Dew Spinner
Well-Known Member
Mosy players can not afford to craft every single recipe and need to pioritize what they craft, and there is plenty of JUNK in the crafting recipes. You don't see them as junk because of your niche play style.
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Your Elvenar Team
Why can't we trade relics?
- Thread starter Tehya1
- Start date
Iyapo1
Well-Known Member
But the OP is in chapter 3. In chapter 3 the MA is still full of all the evolving and set buildings currently in rotation. Those recipes are expensive! It is normal in chapter 3 to run out of relics.
Dew Spinner
Well-Known Member
Those recipes will keep appearing until they actually craft them, they don't need to run their inventories dry crafting them all at once. They don't have the artifacts to evolve them anyways, I understand you need to take them out of circulation so that military boost buildings will show up more often but that can be done in a timely way that doesn't completely run you out of relics. It comes down to choices, everyones' choices may be different but those choices determine a lot about subsequent game play. If someone like you is using a ton of CC's on crafting buildings just to disenchant them into Spell Fragments then that is their choice but it will cause a squeeze on their CC and Relic inventory.
Mykan
Oh Wise One
Short answer is it would be abused far too easily or too complex to prevent abuse and thus not worth adding it in. With the current mechanics my boosted relics are useless after max and I have a few thousand of them. Large towns already often give new towns goods, imagine a ch1 town being given relics to max boost from the start. People quitting could "gift" thousands of relics to other people to pass along. Or abuse/coding around quests to gain x relic.
Reality is it just isn't needed. You can get to 100% and 200% boosted relics very fast and generally stay in line with costs and production. Lots of tips above about how to boost production. I read through it a bit fast and saw some tips on tournaments to boost relics but might have missed people suggesting that you craft the relics. Relic crafts are some of the cheapest in the MA which is ideal for a ch 3 town without a spire set, those 5 relics help a lot towards boost levels when your town is very small.
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Enevhar Aldarion
Oh Wise One
Just remember the big change already on Beta and some other servers where you get all nine kinds of relic every tournament. That will both help and hurt the small cities. Slower to max boost, but more relics every week for making enchantments.
OIM20
Well-Known Member
I will craft these when I am between tourneys (or in Harandar, as I have fewer explored provinces there so far, it being my youngest city) or when I am just one shy of the known broken-shards-for-AWKP recipes. Because if I can trade broken shards for AWKP and hold on to my CCs to get it? Yes, please. And, admittedly, these broken shard recipes have a tendency to show up during FAs. So the Red Panda will help once it's at level 10 with that whole 1 VV for however many hours it takes to hand over my 270 spell frags and get a single broken shard. 4 VV in exchange for 270 spell frags will be a very nice trade.
Iyapo1
Well-Known Member
I always get them during the tournament! It is like a curse!
iamthouth
Tetris Master
With the 9 week cycle, you need 252 relics at the end of the tournament to last you the 9 weeks if producing Combining Catalysts only continously.
That is 9 weeks *7days *24hrs /6 hrs for each Combining Catalyst.
You can replace the final duration for whatever production you use;
Power of Provision is 9w * 7d *24hrs /4hrs = 378 relics needed
Enscrolled Endowment 9w *7d *24hrs /4hrs = 378 relics needed
Magical Manufactoring 9w * 7d *24hrs /8hrs = 189 relics needed
Inspiring Meditation 9w *7d *24hrs /6hrs = 252 relics needed
Assumes no time boosts used to complete the enchantments, and ignores other sources of enchantments and relics.
That is 9 weeks *7days *24hrs /6 hrs for each Combining Catalyst.
You can replace the final duration for whatever production you use;
Power of Provision is 9w * 7d *24hrs /4hrs = 378 relics needed
Enscrolled Endowment 9w *7d *24hrs /4hrs = 378 relics needed
Magical Manufactoring 9w * 7d *24hrs /8hrs = 189 relics needed
Inspiring Meditation 9w *7d *24hrs /6hrs = 252 relics needed
Assumes no time boosts used to complete the enchantments, and ignores other sources of enchantments and relics.
BrinDarby
Well-Known Member
Of course you don't have a relic problem. How long have you been in ch3 now? A year?
It's normal for ch3 cities to run out of crafting relics.
Both my CH3 cities, my main is CH4 , are only 6mo-ish old....
and It took me 2.5 weeks to get to CH3, usually each CH is a month...
I was pointing out that week 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 ect ect, I was NOT
running outta relics.... its called acct mgmt, and after already having 1 city
I knew alotta rookie mistakes not to make.....
you ppl need to stop harping on me, for playing a "long term strategy city-builder"
game, then not allowing me to have a long term strategy. It might not be and I know
it is NOT your strategy, but it is mine.... and there is a method to my madness...
Dew Spinner
Well-Known Member
Yes, this Forum could do with a lot less Snark! And Yes it's true that a lot of players want the game to fix poor resource management on their part.
Alram
Flippers just flip
@BrinDarby
I'm not picking on your play style. I'm saying you can't compare your ch3 cities to a brand new players ch3 city.
@Dew Spinner
It is NORMAL for a ch3 city to struggle with having enough relics. It is NOT inventory mismanagement.
@Tehya1
Tourney will definitely help but it will take some time.
I'm not picking on your play style. I'm saying you can't compare your ch3 cities to a brand new players ch3 city.
@Dew Spinner
It is NORMAL for a ch3 city to struggle with having enough relics. It is NOT inventory mismanagement.
@Tehya1
Tourney will definitely help but it will take some time.
Dew Spinner
Well-Known Member
I didn't struggle in Chapter 3 with relics because I managed my resources, hit tourney hard EVERY week, did NH visits EVERY day, crafted relics that I knew I was using a lot of and didn't waste CC's (relics) on the junky recipes. Chapter 3 cities struggle because they didn't do any homework on how the game is played before starting to play. Playing blind leads to a lot of mistakes!@BrinDarby
I'm not picking on your play style. I'm saying you can't compare your ch3 cities to a brand new players ch3 city.
@Dew Spinner
It is NORMAL for a ch3 city to struggle with having enough relics. It is NOT inventory mismanagement.
@Tehya1
Tourney will definitely help but it will take some time.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Like it or not, this is becoming a mobile game. How many people who play games on their phones are interested in "homework" for games? 0.01%? Fewer?
Dew Spinner
Well-Known Member
That's why they struggle, they are trying to play something the don't know how to play. Knowing the basics really helps.
OIM20
Well-Known Member
And yet someone had to play it first to be able to give you the information you studied before playing the game.
This is not the same thing as 'doing homework'. I can read the basics by doing the quests it gives me. I can determine what it wants me to do and how to play the game on the most basic of levels. And when it pops up in the "Did you know?" bits as I'm waiting on the game to load my city that there's a forum and a wiki, I can go look at that if I want more details.
Look, I found this game by complete happenstance as an ad in Firefox while I was typing in a URL on the homescreen in a new tab. I know I'm not the only one, and I know I'm not the only person who played "blind" and liked the game enough to continue. Not everyone wants or needs a play-by-play before starting a game.
But I don't think that, while we're telling people that they shouldn't make derogatory remarks because they don't like or agree with how @BrinDarby plays the game (or others, but they're feeling picked on, is the impression I'm getting) -- I don't think that's the appropriate time to start making derogatory remarks about how others choose to play the game.
If players choose to go into the game like it's 1985 with no GameFAQs and possibly a single Usenet room where they have to speak German to get assistance because that's where the game is developed only GUI instead of CHUI and stare at the pretty art as they build their city and ooh and ahh over the neat buildings they can get from events that are better culture than they can build in a lot of cases and don't cost them gold or supplies, then that's their choice.
But if players are having to do a lot of research to feel as though they can make it through a session of an online game, maybe there's something wrong with a game mechanic in there.
Could this be a factor in people deciding after building four residences that this isn't the game for them? Possibly. But Inno has to be doing something right for the game to have the worldwide user base that it does.
Dew Spinner
Well-Known Member
Somebody doing it first changes nothing about what I stated, if info is available and a player still plays blind it is not the games fault. My remarks were not derogatory they were stating a fact...many players play blind...nothing derogatory there. You can say anything is derogatory, if it fits your agenda. Doing your homework allows a player to avoid the many pitfalls the game presents and is why so many players abandon their 1st city (toooooo many mistakes) and start a new one once they know the mistakes they have made. So you can do it the easy way or the hard way, I choose the easy way, a lot less frustration. I have never struggled in this game for/with anything because I knew the pitfalls to avoid from the start and I knew how to start my city strong and on the right foot.
Edited to add...It did take me some time to wrap my head around which AWs were going to be most beneficial to my game. I always knew I wasn't going to build all or most of them, so wittling them down did take a lot of research and asking questions on the Forum and FB Groups. So I guess I would say I did struggle with that my 1st couple of months.
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OIM20
Well-Known Member
This is a lengthy reply. I'm not putting any of it behind spoilers. Just fair notice before you start reading.
Who said it was the game's fault? Did I misread something? Edit: See https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/why-cant-we-trade-relics.28375/post-229094
Your comments seem to be an attack on a style of gameplay:
I think maybe part of this is that there is no tone to be truly taken away from either of our comments. My statement
But back to the point. I don't think that those who played the game in its infancy felt that their choices were 'mistakes'. I don't think they felt there was a 'wrong' decision to make at that point. And even now, those who are just discovering the game and just starting out, I don't think that all of them (us) feel that the challenges they (we) encounter are a result of a 'wrong' decision.
This isn't a match 3 game where there are defined movements that can actually cause you to lose within the time limit. There are time limited functions within the game - Tourney, Spire, events - but none of them are required and you can't "lose" by choosing to do/not do them. Yes, if you don't do the tournaments, your game play will take longer than someone who does do them. But perhaps the player who chooses not to do tournaments doesn't want to commit themselves to one every week. The same argument can be made for the Spire, and even for the events as you can get an enormous amount of KP and a lot of very useful instants and spells from the chests in addition to the Daily Prize potential. And that doesn't even touch on the goods you can win with a dice roll, which I admit a lot of people look down on, but if you find yourself needing that 6200 crystal because you're at the top of the Spire and it's about to end before you can close a trade - no one in your FS is online & your neighbors who have crystal boosts aren't active - you might rejoice when you get those goods. It all depends on your personal needs.
And if I have an agenda, that is what it is: to express that everyone has their own method of playing this game, their own style, and calling someone's method/choice a mistake reads as derogatory to me. In that vein, I'd like to answer this:
I don't feel that any of the challenges I've faced - and continue to face - while playing are "struggles". I think the terms can be used interchangeably, if I understand their varied definitions correctly, but I'm not reading them that way here. My impression of what you mean by "struggle" is when someone complains about why something is or isn't. But when I write "challenge", I mean something that encouraged me to think about the task the game set for me to do and how best to go about accomplishing that task while still maintaining the style of play I want to have.
Yes, I use the guides, now that I know that they're there. Yes, I make use of the tools that I'm given, but the data that is on ElvenGems and ElvenArchitect that I rely on is mostly that involving building stats and functionality. I could get the data about the AWs from inside the game itself. I could do the math rather than use the tables and charts I'm provided on Gems - and the Wiki even. If the guides weren't there, I would have done the math on my own in deciding which AW to start with. I still would have decided Golden Abyss, and not just because 3x3 is less than 4x4.
I think when you write things like "right foot", you reinforce the idea that there is a "wrong" way to play this game. There really isn't, except to not play or try to break the game. This isn't "Lands of Lore III: Guardians of Destiny" where if you choose to take advantage of the option to kill the villagers instead of help them, the game slowly moves towards your demise. Even though it gives you the option, it's a trap.
But in Elvenar, when it gives you a choice to build an AW or not, it's not going to slowly choke your city if you don't. They're tools to help progress certain styles of gameplay. Why would I not want to build a Golden Abyss? If I'm a player who only comes online twice a day and I'm in the earlier chapters where the population isn't going to be a benefit to me unless I pour all of my KP into that AW instead of the tech tree, I might feel it's more beneficial to my city to put in a Tome of Secrets so I only have to worry about 24-hour collection. I might feel that it's not beneficial to dedicate space to a building whose benefits I can't take advantage of; in one case that's "yet", and in the other (the gold) I would be missing out on the 3-hour collections, so it wouldn't be as beneficial to me. In the above scenario, please understand, because I love my GA in each of my cities, and I'm on fairly frequently.
I felt that the thread was opened to ask a question of, "Hey, is there a method behind this madness?" with respect to why trade can be done in most things in the game, but not in certain specific things. I did not get the impression that OP felt their method of playing the game was right or wrong or any better than anyone else's. Just, perhaps, that they had an idea that they wanted to get more information on the mechanics of the game before putting it forward. And, we provided that information and some tips on how to answer the challenge they're facing.
But their choices to craft whatever pops into the MA, if that's what they're doing, aren't wrong. No matter how much you think it's junk, there's a reason, in their mind, to continue crafting. Whether that be to get the Mystical Object as frequently as possible like Iyapo1, or to stockpile their time boosts, or to get broken relics so they can forge a rune and keep the runes they win from provinces / tournament / event chests intact (for you never know when you might need them and there will be nary a one to be had) -- whatever their reasoning, they want to craft in the MA. It's not a 'mistake' to do so.
It's merely a challenge to find a balance. You did that with the help of research and the benefit of the wisdom of players who came before you. Others choose to do that through the trial and error of gameplay. Neither decision is wrong.
Agenda? What exactly do you think I meant? Going by the conversation to that point, BrinDarby appeared to be feeling picked on. You then made a remark about people in the forum being snippy, agreeing with Brin that it needed to be less so, seeming to think that they are being treated unfairly by the apparent disapproval of their style of gameplay. But you then seemed to blame people for asking why something is or isn't - not a "I don't get the quest" kind of question, but more of a "general discussion because I don't know and don't want to make a post in the I&S forum until I do know" question.
Your comments seem to be an attack on a style of gameplay:
but I've misread comments from you before, so it is very likely that this is me not understanding something again. Sometimes the nuance of a language can escape us when we try but don't always succeed in understanding.
I think maybe part of this is that there is no tone to be truly taken away from either of our comments. My statement
was a direct response to the idea that the choices people make in their gameplay, whether they lead to challenges or not, are in fact mistakes. I realize I might not have been clear on that while thinking I was. It wasn't/isn't the first miscommunication I had/have had yesterday/today, and I expect there will be more. I go into each day knowing I will say something "wrong" and have to fix it.
But back to the point. I don't think that those who played the game in its infancy felt that their choices were 'mistakes'. I don't think they felt there was a 'wrong' decision to make at that point. And even now, those who are just discovering the game and just starting out, I don't think that all of them (us) feel that the challenges they (we) encounter are a result of a 'wrong' decision.
This isn't a match 3 game where there are defined movements that can actually cause you to lose within the time limit. There are time limited functions within the game - Tourney, Spire, events - but none of them are required and you can't "lose" by choosing to do/not do them. Yes, if you don't do the tournaments, your game play will take longer than someone who does do them. But perhaps the player who chooses not to do tournaments doesn't want to commit themselves to one every week. The same argument can be made for the Spire, and even for the events as you can get an enormous amount of KP and a lot of very useful instants and spells from the chests in addition to the Daily Prize potential. And that doesn't even touch on the goods you can win with a dice roll, which I admit a lot of people look down on, but if you find yourself needing that 6200 crystal because you're at the top of the Spire and it's about to end before you can close a trade - no one in your FS is online & your neighbors who have crystal boosts aren't active - you might rejoice when you get those goods. It all depends on your personal needs.
And if I have an agenda, that is what it is: to express that everyone has their own method of playing this game, their own style, and calling someone's method/choice a mistake reads as derogatory to me. In that vein, I'd like to answer this:
Not trying to ignore your addendum about AWs, but I'd like to focus on the 'right foot' and 'struggles' aspect of your reply.
I don't feel that any of the challenges I've faced - and continue to face - while playing are "struggles". I think the terms can be used interchangeably, if I understand their varied definitions correctly, but I'm not reading them that way here. My impression of what you mean by "struggle" is when someone complains about why something is or isn't. But when I write "challenge", I mean something that encouraged me to think about the task the game set for me to do and how best to go about accomplishing that task while still maintaining the style of play I want to have.
Yes, I use the guides, now that I know that they're there. Yes, I make use of the tools that I'm given, but the data that is on ElvenGems and ElvenArchitect that I rely on is mostly that involving building stats and functionality. I could get the data about the AWs from inside the game itself. I could do the math rather than use the tables and charts I'm provided on Gems - and the Wiki even. If the guides weren't there, I would have done the math on my own in deciding which AW to start with. I still would have decided Golden Abyss, and not just because 3x3 is less than 4x4.
I think when you write things like "right foot", you reinforce the idea that there is a "wrong" way to play this game. There really isn't, except to not play or try to break the game. This isn't "Lands of Lore III: Guardians of Destiny" where if you choose to take advantage of the option to kill the villagers instead of help them, the game slowly moves towards your demise. Even though it gives you the option, it's a trap.
But in Elvenar, when it gives you a choice to build an AW or not, it's not going to slowly choke your city if you don't. They're tools to help progress certain styles of gameplay. Why would I not want to build a Golden Abyss? If I'm a player who only comes online twice a day and I'm in the earlier chapters where the population isn't going to be a benefit to me unless I pour all of my KP into that AW instead of the tech tree, I might feel it's more beneficial to my city to put in a Tome of Secrets so I only have to worry about 24-hour collection. I might feel that it's not beneficial to dedicate space to a building whose benefits I can't take advantage of; in one case that's "yet", and in the other (the gold) I would be missing out on the 3-hour collections, so it wouldn't be as beneficial to me. In the above scenario, please understand, because I love my GA in each of my cities, and I'm on fairly frequently.
I felt that the thread was opened to ask a question of, "Hey, is there a method behind this madness?" with respect to why trade can be done in most things in the game, but not in certain specific things. I did not get the impression that OP felt their method of playing the game was right or wrong or any better than anyone else's. Just, perhaps, that they had an idea that they wanted to get more information on the mechanics of the game before putting it forward. And, we provided that information and some tips on how to answer the challenge they're facing.
But their choices to craft whatever pops into the MA, if that's what they're doing, aren't wrong. No matter how much you think it's junk, there's a reason, in their mind, to continue crafting. Whether that be to get the Mystical Object as frequently as possible like Iyapo1, or to stockpile their time boosts, or to get broken relics so they can forge a rune and keep the runes they win from provinces / tournament / event chests intact (for you never know when you might need them and there will be nary a one to be had) -- whatever their reasoning, they want to craft in the MA. It's not a 'mistake' to do so.
It's merely a challenge to find a balance. You did that with the help of research and the benefit of the wisdom of players who came before you. Others choose to do that through the trial and error of gameplay. Neither decision is wrong.
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OIM20
Well-Known Member
Ah! I understand now! You're referencing my comment:
I think this is another miscommunication.
Using a tool made available to you, by the game or fans, is perfectly acceptable. My comment was meant to address the idea that it is required for someone to rely on those tools in order to play the game. That was what I understood your post - the one I was replying to above - to state.
I will try to rephrase: If the game is requiring players to access tools that it doesn't include, then perhaps there is something in the game that needs to be changed. We make suggestions like this all the time, with not having to use spreadsheets to track Spire scores and Tournament participation being recent ones I can think of. That was my intent behind that statement - we should not, as players of Elvenar, feel it is required to use offsite tools in order to play the game.
Dew Spinner
Well-Known Member
You know full well that players complain that the game should be changed (games fault) because they are struggling with a particular part of the game which comes down to resource manament on the player's side of thing. If players start to play blind then they are going to struggle and the game should not be changed because of that. I am not going to get into a lengthy argument with you because we both know that I am right.