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    Your Elvenar Team

Feedback Quick and Dirty Summary of Ancient Wonder Changes

Henroo

Oh Wise One
Something amusing occurred to me rather belatedly. Over time the developers have gradually removed any significance of your actual Squad Size number from combat. The game claims your Squad Size "allows you to fight with larger armies, making fights easier" but for a while this has been no longer the case since they disassociated the Tournament and Spire from Squad Size entirely. Your Squad Size is basically ignored in almost all combat now. Yet recently they changed the Ancient Wonders to mostly scale based on your Squad Size. So now your Squad Size went from being useful for combat to...being useful for everything BUT combat. :D
It does still matter for world map fights. But other than that, yes. Squad size is now much more important for how ancient wonders work. And the flip side of this is that before the update there were multiple AWs which depended on how many cleared map provinces you had. Now I don't think there is a single wonder which still uses cleared map provinces. I think the only value now in having a lot of cleared map provinces is that it will boost how many seeds the trader produces.
 

Pheryll

Set Designer
I think the only value now in having a lot of cleared map provinces is that it will boost how many seeds the trader produces.
Which, like the panda feeding effect (also based on completed provinces), will dwindle with respect to event buildings as the chapters progress. So unurium looks like it will be what the trader is set to as we approach chapter 30 unless some new option comes about.
 

Dominionofgod

Thinker of Ideas
well.. im down to just one (of 9) aw's left to donate to. The rest are all ready for upgrade, or a few shards short of ready to upgrade. Soon as that is full, im not sure what to do..

Option 1: I can use all the catalysts and frags iv stored up over the last so many years for one round of upgrades and then ill zero out on those resources. The fact that a multi year stash can only do one round of ~9 upgrades before being completely depleted means that ill fill those aw's to full long before i even get enough catalysts and frags to upgrade a single aw again. So ill basically be locked out of my aw's . It would be inevitable to reach a point of all aw's full and no mets to upgrades.
No catalysts and frags would also mean no more crafting. That means no more pet foods, supply instants, or military buildings. That means its only a matter of time until i run out of pet foods and then evolving buildings become half useless. No more military boost buildings or fire phoenix (pet food) (or supplies to retrain) mean no more tourney and spire. Or at the very least, a very small small amount of it.
So.. : no aw's, no crafting, no military, no tourney, no spire... .. ... so... why would i want to stick around here in this game?

Option 2: upgrade one aw at a time, fill it, upgrade, fill etc. Basically a slow steady decline until i reach the results of option 1. Just takes longer.

Option 3: skip upgrading aw's. : Get locked out of aw's portion of the game, get the bonuses i already have, and that will be that for the rest of the game. Just sitting there and hoping that inno one day does something to fix.. stick that.. help.. with this bs issue. Ill also be screwed out of any story-line events and there rewards the moment they add a 'donate x kp to your own aw' quest with no 'or' option. - Up side; id at least have my current catalysts for crafting and by extension, military.

Option 4: disenchant my entire inventory for a few extra catalysts ad frags. Doesnt solve the problem, only extends the time line until it crashes. But everything iv spent years working to get, gone... screw that. Ill quit before doing that.

Option 5: Build a cheap lvl 1 aw that i dont already have. Place it, fill it when a 'donate kp' quests shows up only, so i dont get screwed outta that. When its full, sell it off. Rebuild it. Repeat over and over. Sadly, the only plausible method i see of getting around the 'donate kp to your own aw' issue thats going to happen in the near future. Probably the longest lasting band-aid. But it only lasts until you run outa shards to build it with.

Every single option i see sucks beyond words. And even more unnerving is how many players i know will be in a position worse them myself. - Yes, there are those in a better position then myself. For example; Those that were large enough and smart enough to take advantage of the moonstone library set when it was available for mass taking. (Now its limited to one). Sadly i was not one of the ppl large enough and smart enough to take advantage of that back then. - I do however do the full spire every week for years now, and craft catalysts spells in the Magic acadamey 24/7. I also stock pile the catalysts and frags that i dont use in crafting. I dont jsut waste them off on something. I save em up. For years. And despite that, im still in this horrible situation of the stock pile could be gone in one fell swoop. - But for all the players that arnt able to do a full spire, dont have a stock pile, maybe dont have enough relics to make catalysts 24/7.... the level of screwed over for them is even worse. I may be getting screwed over and wondering how to proceede... but those players basically wont ever be able to get started... its really sad.

I can deal with the aw changes and reballancing changes.. I can alter and adjust from that.. But this upgrade cost change is going to break the game if left as is. And the truly terrifying part... is that inno cant be THAT inept. They had to realize the problems this would create. And they chose to do it anyway. ... The future here is looking incredibly bleak.
Every time i donate to an aw (aw chain threads) i feel a little bad... and thats quite sad. Cause i know every donation is one step closer to the doom. that will befall me when i have no aw's left to donate to...
 

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
Something amusing occurred to me rather belatedly. Over time the developers have gradually removed any significance of your actual Squad Size number from combat. The game claims your Squad Size "allows you to fight with larger armies, making fights easier" but for a while this has been no longer the case since they disassociated the Tournament and Spire from Squad Size entirely. Your Squad Size is basically ignored in almost all combat now.
I bolded the quote myself, but as long as I've been playing....
old/new tech tree, old/new formulas, the amount of troops
I bring to a fight is a % of my listed SS. There is 100% falsehood
that it makes fighting easier, all it does is increase the # of troop
losses per fight, necessatating the need for more troop production
and all the infrastructure that goes along with that.

SS was never meant to be the anchor metric in AWs, now
because of TheCauldron and AW chgs, there's nothing left
"optional" about optional researches like SS+.
 

Pheryll

Set Designer
I bolded the quote myself, but as long as I've been playing....
old/new tech tree, old/new formulas, the amount of troops
I bring to a fight is a % of my listed SS.

And this is disagreed with by MinMax and the several testers he had to calculate what the spire/tourney squad size was actually based on. The new formula, which Inno claimed was no longer based on SS researches, was found to not have SS researches as a variable, and at the time there were many players who submitted data with all SS optional researches skipped.
 

Pheryll

Set Designer
I said....

Min Max was right, long ago... he is no longer right.
When I was force mirgrated I tested this..... certainly
tourn fights are based on your listed SS.

1000%, bringing more to the fight doesn't make it easier.
If changes are being made to the formula, bear in mind that your test could have easily corresponded to a time when the formula was changed.
 

iamthouth

Tetris Master
This will become a problem. Need to ensure we hold back Spell Fragments to be able to craft Vision Vapor being end of Ch21 with all research completed.
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Lelanya

Scroll-Keeper, Keys to the Gems
There are two of those quests. But, they are not scaling up as quickly as in the past, and there are a lot less of them.
 

iamthouth

Tetris Master
Yes, there are a six quests in the upcoming event which requests Vision Vapor; two standalone must do (52+66), and two more if all research already done (8+28), and two with another option to solve encounters (18) or province (47).
 

Deborah M

Oh Wise One
I have not been playing much lately so I haven't been checking the forum. That is a combination of unhappy changes to the game and getting ready to move after 21 years in our current home.

That being said, the AW changes are definitely confusing to have them change after all these years. I am not thrilled about the added costs to level up my AW that are not at level 35. On the other hand, I have to say that I appreciate receiving more credit for the effort, expense, space and time I have spent leveling up the AWs I have decided to keep after a couple of times when difficult decisions had to be made. I was actually angry about the change, but I was completely stunned to see that I was given greater ranking points from my AW due to the change. I had stopped even looking at the standings for ranking points because with very little effort a couple of cities simply built staggering numbers of Armories to pass long-term, diamond spending, top ranking players. I think that is very disheartening! I would never destroy my city that way. I know ranking is considered unimportant here on the forum but in my 8+ years I have seen and known many players who definitely value ranking. It is simply one aspect of the game that many players do value, even per prior moderator comments.

I do have a couple of alts who went negative for culture. One is fairly large and lost big time. The thing is that they will be able to rebalance culture fairly easily. It isn't like we didn't go through this before with the great event building rebalancing :rolleyes:

Adding: I love the fact that even though I had already put away factories that I don't need right now and was able to put out all of my favorite premium culture items that were stored, thus making my city prettier IMO, I am back up to #2 top ranking. Beats the heck out of the ugly Armory heavy cities I was seeing IMO! :cool: For that reason, I guess I really don't mind the tradeoff.
 
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Dukester69

Member
Well, since the upgrade, I have observed a lot of players leaving the game and/or plan on leaving. I'm seeing a lot more AWs in ruin stage waiting to have what it takes just to upgrade. I personally will play until I can't. I would occasionally spend money for diamonds, but now, I will NOT spend a dime because it seems like they are forcing us to spend money just to upgrade AWs. So, I guess I'm in the category of leaving this game in the future. Unless they make another change!
 

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
Hey Inno ....

There is NO reason for BS costs just to place a AW.
Certainly not 5x RRs compared to CCs .... Atleast you
could let us place a lvl-1 AW for just the rune cost
and perhaps some coins/tools/basic resources.....
 

theuser

New Member
FWIW I have noticed that selling expired building gives 1 or 2 Royal Restoration each.
I have seen:
2 RR for Dwarven armor, Ferriswheel Galore, Trading Station.
1 RR for Queens Idol, LMM, UUU, Cryomana.

The expiring military buildings being sellable for RR opens a new path to crafting RRs from only frags and catalysts.
 

Yavimaya

Scroll-Keeper
I also think they will have to add spell fragments to more buildings. Either evolving buildings or event buildings. I'd be ok with limiting Moonstone Library to one still, but we do need more of them from somewhere.
Or adding RRs as instants in the game. Like 1,3, and 5. Same with Spell Frags. They could be rewards for doing chapter and events quests and could also add them to more buildings like you said.
 

Yavimaya

Scroll-Keeper
FWIW I have noticed that selling expired building gives 1 or 2 Royal Restoration each.
I have seen:
2 RR for Dwarven armor, Ferriswheel Galore, Trading Station.
1 RR for Queens Idol, LMM, UUU, Cryomana.

The expiring military buildings being sellable for RR opens a new path to crafting RRs from only frags and catalysts.
Also, selling placed Magic Residences and Magic Workshops give RRs now.
 

EarthbornIcarus

Active Member
Players in my fs want to know- is there any chart out there that shows what you get back when you sell buildings? This is for CC spells. This may be a handy chart to have.
 
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