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Your Elvenar Team
Feedback Quick and Dirty Summary of Ancient Wonder Changes
- Thread starter BrinDarby
- Start date
Henroo
Oh Wise One
Gotcha. I had forgotten that. Since I have 12 million orcs or more in every city and since I currently have no need of Ascended Goods, I've got mine set on making Banshees. However, I am pretty sure that the bonus from LGN will only apply to the basic orc production. And that Pyramid will only be triggered based on the basic orc production. All of the link bonuses will not count.
Pheryll
Set Designer
LoGN triggers for set bonus as well, though this is not reported on the building.
Henroo
Oh Wise One
Pyramid doesn't. And if orcs are the secondary effect, it will not trigger. For example, Witch Hut is the 2nd best orc producer in the game behind Echoes of the Forgotten. However: the primary production of Witch Hut is considered to be Frogs, therefore Pyramid does not trigger. This is actually the reason I decided against building and leveling Pyramid of Purification. I have 2 fully evolved Witch Huts in each city and they are a big part of my orc production. It did not seem very efficient to build a wonder based on orc production which would not work with a good chunk of my cities' orc production.
Dominionofgod
Thinker of Ideas
Even if so.. thats far less elegant then what i would hope for. And require a lot more work to view things.
Also, as i look, it looks like you can only see changes up to the past 30 days.
Pheryll
Set Designer
Not sure if you have LoGN or not. But there are 4 things to look at.
1) Base production
2) LoGN bonus to base production
3) Set bonus
4) LoGN bonus to set bonus
Pyramid has been reported to trigger for 1) and 2). 3) it should not trigger for. 4) is unknown. If you wish to test make sure you look at the change in inventory, or the floating amount over the inventory when you collect. Do not look at what the building says or the floating amount over the building when you collect.
Pheryll
Set Designer
The button for view history is a drop down from the view source button.
Dominionofgod
Thinker of Ideas
i see it now. Still tho, a pita. Id rather just see them copy the code for the whole aw section and make a duplicate. Then adjust the values of the second one to the new values. Change the title of the first one to 'old values' or something. Given that its not just a change to one or two aw's but to all of them (or at least many of them).
MichaelMichael
Day and Night Trader
I have completed chapter 21, the biggest nerf IMO, is the requirement for RR. I complete 50 provinces every week, my fellowship completes 14-16 levels in Tourney and more often than not achieves Gold Spire. I am an old player and have many buildings from the old Moonstone set (11 Moonstone Libraries, upgraded to chapter 20 or 21 - all have been out for some time) that produce Spell fragments every day so I have inventory and production - the question I cannot answer is where I am to get RR. I get perhaps 10 RRs a week from the Tourney. That is not enough to support AW upgrades even for every 5th level. Today, I bought two more blueprints so I can craft them into RRs. There are a few odd sorceries that can gain lots of 4 RRs. As an advanced player, I might find a way, but how a starting player gets any RRs is beyond me. Going it alone without a strong fellowship is now entirely untenable. Also upgrading any building with RRs or blueprints is no longer a viable option.
Overall, the game is worse, particularly for new players. For advanced players like me that already have most important AW at level 30 or more (17 total), this change is just a change, perhaps slowing advancements in someways and speeding advancements in others. .
Overall, the game is worse, particularly for new players. For advanced players like me that already have most important AW at level 30 or more (17 total), this change is just a change, perhaps slowing advancements in someways and speeding advancements in others. .
Dominionofgod
Thinker of Ideas
aside form the change in the needles aw, was the a change in the training time of units?
Henroo
Oh Wise One
Actually, I would say the update made every single advanced city with highly leveled AWs better.
The big nerf for most was the change to culture for Watchtower Ruins and Martial Monaster/Sanctuary. And this did hit some cities which relied heavily on these 2 wonders for culture very hard. Beyond that, the amount of mana Dragon Abbey makes got reduced. However, the max damage bonus it can provide to mage units increased from 40% to 50%. Personally, I do not consider this a nerf. I am very combat oriented and I am willing to trade less mana production for better mage unit performance. But I do realize others might not agree.
But: other than these 3, I think virtually every ancient wonder in the game is now more powerful than it was pre-update. I'm getting more population and gold from my Golden Abyss, more seeds from my Sunset Towers, more supplies and better bonuses from Prosperity Towers. More damage bonus to my Light Range troops from Needles of Tempest. I could go on... But trust me when I say that in virtually every way my cities are more productive and powerful today than they were 2 days ago.
My main complaint centers around the upgrade costs for AWs. And that is more on behalf of others than myself. I've been playing for nearly 4 years and I have done a lot of leveling to my AWs. The ones I view as most important are around at level 30 or higher. Further leveling is going to be expensive, but I actually have the resources (combining catalysts and spell fragments) built up to do so. The Royal Restorations will hurt, but I can even manage that. But there is no way a new player who has only been playing a few months is going to be able to pay these new upgrade costs for AWs. And even if are very dedicated and play daily, they will not level up as many AWs in a 4 year time period as I have done so under the old system. Furthermore, playing solo is no longer an option if you really want to level AWs. To get the Royal Restorations and CCs you need to level AWs a player is going to be forced to join a 10 chest, bronze spire fellowship at minimum. This update has put the stake in the solo player playstyle.
But what Inno has really done is create a huge power gap between the existing large cities with highly leveled ancient wonders and any new city. Anybody starting the game today is going to basically be a permanent disadvantage in tournament performance and resource production when compared to an existing high level city with lots of developed AWs. To some degree, this power gap has always existed. But it used to be possible to close it after a few years of effort. I'm not sure that is possible anymore. The cost of leveling every single important AW from scratch is just going to be too high.
Dominionofgod
Thinker of Ideas
Think you mean thrones, not ruins. Ruins still offeres some decent culture. Thrones... mine went form 30somehting k.. to 1759
I forget the old value of culture for MM. But now its equal to my ruins.
Pheryll
Set Designer
This value is far too low unless you are at the very early chapters. Disconnect and reconnect your thrones from your main hall, and your bugged numbers might fix themselves.
Yavimaya
Scroll-Keeper
Most players are extremely upset and many threatened to stop playing and some already sadly quit. The Elvenar discord server has been blowing up for a week straight now since the new changes were launched on beta and then blew up even more when they still decided to launch it on live when it was almost 100 percent negative feedback! You are NOT alone! I really feel players should wait a little before quitting though as there are more adjustments coming and they may make this workable somehow.
Henroo
Oh Wise One
No, I meant Watchtower Ruins. Under the old system, it was based on your total required culture. The more culture your city needed, the more it gave. It maxed out at 40% of the total culture needed at level 30. Martial Monastery/Sanctuary worked in the exact same manner. Therefore, pre-update a player could run a very culture intensive city and could get 80% of the total culture they needed from 2 L30 ancient wonders. This is no longer possible. And the change to these 2 AWs is why some players went culture negative after the update.
Thrones of the High Men's primary benefit seems to be player ranking. And the culture it provides seems to be partially based on player points. I've honestly never given much thought to player points or ranking. I've always been concerned with how I can perform better in tournament and spire. So I am not sure I am the right person to evaluate Thrones of the High Men. Other than saying as a tournament/spire focued player I would never build it.
Supertaco311
New Member
I hope so. I’m giving them 3 days and then I’m done.
Mykan
Oh Wise One
No Watchtower took a big hit in culture (cost me approx. 800K culture), it used the same mechanic as MM/Sanc did pre-update. Thrones seems to depend on specific towns but mine got a huge buff in culture.
Thrones always was a late game wonder and was not a good choice with sub 600 wonder levels and debateable even then. No clue what is a good number now but you need to have lots of wonders and late game MH for it to crank out "good" numbers. Mine is max so I am not going to math out what would be good now and I aint getting rid of the work to get it max even if the culture don't stack up.
It is still sad when I see my auction outperforms a lvl 35 watchtower (thanks to its bonus to culture)
Dominionofgod
Thinker of Ideas
Tried, no difference. At start of wood elves, thrones lvl 30
used to give me 35100 culture. Now only 1759. Same on both cities.
As am I. I built the Ruins and the Thrones strictly for the culture bonus. Got to it lvl 30 a month or so ago. Figured my GA and MH were at 30 for population. Mine as well grab culture as well. Now it went form 35k to 1759... such a waste. The aw is nearly useless to me now. Just seems a waste to sell it off after all that work, so ill leave it there.
Gotta disagree there. Tho i might be a more rare case. I stopped in the tech tree at the start of woodelves. A lot longer then i intended to. Right now i have 234 aw levels. The thrones (before update) gave me 35k culture. My required culture for my whole city is only 44k. So that one aw was almost enough to power my whole city alone. So i would certainly not say its less then effective sub 600 levels; not at lvl 30.
Guess it depends on the city and how its set up/its numbers adn the squad size upgrades.
For my city, the ruins before the update @lvl 30 with 44k required cult gave me 17600 cult bonus
Now it gives a % of squad size which for me is 1140*1800%=20,520 cult bonus.
So in this case, the watchtower aw give me a higher bonus.
If i had finished upgrading the rest of my buildings (since getting magic residence/ws from spire and aw pop/cult bonues) i would have had a required cult of about 59-60k. So at 60k cult req, then i would have gotten 24k bonus cult. In this case, the change would have lost me some cult form the watchtower AW.
So it can go both way, depending on how your city and numbers are. Granted, the second example is where i should be..
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Yavimaya
Scroll-Keeper
What about next update or next announcement? Or, if 3 days how about check the discord server to see any updates a month later maybe or see what has happened by then and if they fixed any of the new issues they created? I really hate to see people go and leave behind their wonderful cities they have done.
Mykan
Oh Wise One
This would be key as you can really customise things with parked towns in ways not always intended. I could never get the culture per square good enough compared to event buildings until much higher wonder levels. But now its mechanic is based on MH rank points and wonder levels so your MH will limit how much you can get. You may be one of the edge cases they tried to capture.