Feedback Quick and Dirty Summary of Ancient Wonder Changes

[Amanirenas]

New thought - The new rules mean players that finish the last chapter will leave. Many of those players buy or did buy lots of diamonds. But what does a player do buried in KPs, Shards and KP instants do in the game? Wait for a build up of Spell Fragments? I guess they could convert the KP instants into spell fragments, but after that, what is a player to do?

Honestly, I expect a new world were most AWs are filled with KPs for the top players and the members in their fellowship. That dynamic makes many of those players fellows locked from recieving any more KPs. The top players have literally NOTHING to do with their KPs . Personally, I gain more than 1,000 KPs a week. When I run out of Spell fragments and RRs:

• What can I do with the KPs?
• What is my motivation to play?
• What can I do?

I suspect my answer is to quit Perhaps that is what Inno wants the top players to do - makes new chapters irrelevant as no one plays after they complete the last chapter. Perhaps they think we might move on to Forge of Heros or a different Inno game. Perhaps some will, but not this generation leaving Elvenar. Inno's redesign that destroyed their plans for the game (and enjoyment) together with how they ignored the players pleads will never be forgotten.

Agreed. How do I convince my early-chapter and less active players to continue playing (or any of them, for that matter)? Over the years, there have been lots of changes, some of them more memorable because of their distaste. FS members in both of my worlds are confused and disgruntled. No one is looking forward to the next FA (our favorite part of the game!) Now is not a good time to be an Archmage. If Inno wants to make this a successful business, it would be smart of them to let us at street-level know how to help.

 

[crackie]

HAHAHAHAHA. "The game is working as intended. We're sorry about that."

I mean...that just sums it up.

 

[Dukester69]

I'm very thankful I decided not to build any culture AW buildings. After reading a level 30 Thrones only gives 1795 culture. That really sucks and I feel really bad for the players that put in all that time and/or money. I would be pissed too. Hell, I'm only in chapter 13 and have a 5x5 building that gives me 25K culture (50K when aided). And the cost to upgrade an AW is crazy. Just because there is an inflation in the real world, doesn't mean we need one here. As my AWs stack up because I can't afford the upgrade, only means my days are numbered playing this game. Hope that day never comes. Would be nice if inno would take ownership of this failure and fix it.

 

[Dominionofgod]

I'm very thankful I decided not to build any culture AW buildings. After reading a level 30 Thrones only gives 1795 culture.

Its possible it might scale up better for later game players. The bonus is based on ranking points. If higher chapters have an exponentially higher ranking points as opposed to linear, then it might become worth it later on. My fs mate just said his lvl 20 thrones gives him 5589 culture. Where as my lvl 30 only gives me 1759 0.o But hes higher chapter then me.

 

[Pheryll]

Its possible it might scale up better for later game players. The bonus is based on ranking points. If higher chapters have an exponentially higher ranking points as opposed to linear, then it might become worth it later on. My fs mate just said his lvl 20 thrones gives him 5589 culture. Where as my lvl 30 only gives me 1759 0.o But hes higher chapter then me.

Let's just say that ranking points are proportional to required culture (which is what some other wonder benefits use). Thrones additionally has a multiplier for the number of wonder levels (which at higher chapters ends up being close to a linear multiplier roughly proportional to chapter). Because of the extra linear term, the thrones would get better with respect to culture buildings as the chapters progressed.

 

[Dominionofgod]

Let's just say that ranking points are proportional to required culture (which is what some other wonder benefits use). Thrones additionally has a multiplier for the number of wonder levels (which at higher chapters ends up being close to a linear multiplier roughly proportional to chapter). Because of the extra linear term, the thrones would get better with respect to culture buildings as the chapters progressed.

Even if its true that this will become more beneficial in later chapters... that doesnt excuses screwing it over at low and mid chapters. I have a LEVEL 30 THRONES that gives that gives 1759 cult (6x4)... i can build a weeping willow for 3500 cult right now. The bottom of the line basic culture building. Double that of the lvl 30 aw power! There is just no way in which that makes any sense. And there is no way that is acceptable.

[MOD NOTE] Please see my message to you so we can figure this out

 

[BrinDarby]

most ppl that lost out and have to redo everything now,
might as well wait for CH 11-15 then CH 16-21 chgs...
because you know they're a comm'n, and if they are
anything like the CH 1-5, 6-10 chgs you might as well
wait so ya know how to rebuild stuff correctly.

 

[Astram]

most ppl that lost out and have to redo everything now,
might as well wait for CH 11-15 then CH 16-21 chgs...
because you know they're a comm'n, and if they are
anything like the CH 1-5, 6-10 chgs you might as well
wait so ya know how to rebuild stuff correctly.

That statement may be true for a few but I have heard from many that while a pain it did not require a rebuild. Now the players with 60 Armories (as an example) that were hurt are stuck, yes but that's the breaks for playing on the extreme edge. Again with "the sky is falling" statements?

 

[BrinDarby]

"the sky is falling"

no not that at all, a word of caution

 

[Dukester69]

That statement may be true for a few but I have heard from many that while a pain it did not require a rebuild. Now the players with 60 Armories (as an example) that were hurt are stuck, yes but that's the breaks for playing on the extreme edge. Again with "the sky is falling" statements?

"the sky is falling" ????

Just for inno, as players already started dropping with more to come. Very slow death.

 

[Dominionofgod]

Again with "the sky is falling" statements?

No, thats me this time. But what iv said isnt just pointless complaining. I laid out in previous posts across this thread exactly how it would unfold.

 

[Kraken52]

No one could condone what has been done to the Thrones AW. Luckily I never built one but feel really sorry for those who did. Aside from this travesty, I suppose we can adjust to most of the other changes to AW's. The Biggest Problem created here is the lack of resources to upgrade AW's, especially Spell Fragments!
INNO- Where the F do we get them from? and don't say to defrag our inventories, because when that supply is depleted, what do we do?????

This is my first post in a long time[maybe ever] and having read all 12 pages of this thread, I find it hard to disagree with practically anything that's been posted, Moderators comments aside. I have finished Ch21,not sure if I will be around for C22. Will there even be one?

 

[Dominionofgod]

how sad... :'(
I went to do the final round of tourney. I was a little late and my phoenix feeding effect wore off. There wa only 15min~ left on tourney counter. We had already reached 10 chests as a fs. ... ... I thought about the worth of using a pet food and running my last round of tourney, as i normally would do. But then i remembered how useless the kp and aw instants are right now. With being unable, or soon to be unable, to upgrade aw's because of this horrible update... there was not only no incentive to get kp or aw instants as a reward, but i actively didnt want to get them. Every kp i get is one step closer to not having any aws left to put kp in. One step closer to being locked out of that. One step closer to being screwed over on 'insert x kp into your aw' quests and thereby the event as a whole....

I chose against doing the last round. I purposely had to make the long term decision to avoid doing tourney and getting rewards in order to try and do what little i can to help my city survive.... That is so far beyond sad... :'(

 

[TimeMachine]

I went to do the final round of tourney. I was a little late and my phoenix feeding effect wore off. There wa only 15min~ left on tourney counter. We had already reached 10 chests as a fs. ... ... I thought about the worth of using a pet food and running my last round of tourney, as i normally would do. But then i remembered how useless the kp and aw instants are right now.

I really understand what you mean but is it really like that?

I am one of those players who are climbing up the spire nearly every week plus playing 10 or more chests in tourney.
Of course this is just an example of my "Chapter 17-City", playing for three years now.

Let's take a look at my fragments and Combining Catalysts:

Spoiler

and now we take a look at my spell inventory:

Spoiler

each of the "10% Portal Profits" gives 800 spell fragments, if i would disentchant all of them right now that would be over 160K spell fragments.

And since I've heard of them new changes, I like to tidy up my summonings and place some I call it "spell-fragment-parks" where I can.
To me it feels a little like collecting orcs from Orc Nests.

Spoiler

4800 spell fragments every 48h hours.

Ok and now we'll take a look at them probably worthless KPs and runes:

Spoiler

As far as I am concerned, I wouldn't be able to upgrade my next wonder because I ain't got not enough "worthless" KPs atm.

Elvenar to me was always about steadily evolving and rearranging my city adjusted to changing requierments.
This what makes the game interesting to me! Rearranging my cities was and is always my greatest fun in Elvenar.

I really understand that frustration about the new changes but I guess that there are lots of possibilities to get fragments and CCs and hopefully @InnoGames is going to develop some more (like the Potionmakers Pedestal for example) for them new humans and elves who will hardly have the time to save up lots of that stuff while being accelerated forced throug the new tech-tree.

My guess is that @InnoGames wants to invite more humans and elves to hit the spire harder and/or more often and maybe waste some of their diamonds, which is ok for me.
Spire isn't easy but one can learn it. It took me about a year to learn how to carter succesfully and in the meantime I learned how to mainly fight the spire succesfully with no great losses.

Another thing, in my opinon, is that @InnoGames is trying to put a little more pressure on the research-tree of"parked cities"",by the way is @Moho still using this forum, I am missing him a little.
If one cannot get rid of KP because AWs are all full, she or he will maybe decide to finish the next research, whatever it takes!

What I would like to say is that it seems like @InnoGames wants us to keep moving with and in our cities.
I know how good it feels to play a temporaly perfect City-Set-Up. It is always a big overcoming to change anything then.
But without this aspect of the game Elvenar would be very boring, wouldn't it?

And every time when something is missing to finish a research or whatever - I recognize what a good patience-trainer Elvenar is!

 

[Dominionofgod]

I really understand what you mean but is it really like that?

Yes.
The end.

I am one of those players who are climbing up the spire nearly every week plus playing 10 or more chests in tourney.
Of course this is just an example of my "Chapter 17-City", playing for three years now.

Let's take a look at my fragments and Combining Catalysts:

Thats certainly an impressive amount. And im all for hearing suggestions of how to make more of each... besides disenchanting.
I too do the full spire every week and close to 3k points in tourney. Which is not bad imo for being at the start of wood elves (ch9)
I have about 300k frags and 300 catalysts. And thats with several years of storing them up. Only using them for crafting, nothing else. So i mean it when i say im all for hearing real ways to get more.

4800 spell fragments every 24h hours.

what building is that? Im guessing the value would be lower at my chapter compared to yours, but still, it has my attention'

Ok and now we'll take a look at them probably worthless KPs and runes:

As far as I am concerned, I wouldn't be able to upgrade my next wonder because I ain't got not enough "worthless" KPs atm.

I envy that problem lol. It is far better then the other side of the coin.
I have 9 aw's placed atm. 8 are ready for upgrade. The last one is just a hair short of being ready to upgrade. And as i mentioned in the last post, im actively trying to slow it down so i can stretch this crap out.
The cost to upgrade these 9 aw's ONE single time each, would be about 250k frag and 250 catalysts.
So that would take 83% of my entire stockpile that took me YEARS to accumulate. Leaving me with about 50 left. That would be at best, 2 upgrades worth if i use my lowest level aw's. At that point i would be out of cats and frags completely.
No frags and cats, means no crafting. No crafting (pet food, military buildings) means no more feeding effects and no more fighting tourney or spire. No more tourney or spire means no rewards, no cats, no frags, and me screwing my fs over in getting 10 chests. And id be locked out of aw since i cant upgrade... so basically... id be locked out of most of the game... (And partial loss of cauldron.)
Now maybe some might call me an extremist... but i think an update that could lead a player to not being able to do most of the game.... is a HORRIBLE update.

I would also add one other thing cause itll probably be a thought that comes up. And it would not take me long to fill that many aw's after upgrade if i truly wanted to. Six of my nine aw's are lvl 30. The other three are 15, 18, and 21. I finished all that with regular kp. I stockpiled my awkp instants. Since i was parked for a bit, i didnt want to cap out all my aw and have no place for my normal kp. So i just saved the instants. (I never foresaw this horrible upgrade change....) I could have easily finished them off before the update if i wanted to. If i realized the horror of this update before hand, i would have... - Granted, again, this is after a few years.

Considering all that... i can understand why inno may have thought it a good idea to slow down the speed at which everyone levels aw... but they did it in the worst way possible. Instead of limiting the actual awkp that fills them... they left that the same and jsut changed the upgrade materials to something thats impossible to keep up with. And worse, will effect players ability to participate in most of the game features.

So as it stands now... without a massive change away from that horrible update.. or a massive increase in ways to obtain cats and frags... its only a matter of time until im screwed. So getting back to your first question:

I really understand what you mean but is it really like that?

Yes.
The end.

 

[Dominionofgod]

What I would like to say is that it seems like @InnoGames wants us to keep moving with and in our cities.
I know how good it feels to play a temporaly perfect City-Set-Up. It is always a big overcoming to change anything then.
But without this aspect of the game Elvenar would be very boring, wouldn't it?

i didnt park because it was some grand glorious idea. I did it because it was an opportune time. I had just started wood elves where i would need to replace me culture buildings with mana buildings. So before doing that, i figured id get rid of all my culture buildings and replace them with all my expiring buildings. Had a lot saved up. Mine as well use em all now and do it before i need the mana buildings. - Trouble with that plan was my medical issue made it take a hole lot longer then it should have.

 

[Henroo]

That statement may be true for a few but I have heard from many that while a pain it did not require a rebuild. Now the players with 60 Armories (as an example) that were hurt are stuck, yes but that's the breaks for playing on the extreme edge. Again with "the sky is falling" statements?

I mostly agree with everything you say. The update did not hurt MY cities much at all. However: I think you are wrong by denigrating players who had massive numbers of armories in their cities. You say they were "playing on the extreme edge." It was nothing like that. These players were pursuing a logical and calculated strategy to maximize their city score. They had lot of effort, thought, and consideration invested in their cities. Everything they were doing was perfectly OK with the rules of the game. And then: with no reason and with very little warning, Inno decided to fundamentally change the way many AWs worked. This suddenly and violently pulled the rug out from under this play strategy. Basically: for any player who was attempting to maximize their city score, the game they were playing pre-update no longer exists.

 

[BrinDarby]

What I would like to say is that it seems like @InnoGames wants us to keep moving with and in our cities.

Between the CH chgs and the AW chgs, they have slowed that
very "progression" , by thier actions.

in my opinon, is that @InnoGames is trying to put a little more pressure on the research-tree of"parked cities""

Then you solve the problem of parked cities, otherwise
you hurt everyone comming after them.

Elvenar would be very boring, wouldn't it?

Its also boring constantly taking 1 step fwd and 3 steps back.

and maybe waste some of their diamonds

Not only did Inno create this problem, but have you seen how
many diamonds are need'd just for expansions late in the game
when buying them is the only way to get them ?? We're talking
a huge amount, This is why the F2P player has to buildup thier
diamonds, just for 1 world to finish the game.

Inno refuses to sell all the little menushia we all have said we'd
pay diamonds for, but stuff that which too many players have
spent hundreds of dollars for get invalidated.... creates the
very environment where less and less ppl pay $$$ or quit.

Ask the "SharkTank" ppl, you cannot ignore customer aquisition
costs, and you certainly don't then alienate the customers you
spent $$$ to attract to your product.

 

[BrinDarby]

It was nothing like that. These players were pursuing a logical and calculated strategy to maximize their city score. They had lot of effort, thought, and consideration invested in their cities. Everything they were doing was perfectly OK with the rules of the game.

1 by 1 , all the playstyles Inno hates, is being mitigated
by game changes, thus alienating the playerbase. 1st
on that list seems to be the "casual" playstyle and 2nd
is most certainly the F2P playstyle.

 

[TimeMachine]

4800 spell fragments every 24h hours.

what building is that? Im guessing the value would be lower at my chapter compared to yours, but still, it has my attention'

As you can see in the spoiler it is 8x Trading Station.

One Trading Station delivers 1x 10% Portal Profit every 48 hours, since it is Dwarven-Chapter or a higher chapter.
So I gain 8x 10% Portal Profit per 48h.

When I disentchant them I get 800 spell fragments for each. 8x 800 spell fragments /48h makes 6400 spell fragments per 48h.

Edit: The Trading stations expire after 50 days, so if you win one in spire and decide to disenchant all the Portal Profits it delivers 20K of spell fragments spread over 50 days.

Edit: Even after correcting my mistake, as far as spell fragments are concerned the Trading Station is the new "Jackpot" in spire.

Big Thanks to @Glandeh for correcting me!