoad]

...

Overall for me right now AWs are not worth they space they would take up in my city, independent of the negative effects they would have on tournament and Spire costs.

Honestly, a very good plan, but I might offer that if you are Fighting then the MM or Sanctuary be the first you focus on as the benefit to your troop health is a critical factor in Auto-fighting. IMO

 

[Gladiola]

@ed1960 MM is definitely on my list after I have done the research! I hadn't thought of it as before GA, but what you are saying makes sense. I'll see if I can sneak it in.

 

[Guurt The Destroyer]

With regard to new players and Ancient Wonders, I think there is an argument that can be made for not having any Ancient Wonders at all early in the game. I am about to enter chapter 5 and don't have any yet.

I am pretty sure I will build a GA sometime in Chapter 5; I'm going to see how my city planning for chapter 5 works. So far toward the end of chapter 4 a level 1 GA would net me 128 population or a level 6 around 256 population, compared to 450 population for a residence that takes the same amount of space. Coin production is not an issue for me.

I would also like to have a Needles to speed up troop production, but for right now my barracks upgrades are more than keeping pace with my single armory, and having a Needles would not be that helpful. The attack bonus for light ranged would be nice, but I find myself using light ranged less because I'm an autofighter and I don't get that many troop matchups where they'll be useful.

A major consideration is having a place to put KP when I don't want to invest it in the research tree. I have pretty good luck putting it into my fellow's ancient wonders. I frequently get almost as much or more AW KP back as I have put in. (We don't have an organized system, it just works out that way.) So while I like the idea of putting extra KP in ancient wonders and having a return in the future, because I'm not in any kind of rush to do anything in the game, the opportunity cost of just having a full knowledge bar and not accumulating any additional hourly KP is not a big deal to me. I am sure that is heretical to people who have many KP and really long research bars to fill, but for me at my stage of the game having a place to sink KP is not all that important.

Overall for me right now AWs are not worth they space they would take up in my city, independent of the negative effects they would have on tournament and Spire costs.

I share your view about the Ancient Wonders somewhat. However, I manually fight battles at this point as I don't get to do too many of them. I do use a single set of archers for specific targets, pulling them back wards when no longer needed. So I was planning to put down Needles as my first AW. I also think I will build the Monastery when it becomes available, but I have a chapter and 1/2 to go before I will need to make that decision.

 

[mucksterme]

The attack bonus for light ranged would be nice, but I find myself using light ranged less because I'm an autofighter and I don't get that many troop matchups where they'll be useful.

You don't see many matchups?
If you build the needles and get that damage bonus; your archers will matchup well against three different enemy units.
Mages, Heavy Melee And enemy archers.
When your archer is buffed from AWs and also if you add on the crafted buff buildings, then even though the game will tell you it is "about even" actually you have a huge advantage.
This method holds true for your other units also.
So personally, I think you are undervaluing AWs.

 

[Gladiola]

@mucksterme What I mean is the distribution of troops. I don't seem to get many fights where light ranged are even or better against 4 or 5 of the enemy stacks, whereas I do see that with some frequency with heavy ranged, light melee and mages. It might be a reflection of the sorts of opponents I face in chapter 4. I don't expect this to hold long-term. It's just my current experience.

 

[Lemon Wren]

If you build the needles and get that damage bonus; your archers will matchup well against three different enemy units.
Mages, Heavy Melee And enemy archers.
When your archer is buffed from AWs and also if you add on the crafted buff buildings, then even though the game will tell you it is "about even" actually you have a huge advantage.

Good to know.

 

[crackie]

@mucksterme What I mean is the distribution of troops. I don't seem to get many fights where light ranged are even or better against 4 or 5 of the enemy stacks, whereas I do see that with some frequency with heavy ranged, light melee and mages. It might be a reflection of the sorts of opponents I face in chapter 4. I don't expect this to hold long-term. It's just my current experience.

The T1 tourneys are archer friendly.

 

[Deleted User - 849458436]

Here's my post from a similar thread.

Spoiler: Timewarp

This wonder not only really improves your real life but saves you pet food and most importantly lets you use the 5-day booster buildings for 2 full tournaments and 2 full spires at higher levels.

Spoiler: Needles of the tempest

Light ranged are the core of your army and your barracks will be your main producer for a long time.

Hi soggy, at what level do you have the timewarp to do 2 tournaments with a single batch of reinforcement buildings?
note that I have a polar bear at level 10

 

[samidodamage]

@Cronopiio
Since Soggy hasn't seen/responded to your post yet, here's a partial quote from me where I detailed how to get 2 tourneys/2 Spires on one set of boost bldgs and 4 pet food in this post. I recommend reading the entire post (yes, I'm long-winded! ) because it also has caveats about the size of my cities and other military support bldgs like AW's. The Time Warp needs to be at lvl 30 to do it this way:

Wait until Friday, place the bldgs, feed the Fire Chicken and do the Spire. Feed the polar bear and you've got from whatever time now until the tourney ends tomorrow (Saturday). You can do each province round one right after the other whenever you have time to knock some out until you've done whatever you wanted to for that week. The Spire launches Sunday: Feed the Fire Chicken; if you finish the Spire by Monday at the time you fed the bird on Sunday, you'll conserve pet food, too. When the tourney launches Tues, the temp bldgs will still be active, including the polar bear (its feeding lasts 5 days). Feed the Fire bird again and you have until Wed (at the earlier of either the time you placed the bldgs Friday or the time you fed the chicken) to get the tourney finished. 2 Spires, 2 tourneys, one set of boost bldgs and 4 pet food.

 

[DeletedUser29768]

Hi soggy, at what level do you have the timewarp to do 2 tournaments with a single batch of reinforcement buildings?
note that I have a polar bear at level 10

Soggy's timewarp is at level 30. From another thread:

I have a level 10 polar bear and 30 Timewarp, I start and finish the tournament all within the same 10-30 minutes.

 

[Darielle]

The GA is the best investment of all the wonders, in my humble opinion. Mine is currently at level 16 and it gives me almost 4,000 population PER SQUARE. You can't get that from any residence, not even a magical, and no event building either.

 

[iamthouth]

@Darielle I do concur. GA lvl 30 presently gives me 7840 pop per sq. Main Hall lvl 30 gives the same total amount, but on more squares, so 2940 per sq. And it just keeps climbing as I add more working population from upgrades.

Spoiler: GA 30

Spoiler: MH 30

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

@Darielle and @iamthouth remember that the pop provided by the GA is based on your working population, so the more factories and workshops and armories you have, plus the higher the level for other buildings that use pop, the more the GA provides. So if you replace two normal workshops with one magic workshop, for example, your GA will actually get worse. Or for people who don't use armories for orc production or to boost troop queues, the GA will be worse. The GA is probably best for caterers because they have to keep more factories and workshops built than a fighter does.

On a side note, in my chapter 18 city, my level 16 GA gives me 5826 pop per square, for now. Mountain Halls is only level 11 and since it covers 24 squares, I am more likely to dump it, than try to level it to where it might be worth more than other stuff in the same space. I also have zero use for the normal boosted goods bonus it gives.

 

[Darielle]

@Darielle and @iamthouth remember that the pop provided by the GA is based on your working population, so the more factories and workshops and armories you have, plus the higher the level for other buildings that use pop, the more the GA provides. So if you replace two normal workshops with one magic workshop, for example, your GA will actually get worse. Or for people who don't use armories for orc production or to boost troop queues, the GA will be worse. The GA is probably best for caterers because they have to keep more factories and workshops built than a fighter does.

On a side note, in my chapter 18 city, my level 16 GA gives me 5826 pop per square, for now. Mountain Halls is only level 11 and since it covers 24 squares, I am more likely to dump it, than try to level it to where it might be worth more than other stuff in the same space. I also have zero use for the normal boosted goods bonus it gives.

You're right, and that's a good point. While I only have 4 magic workshops (the regular ones are in storage) and four maxed armories, I do have a lot of factories, since I do use goods about half the time to cater.