Fight or Negotiate

[HJK84]

I'm quite new, I've asked my fellow FS' for opinions, now going to ask here.
I have also, read different guides. Haven't found the one I like

I've looked at many players cities, ones who Fight and the ones who Negotiate.

Both have different set ups;
One has more Armories and AW's that help the cause.
Other has many Manus and AW's for different reasons.

The way I see it, pros/cons of Negotiate;
Faster, less clicking/hassle (pro)
Might take up more space (con) <---- Not sure if having 0 Barracks and 0 Armories compensates having 12 Manus.
Can aid friends much better with Goods (con)
Less ranking points (con)
More Goods = faster research advancement and building (pro)

Fight;
More clicking (con)
Might take up less space (pro) <---- Not sure if having 4-6 Armories and less Manus balance each other.
Less helpful in Goods trades for friends (con)
More rank points (pro)
Less Goods = slower research advancement and building (con)
Doesn't use Goods (pro)

Ugh... I'm sure I'm missing alot more thing, lmao.
This is just a middle ground oversight. The pros and cons might differ due to peoples goals.

Is there a middle ground? I enjoy Fighting making troops, but I also sure do love helping out people (my true calling)
From what I've seen and gathered, best option is taking 1 side, all Fight or all Negotiate.
Future; I want to be able to get as far as possible in chests, 10 being the goal of course. Mostly for my boosted Goods, but if FS needs help, I want to give it to them.
Complete all Events... and this time be wiser about it... instead of wasting so many keys on 2017 Winter Set Buildings that will be obsolete eventually, unless game update changes it up a bit.

Any advice?
I'm very active when awake
And 1-2 times a week I'm out playing D&D (I don't/can't use mobile app to game while away from PC)

Spoiler: D&D Joke

P.S.
The select few in my FS have done alot for me, while rest is active or not, I'm keen on staying and helping it grow, if I can...

All opinions are appreciated and welcomed.

-Thanks, James

 

[Mykan]

There is definitely a middle ground and I think most people sit in that space, I rarely see a full combat town. I disagree with some of your pros and cons and some are very line ball like speed of negotiating verse combat is so negligible if auto-fighting.

The trick with a middle ground approach is to not overbuild your factories. For a free to play player with minimum to low provinces of the requirement you are looking to:

• Build between 40-60 squares of factories for each tier of goods, keeping tier 3 goods closer to 40 squares. 40/40/40 is fine 60/60/40 is common for those who do more tournaments.
• You can do this with 8 workshops (less if quite active)
• Along with around 2/3 armouries. 2 Armies at orcs is fine. shrewdy shrooms and bulwark wonders are also very handy

If you want to be more active in tournaments you may want an extra armoury and some specific military wonders. Combat is the most sustainable way to consistently do a lot in tournaments, you then use your factories to supplement for the harder fights.

If you go a full negotiate town you will want a barracks otherwise you get stuck in the main quest line and then forgo the diamond quests around the guest races, along with millions in coins and supplies and other bonuses. Plus many event quests ask for produce x units.

A full military town would have 4 armouries minimum likely 5/6, they are also capable of working with closer to 20 squares of factory space for each tier. They have less available goods for fellowship but still enough to do what they need. These towns have the potential to be very fast in tree progression due to the ample space for guest races and can farm a lot of KP from tournaments for their wonders or tech tree.

 

[HJK84]

I forgot to mention I'm in Chap. 4, lol
Idk, if that would've made a difference.

So, is your opinion, full military towns can push faster and have more room?
20 squares of factory for each tier is total of 1 factory per tier. Or am I counting it wrong. Current Max LvL factories per tier are each ~20 squares, no?

Finding that middle ground, at what Chapter should I aim to be there?

 

[Mykan]

So, is your opinion, full military towns can push faster and have more room?
20 squares of factory for each tier is total of 1 factory per tier. Or am I counting it wrong. Current Max LvL factories per tier are each ~20 squares, no?

Finding that middle ground, at what Chapter should I aim to be there?

I am experimenting with a full military town but I am aware of 1 or 2 people who are strong military with low factories. The extra space in guest races to build the guest race buildings would be where the speed comes from, along with consistent ability to farm KP from tournaments. Of course you might use that space for wonders instead of entirely guest race.

Most of my towns are variations of middle ground. I did have a full negotiation town but just could not consistently push in tournaments without depleting my goods so it is converting to middle ground as well.

Yes the 20 squares is a minimum, so basically 1 factory of each. The 40 squares of space is a more conservative approach (middle ground), so has a little less military with more factories. If your unsure of your combat ability the 40 squares gives you more ability to cater as your learn. The reasons I say squares not factory numbers is it is comparable across all races/goods/eras, so build as many factories as your need to get that many squares of factory.

You can hit the middle ground approach from where you are (from memory, or be very close to it). This information is just a guide, you need to tweak it (if necessary) to suit you. There was a thread about "how much factory space do you have?" at that time most people had 40/40/40 or 60/60/40, of course some had a lot more than that.

 

[HJK84]

Ah, I only have one city. I've always liked putting all my time into one place instead of many, but that's just me.

I do like the Wonders of later chaps. I might use some some space for them.

When you say, couldn't push tournies with full negotiation town, did you mean, you partook in all tournies?
Also, fighting for each chest every time, does this not deplete military? If you go with the middle ground, I'm guessing once you run out of military, that's when you negotiate.
But in a full military town, is it possible to get depleted of fighters?

Other things that come to mind. Clearing provinces by fighting, I currently have no way of win' a single fight in any of the provinces I've opened. All are Very Hard.
Eventually, is it possible to Fight your way through a Very Hard province, or you just have to Negotiate your way through?

Friend has finished last Chapter, he always Negotiates. All provinces for him are VH, and he was giving me the # of goods to clear vs the time it took to make more goods, which was a lil bit on the negative side. Example 66k goods to clear VH provinces vs creating 60-64k goods. Timeline I think was over 2 days, due to scout.

Sorry I ask alot, it's just, knowledge is power/success;

 

[Mykan]

When you say, couldn't push tournies with full negotiation town, did you mean, you partook in all tournies?

I could not do as many provinces/rounds as I wanted every week. My towns with some military could do more provinces and more rounds every week, thus more rewards.

Also, fighting for each chest every time, does this not deplete military? If you go with the middle ground, I'm guessing once you run out of military, that's when you negotiate.
But in a full military town, is it possible to get depleted of fighters?

You can always deplete your military or goods. You have to live within your means or you run out. My more military towns still run out of troops each week, it is just they replace them quicker and thus can do more tournaments each week. The faster they replace troops the more tournament rewards I can chase.

Troops only cost supplies and are easy to replace and the losses are cheaper than the cost of coins/supplies of cater/negotiate. If you do tournaments every week you are always limited by your production whether it is factories or military.

Other things that come to mind. Clearing provinces by fighting, I currently have no way of win' a single fight in any of the provinces I've opened. All are Very Hard.
Eventually, is it possible to Fight your way through a Very Hard province, or you just have to Negotiate your way through?

This is quite complex as it depends so much on a person and their strategy. Combat on the provincial map gets easier every chapter that you play. The effect of advanced scouts and the ever increasing size of a "ring" allows you to do more and more provinces beyond the minimum. There is however a moving line that you can cross that makes provincial combat hard/impossible. Because that line moves you can cross it in chapter 5 or chapter 11 and it is in a completely different spot. You can always wait and the line eventually moves out further than where you are. You need to decide on the pros/cons of scouting strategies.

As you are in chapter 4 you are at the point of starting to emerge out of the most difficult provincial combats in the game. If you are near minimum province exploration you should be able to start combating by the end of that chapter. If you have not done all optional squad size techs up to that point, or scouted more than the minimum than it will take longer to be able to combat in provinces. A lot of people misunderstand the challenges and effects of scouting and squad sizes at that chapter and then give advice based on that misunderstanding. Once you enter chapter 5 you might be able to start skipping optional squad size techs if desired, pros and cons to this too.

 

[HJK84]

I see, interesting indeed, Ty.

Going to reconfigure my city, once I balance out my Goods. So I can build more Military.
I also realized that I'm running out of Relics to create MM's, cause I have LvL 5 MA. Partaking in Tournies, should help with this, so I can keep boosting MA's out. And use them more often, due to having less factories.

Realizing all this, those dang Wonders, lol. There's so many good ones, specially for very active players like myself.
I have read your diagrams about some of them (quite sure it was your posts)
There's a few that I doubt I'd need. Other I want. But I will unlock all with Avatars/Icons, cause I like such things

As for provinces... I guess I overdid it. I've opened so many provinces, I can unlock Chapt 6 Box, but I'm still in Chapt 4.
I only clear them, when I'm in urgent need of space, which is usually after I start a new Chapt. This is where my FS helps me out, much love to them

Anything else you'd like to add, I'm open to suggestions as you can see. Thanks.

 

[Mykan]

There's a few that I doubt I'd need. Other I want. But I will unlock all with Avatars/Icons, cause I like such things .

Most wonders are beneficial even at level 1, but you need to prioritise your space, aesthetics, etc. As for those with portraits my understanding is that you can delete the wonder and keep the portrait if you do not want the wonder.

 

[HJK84]

Such a shame. Devoted Kp, time, and so on, to try this fighting ordeal.
Round 2, so many that I couldn't win via auto but manual I could. Due to obstacles, kept going in to check the layout, then surrender to try different combinations for auto's, none worked. Had to do manual.
Others, I flat out couldn't even manual.

I can say, after trying it out, it's not for me.
I rather be clicking my WS' every 5mins. to make supplies, then to manually fight for even longer than the time it takes to make, beverages.
Saddened I am, I had high hopes

Thanks for the help though, I appreciate it.

 

[Mykan]

This is one of the easier tournaments. You should be able to load in 5 archers and win most fights in the first 2 rounds. Granted some fights you will suffer a lot cause the archers will be wrong but they will win you plenty of fights. The AI struggles with more than 2 unit types so you need to limit what you give it.

Have you looked at the combat 101 thread?

 

[HJK84]

If the AI struggles with more than 2 units types, why should I limit what I put on the field? Putting more different types would be advantageous, no?
Most of the 2nd round, I had 3-4 types. Sometimes 2.

Idk if I've read that thread. I've read many.

 

[Mykan]

If the AI struggles with more than 2 units types, why should I limit what I put on the field? Putting more different types would be advantageous, no?
Most of the 2nd round, I had 3-4 types. Sometimes 2.

Idk if I've read that thread. I've read many.

Its just an observation with the auto-fight AI. I have found it does better if I limit the different unit types (not units within a type) to 2. If I go more than this it seems to lose more often or in higher volume.

If you enemy consist of almost entirely 1 unit type your best bet is to put in 5 of the best troop to handle that unit type. You can often ignore the 1 or 2 odd units who are different. For example if there was 6 heavy melee, 1 mage and 1 light melee you could ignore the light melee and mage and put in 5 light range or 5 mages whichever you prefer. 2/3 units outside the "norm" for the fight are normally safe to ignore when selecting troops, it is only in the later rounds that you sometimes need to factor them in and this can vary by tournament.

The "combat 101" is just the absolute basics to get people started. It was designed for people who wanted some ability to combat without getting stuck in all the strategy. It is really a foundation point to build more a complex strategy on once a person is comfortable with combat.

 

[HJK84]

Well, really odd... But round 3 went much better, I did all auto, but 1 by mistake, lol Mostly used, 1 type.
Left 1 province out of the 12 I have unlocked. I didn't do that 1, cause I didn't need the winnings and round 4's (Hunting mostly for the Kp). Plus FS isn't really active and into tournies, which is fine by me.
Not sure how much farther I can go. Due to the training time being still kind of slow, only normal though I figure cause of my time here.

Thanks, again though, brought back some hope to a unpleasant day

e - Forgot to mention, some I had to cater, cause squads were higher than mine and I didn't feel like losing via manual also after 3 autos. Maybe ~ 2 provinces

 

[SoggyShorts]

I didn't feel like losing via manual also after 3 autos.

I would not recommend trying auto on the same encounter more than once. The random damage doesn't make that big of a difference, so unless you killed 95%+ of the enemy the first time, cater it or switch to manual immediately- If you used the right troops and lost, it's probably a terrain issue(like a bottleneck) and your troops will be just as dumb on the second,third, and 50th try as they were on the first.

 

[HJK84]

I would not recommend trying auto on the same encounter more than once. The random damage doesn't make that big of a difference, so unless you killed 95%+ of the enemy the first time, cater it or switch to manual immediately- If you used the right troops and lost, it's probably a terrain issue(like a bottleneck) and your troops will be just as dumb on the second,third, and 50th try as they were on the first.

Oh I see. I don't recall if it killed 95%+, I quite sure the 1st try did, then when I changed the squads, the loss was greater, lol
I'll keep that 95%+ and 1 auto idea in mind for future.

Thanks.

 

[HJK84]

I was only allowed 5 rounds. How is this determined, I can tell it's note connected to the chapters?
I was able to auto just a few lower lvl provinces in rnd 5. The rest I lost.
Some squads overwhelmed me. Others had less total troops but more squads, couldn't win. I didn't try manual though.
Then I ran out of Steel to cater, missed out on 11 Kp, I cleared the ones with runes 1st

Made ~ 150kp during the tournament. Minus the 5 day Kp, so maybe ~ 100. It's not bad Imo. Might of even made more... can't recall.

 

[Ashrem]

I was only allowed 5 rounds.

You have to have completed provinces of the right type. If you were only allowed five, it's because you only finished five steel provinces.

 

[HJK84]

You have to have completed provinces of the right type. If you were only allowed five, it's because you only finished five steel provinces.

Either I misspoke or misunderstood.
I completed 12, each had 5 levels/rounds.

I'm guessing I had 12 open and completed Steel. Which makes sense, boosted in Steel, I know I had completed many provinces.

 

[samidodamage]

Either I misspoke or misunderstood.
I completed 12, each had 5 levels/rounds.

I'm guessing I had 12 open and completed Steel. Which makes sense, boosted in Steel, I know I had completed many provinces.

After you complete a round in a tournament province, it takes 16 hours for that province to reset to the next round. There are 5 days in a tournament. So, while it's possible to do 6 rounds in a province, you have to work that reset time out to get the 6th round to open before the end of the tournament without using instants and/or diamonds to speed it up.

 

[Ashrem]

Either I misspoke or misunderstood.
I completed 12, each had 5 levels/rounds.

The rounds are based on time. Because they are 16 hours apart, and there are only 5 days, the only way to complete 6 is by doing two rounds in one day. Unless you are up in the wee hours, it has to be either Wednesday, or thursday, with one round early in the morning and another late in the evening