Release Notes version 1.39

[SoggyShorts]

You'd think so. But can you prove 100% that they are push accounts? (although it's totally obvious using common sense)

Not 100%, no. So what though? Any other company would at least send the push accounts a warning to stop the behaviour, and then delete them if they didn't.
I guess it's pretty simple. inno considered the idea that if players decide they don't need to spend diamonds to upgrade wonders super fast they'd lose some money, but letting cheaters do it with push accounts is nothing compared to having those players upgrade 40 magic buildings every chapter.

 

[DeletedUser6219]

Pretty sure nothing is done since they have spent so much money on diamonds. Just my two cents.

 

[DeletedUser4993]

Though I'm sure there are going to be people who immediately claim otherwise, many players only visit those who they have golden hands with, so on the whole this change is pretty much just that, a change, rather than being worse or better.

Also keep in mind that the bonus to NH duration on culture buildings is remaining completely unchanged, and that has a pretty significant impact as well for those who rely on culture through NH.

That is right I immediately claim otherwise. The only reason I visit 450+ neighbors on a 4-5 day basis is for goods. Now it will only be when I need coin. So you go live in your bubble world and believe this won't change the way people play.

 

[DeletedUser11961]

I am slightly relived that there will be no more goods for each neighbor I visit. Because of the goods, I felt the pressure to visit over a 100 neighbors + the 25 in the FS everyday. Now it'll be just the FS and returning the favor to the neighbors who visit me; with occasional visits to all neighbors when I need gold.

I literally get back 20+ minutes of my life everyday -- visiting 100+ neighbors took a long time.

 

[SoulsSilhouette]

the update to the CL/BS will completely destroy neighborhoods, so why not let us be the fantasy version of FoE and attack one another? Because no one is going to visit when there is absolutely nothing in it for them.

 

[DeletedUser9601]

You'd think so. But can you prove 100% that they are push accounts? (although it's totally obvious using common sense)

They don't need to prove 100%. Its their game. The ToS is pretty clear that Inno can do pretty much anything to your account.
If they see 50 accounts tied to the same IP, that's probably more than enough for them to make the decision.

 

[Ashrem]

They don't need to prove 100%. Its their game. The ToS is pretty clear that Inno can do pretty much anything to your account.
If they see 50 accounts tied to the same IP, that's probably more than enough for them to make the decision.

Yes, they can, but by accepting money for diamonds they have created certain legal obligations that make it less cut-and-dried what they can or can't do. It seems obvious to some of us that the accounts should be disabled, but what if (as one example) someone complains about having their account disabled and the credit card companies, or Paypal, decide Inno have violated their ToS? Then they won't let anyone make purchases, and instead of cheaters and angry players Inno will have unemployed developers and angry players across all of their games.

Inno isn't a local group of people running a game night at the library. It's an international company with legal obligations to those who give them money. I expect that if they have sufficient evidence of a breach of their terms, they will act appropriately. That doesn't mean it will happen as quickly as anyone would like, or that we'll ever know what happened.

Not to mention, someone that can shell out hundreds of dollars for diamonds probably has one or mor VPN accounts and can easily operate each of their shells from a different country or region, making it harder for Inno to prove they are connected in some way.

 

[DeletedUser2870]

So...you've had your feedback on beta that said DO NOT WANT!! Now you're shoving it here with the same lack of accurate decryption and any solid information about the change.
And you wan't feedback?! What for?!
Well, clearly it doesn't matter what the feedback is. There is a "PLAN" and we either put up with being spoon fed your dogma or finally break free and give you your righteously earned "it sucks" review...
I'm ever so nearing that point.

Which is what Inno has been doing with lots of their changes. Try it on beta, get a LOT of people saying: no, this is NOT an improvement, and then force it on everyone anyway. Its one of the reasons I don't really bother anymore on the betaforum. What use is it to have a testingground when in over 90% of the cases they don't listen to the feedback anyway?

I spent quite a lot of kps on 2 different accounts to upgrade my CL and now those points pretty much went down the drain.
They already downgraded the BTG a while ago.
If you as devs have some kind of PLAN or direction you want to take this game you really should start sharing it with the players so they dont get nasty surprises all the time and can call it quits before being f*****d 3 ways from sunday time and time again

 

[DeletedUser2870]

What, you don't benefit from the bonus duration on your culture buildings? Personally, I do so that's reason enough for me to keep it even if I was someone negatively impacted by the change to the goods bonus.

Its not enough for me. The culture bonus really is hardly worth anything. The additional coins for a high culture arent much use. Its only very rarely I am short on coins and then one complete round on the map, though it takes a lot of time, pretty much takes care of that.
The additional amount of supplies sounds nice, but if you just put up one additional workshop you do better than the cultural bonus most of the time and it saves a lot of space on cultural buildings.
Sooooo..yes, I mostly put up the lighthouse for additional goods as a bonus for taking the time to make the rounds. This change is one more reason not to make as many outside my FS anymore as the amount of time needed is disproportionate.

IF..that is IF they are going to make NH so much easier that the CL is going to be overpowered then they should downgrade it AFTER that change...and fix all the bugs that will pop up with the change. Not downgrade it in advance over something that may or may not be implemented sometime in the future.

 

[DeletedUser9601]

Which is what Inno has been doing with lots of their changes. Try it on beta, get a LOT of people saying: no, this is NOT an improvement, and then force it on everyone anyway. Its one of the reasons I don't really bother anymore on the betaforum. What use is it to have a testingground when in over 90% of the cases they don't listen to the feedback anyway?

Notwithstanding the BS line in the release notes, I'm sure Inno is very aware that the change is not an improvement for a lot of players. When the feedback is "we don't like this change, we like that CL/BS is the strongest AW in the game by far," and Inno makes the change because its too powerful, of course they're not going to listen to feedback.

The fact that you and many others have so much outrage over this should go to show that maybe Inno is doing the right thing here.

This is a constantly evolving game. I don't understand why people have an unreasonable expectation that there will never be balancing changes.

 

[Ashrem]

I don't understand why people have an unreasonable expectation that there will never be balancing changes.

I don't think anyone thinks that. To interpret complaints about a change as thinking that people don't think there should be any changes is a big stretch.

Our lives and history teach us that the squeaky wheel gets the oil. Complainants don't necessarily expect any good to come of the complaint, but we absolutely know if we don't complain then nothing will come of it. It costs nothing to complain, and if we don't complain, they have no reason to consider if they should change their decision.

 

[DeletedUser9601]

I don't think anyone thinks that. To interpret complaints about a change as thinking that people don't think there should be any changes is a big stretch.

Our lives and history teach us that the squeaky wheel gets the oil. Complainants don't necessarily expect any good to come of the complaint, but we absolutely know if we don't complain then nothing will come of it. It costs nothing to complain, and if we don't complain, they have no reason to consider if they should change their decision.

I think generally that's right, but reading some of the folks posting here, I think there are definitely people who have the mindset (and it comes out in the words they use in their posts) that:
-anything good that I have in my city or have invested resources in shouldn't change, and
-anything bad or mediocre that I have or want should be changed to be good.

We saw it when the AWs got an overhaul. We saw it when the battle system was rebalanced. We saw it when tournaments were rebalanced.
I understand wanting your voice heard, the squeaky wheel, etc. But there's a lot of posts where people are acting like this change is a personal attack by Inno, rather than a (probably necessary) adjustment of a game mechanic.
There's plenty of posts saying "this negatively affects me; I don't like the change." I think those posts make sense are are all well and good. There are other posts that scream "I don't understand that the game is evolving and will continually be balanced through development." And that second set, in my opinion, doesn't add to the debate.

 

[Ashrem]

I think generally that's right, but reading some of the folks posting here, I think there are definitely people who have the mindset (and it comes out in the words they use in their posts) that:
-anything good that I have in my city or have invested resources in shouldn't change, and
-anything bad or mediocre that I have or want should be changed to be good.

We saw it when the AWs got an overhaul. We saw it when the battle system was rebalanced. We saw it when tournaments were rebalanced.
I understand wanting your voice heard, the squeaky wheel, etc. But there's a lot of posts where people are acting like this change is a personal attack by Inno, rather than a (probably necessary) adjustment of a game mechanic.
There's plenty of posts saying "this negatively affects me; I don't like the change." I think those posts make sense are are all well and good. There are other posts that scream "I don't understand that the game is evolving and will continually be balanced through development." And that second set, in my opinion, doesn't add to the debate.

It's possible you're correct, but I think it's far more likely that they are perfectly aware the change might be needed, but aren't going to say that. If someone is arguing for preserving something they like, they will rarely say "I think this is a good change but I wish you wouldn't do it." they will say "this sucks and I'm going to quit forever and never buy diamonds again" in hopes that their outrage will result in the effect they desire. That's pretty basic human nature. It takes a fair degree of self awareness to resist that urge regularly.

The fact that the reasons given are pretty bogus, and the description tries to paint it as a good thing for most people is just more fodder for that indignation.

 

[DeletedUser2870]

the feedback is "we don't like this change, we like that CL/BS is the strongest AW in the game by far," and Inno makes the change because its too powerful, of course they're not going to listen to feedback.

Its not even close to being the most powerfull AW in the game. It MIGHT become overpowered IF doing the NH-rounds on the map become a lot less timeconsuming, but that is speculation.
And I'm sure that at lvl 20 or so it may be a powehouse, but that's only really doable by having a lot of push-accounts to donate KP's everyday, For a normal player its hard enough to get it past lvl 10 and play the game, unless perhaps one is only concentrating on one AW. I'm nearing the end of the halflings and my CL is lvl 7.

The fact that you and many others have so much outrage over this should go to show that maybe Inno is doing the right thing here.

That is a statement I can only classify as garbage, since it would mean that everything players cause an uproar about should be ignored. If that's going to be the policy Inno should not ask for feedback.
Feedback only is useful if something is done with it. If one is determined not to pay attention to it, don't bother asking for it.

This is a constantly evolving game. I don't understand why people have an unreasonable expectation that there will never be balancing changes.

"balance" is always being used as an excuse, but its hardly ever explained. However, there never seems to be something to balance anything in favor of the players.
Also, there is no real explanantion of why it is unbalanced, nor why it has been deemed so now, while its one of the AW's that was the first to be introduced into the game and thus has had the most time to be evaluated.

yes, its an evolving game. Yes, that means things will be changed. Players dont mind (on average) that things change. But this game is constantly changing in a way the players aren't linking. Over the last year quite a few high-chapter players have quit over those changes.

 

[DeletedUser2870]

It's possible you're correct, but I think it's far more likely that they are perfectly aware the change might be needed, but aren't going to say that. If someone is arguing for preserving something they like, they will rarely say "I think this is a good change but I wish you wouldn't do it." they will say "this sucks and I'm going to quit forever and never buy diamonds again" in hopes that their outrage will result in the effect they desire. That's pretty basic human nature. It takes a fair degree of self awareness to resist that urge regularly.

The fact that the reasons given are pretty bogus, and the description tries to paint it as a good thing for most people is just more fodder for that indignation.

It may be so. But personally I think there's something else that's the point.
Players make a choice of the AW's they place in their cities. Its impossible to have all of them, or even most of them and still have room for a running city.
So when it's placed, it tends to become a treasured building. Players also invest a good part of their progress in the game (KP's) in those buildings, and have FS-members and neighbours do the same. Countless systems have been set up to donate KP's to each others AWs to upgrade them and some AW's are/have become part of the players strategy on how to play the game.

So its not exactly unreasonable to be p*ssed off when Inno -once again- suddenly decides to pretty much destroy the effects of one of your AWs. Its not like another building you can sell and get back resources and pop and used-up culture. And one definitely does not get back the runes invested in the building and upgrading, nor the KPs invested.
So what happens is that Inno suddenly decides to take a lot of your effort and throw it into the trash. THATS what makes people so angry.
I mean, lets say one invests 5kp in an AW every day. That's about 20% of what one gets from the daily progress. So one could conceivable be further along the tree. Or boosted an AW that still is usefull. A lvl6-7 AW represents 1000s of KPs. Even if one only invested a small amount of the points and got most by donation (I wish) it still means one dropped at least 1000KPs into it. That represents at least 40 days of regular play....gone to waste because someone suddenly decided it is 'too powerfull'. I wonder how one would react if at work someone suddenly comes along and throws 40 days worth of painstaking work in the trash.

 

[Ashrem]

So its not exactly unreasonable to be p*ssed off when Inno -once again- suddenly decides to pretty much destroy the effects of one of your AWs.

I'm not addressing how annoyed players are, or how annoyed they ought to be, only that it's impossible to tell from forum posts whether they are actually outraged and how much. The posts, by the nature of forums, are going to appear to be at-or-near maximum potential-upset for the person involved, but that is what is most likely to get the result they desire. I'm sure there is at least one player who really is outraged, but Forum outrage does not represent a good sample.

 

[DeletedUser9601]

"balance" is always being used as an excuse, but its hardly ever explained. However, there never seems to be something to balance anything in favor of the players.
Also, there is no real explanantion of why it is unbalanced, nor why it has been deemed so now, while its one of the AW's that was the first to be introduced into the game and thus has had the most time to be evaluated.

The balance issue is pretty obvious. If you have time and are reasonably advanced, CL lets you grind out goods through neighborly help. No other AW lets you do that. And no other game mechanic, other than 5-min workshop productions, let you grind out goods or supplies or gold. And as Inno works on its mobile device and re-assesses neighborly help, the balance issue becomes more pronounced.

And if you have a level 8 CL, it sucks that its less valuable, but its far from useless. Maybe you delete it because it takes up a lot of space, but you might decide the smaller number of goods is still worth it. I'll probably delete mine when I hit Orcs in 2 weeks because I suspect I'd rather have 3-4 more mushroom farms. But you still got a ton of use, and a ton of goods, out of it, in the months it took to level 8. Sometimes game mechanics get phased out. If the next chapter doesn't use mana, is that an unreasonable nerf to Maze of Dark Matters?

I don't want to be in a world where AWs are untouchable because we invest so much in them. In that world, all AWs are mediocre, because Inno can't make one good, because it might be "too good." But since AWs are on a pedestal and immutable, Inno now can't change them for fear of outrage from players.

 

[SoulsSilhouette]

The balance issue is pretty obvious. If you have time and are reasonably advanced, CL lets you grind out goods through neighborly help. No other AW lets you do that. And no other game mechanic, other than 5-min workshop productions, let you grind out goods or supplies or gold. And as Inno works on its mobile device and re-assesses neighborly help, the balance issue becomes more pronounced.

And if you have a level 8 CL, it sucks that its less valuable, but its far from useless. Maybe you delete it because it takes up a lot of space, but you might decide the smaller number of goods is still worth it. I'll probably delete mine when I hit Orcs in 2 weeks because I suspect I'd rather have 3-4 more mushroom farms. But you still got a ton of use, and a ton of goods, out of it, in the months it took to level 8. Sometimes game mechanics get phased out. If the next chapter doesn't use mana, is that an unreasonable nerf to Maze of Dark Matters?

I don't want to be in a world where AWs are untouchable because we invest so much in them. In that world, all AWs are mediocre, because Inno can't make one good, because it might be "too good." But since AWs are on a pedestal and immutable, Inno now can't change them for fear of outrage from players.

This is my major issue and from reading the forum, what I believe many others feel the same.....

The benefit of visiting neighbors who NEVER visit you is that the CL gave you goods. Inno has added worlds when the worlds that exist are full of abandoned cities. So, if they are abandoned, you will never get anything but coins and with the CL, goods. Neighborhood visits are sparse at best so it was INCENTIVE to visit neighbors. Now, there will be even less neighborhood involvement even IF they make hood visits easier. I have a great number of discovered neighbors. I get regular visits from 5. I think this is just another way to limit what a player can do without buying diamonds. They have fellowships limited to 25 and now almost everything depends on fellowship participation.

AW's are a big part of the way I play the game. I have all my available AW's up. I invest KP's into them and move more slowly through the research tree because I LIKE the AW's and their effects for myself and my fellowship. They completely changed the economy of the game with the trader changes. I understood those changes and have adapted my play and it is beneficial because it forces more trades, which helped alot since I am an active trader.

"Balance" with the economy is important but I believe that balance was achieved with the trader changes. I would be ok with the CL changing from always being boosted goods to random goods, but to take it away entirely and THEN just maybe you get some in a chest (which sometimes I don't even get from the game) is a huge blow.

You can say I'm whining and you can say that I'm wrong and that somehow I'm ignorant of the way things work, but I truly believe this is Inno pushing people into buying diamonds in order to be able to advance.

 

[DeletedUser7471]

I agree with SoulsSilhouette (above) that the only reason I visit as many neighbors as I do is for the CL buffs. I rarely need the money. And likewise I only receive neighborly help from approximately 10 of my neighbors if I'm lucky. If one of the main game mechanics is neighborly help (for the FS and neighbors alike), why in the world would you push a change that will most definitely deter people from providing more neighborly help? I personally am not going to buy diamonds ever. There is no real point to the game itself other than to upgrade your city and using neighborly help to achieve that faster. I can play Sim City and get that for a whole lot cheaper than what you want to charge me for diamonds.

 

[Ashrem]

The developers do not pay any attention to these forums. If you feel strongly about this, you should file an in-game support ticket.