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[DeletedUser3297]

Took me a while to realize the effect of this update. There may not be a game to play for anyone much longer.

 

[DeletedUser1901]

Great expression of a different point of view Kaylee!

 

[DeletedUser2870]

I partly agree. But the battle mechanics are a definite part of the gamedesign. And where your case af the number of hourly KP vs that from unlocked provinces in itself is correct, you totally forget about the tournament.
Personally, I think they totally messed up the game with the new battle-mechanics. Yes, it probably IS possible to go through the game without fighting. But in that case, why would one even want to build a barracks and armories? Not to mention the STILL completely useless mercenary camp?
Or research squad-size increasements?
In all aspects, it is obvious that fighting was to be an integral part of the game. By making that part all but impossible they have taken away a part of the game that many people relied on.
Once again, a very, very badly thought-out action

 

[DeletedUser3942]

I fully agree to what you say @kayleegrrl - I never focused on fighting in the first place and was quite successful with building my city so far.
When I fight I win some and I lose some - like in real life you never always win, right?

When I first read that the new battle system will be coming and what the impacts might be I began to read every info I could get my eyes on to learn how to adjust. The more so when I realised despite all the negative feedback in beta forum the devs would bring on the changes to the live servers anyway. Now I am focusing on building my squads and learn the new fighting system in tournaments, because those are the easier ones - for me.

Do I like the new battle system? NO. Do I still like the game? YES.
So I try to adjust and it is in no ways easy but this is also part of the game: being able to find ways to adjust. Adjust to limited space given, adjust to changes that are thrown at me while playing and having a different plan. Look at changes, understand, adjust plan, play. I try not to focus on what I do not like but rather than how I can understand new circumstances and use it to play and progress further...

I know this might not work for everyone but it is my way maybe it works better for me because I never focused too much on fighting anyway...
There is so much information already out there about the new system, use it (here for example: https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index....and-observations-share-yours.4297/#post-27790) and things will get better again, maybe not as you were used to have it before but not as bad as they seem right now.



P.S. no I am not related to INNO in any way. I am just a girl who has been playing games like this for the better part of her life (...wow now I feel old)

 

[DeletedUser3297]

I partly agree. But you totally forget about the tournament.

No, I left the tournament out of my topic because it is not directly related to the core of the game. Tournaments do not unlock chapter chests nor do they gain expansions. The amount of KP varies greatly on a players motives for competing in the tournament, some provinces give more KP and relics than others, some give none at all. However, with the new battle design, tournament fighting has become much easier. While I agree that tournaments are essential to the game, i.e. gaining relics for boosts and to run the MA, they are not related to the research tree at all. Anything received from fighting in the tournaments is just an added bonus to the game

 

[DeletedUser2870]

No, I left the tournament out of my topic because it is not directly related to the core of the game. Tournaments do not unlock chapter chests nor do they gain expansions. The amount of KP varies greatly on a players motives for competing in the tournament, some provinces give more KP and relics than others, some give none at all. However, with the new battle design, tournament fighting has become much easier. While I agree that tournaments are essential to the game, i.e. gaining relics for boosts and to run the MA, they are not related to the research tree at all. Anything received from fighting in the tournaments is just an added bonus to the game

Sorry, but not related to the core of the game? The touneys have been added later as an additional source for KP's and relics because with scouting taking over 2 days there is no serious way one can advance in any way without them.
And much easier? I have just spent a whole afternoon and evening trying lots of new combinations, but have given up. Fighting is just about impossible. Not only does the opposing side now by definition seem to have more squads, the number of troops/squad also is way beyond mine. Where I used to play tourneys mainly by fighting I now just cater a few, since the fights are no longer possible.
And the fights in the provinces are even worse than the tourneys....but even allowing the idea that the tourneys are not core...

FIGHTING is a definite part of the game and most definitely a core part too.
-The barracks are there only to create units to fight with
- the armories are there to make it possible to create more troops per order
- the tech tree has different sorts of troops AND upgrades for troops to be researched
- the tech tree has squadsize increases to be researched
- one CANNOT proceed in the techtree by skipping any of the combat-related topics.
- the game has many quests related to fighting
- in the fairy-chapter yet a new troop building was added : the mercenary camp.
- in the fairy-chapter new troops were promised (and way over 4 months have passed and they are still 'coming soon')
- several Ancient Wonders create troops, or strengthen troops

Taking all that into account, one cannot deny that fighting was designed to be a core part of the game. The fact that some players will choose not to follow up on that is up to them, but in no way alters the fact it is core design.
By making fighting now completely impossible Inno has (after the disastrous badly designed orc-chapter with ridiculous long waiting times) managed to once again destroy a part of the game in such a way that many players will quit if they don't take action soon.

 

[DeletedUser3640]

Old-timers and their arguments... New system is crippling new players more than anyone else, start thinking outside of the box already.

As an old player you're already used to the pace of the game, you have your manufactories rolling, most likely you're in the fellowship with decent balance of boosted goods in it, you already got your expansions and relics, kp from tournaments by abusing "old and easy" fighting system........so now you're defending new changes, because they don't affect you directly so to speak.

Meantime new players can't even finish their "noob" quests..

 

[DeletedUser188]

I have been playing Elvenar everyday since DAY 1
Fought for 90% of my provinces FIGHTING HAS BEEN A CORE PART OF THIS GAME SINCE ITS INCEPTION
When I started playing there wasn't any chests at the beginning of the chapters
The chests were added after the AWs because players stopped conquering provinces until they unlocked the AW research they wanted
So there wasn't any set number of provinces for any chapter
The premium expansions only appeared when you upgraded your MH now all 33 are available from start
The players played and gained expansions either by fighting or negotiating
If you fought you could only advance so far then the fights became impossible then you had to wait for squad upgrade(sound familiar)
Fighters have always had these road blocks to overcome
The players that figured out that they could negotiate forever as long as they had the goods could get as many expansions as they wanted
The only thing slowing them down was the scouting times
So the devs introduced the Orc requirement to slow down the negotiators even more
The Orcs only restrict the negotiators lower than Orc chapter = majority of players
Players that have orcs can continue to negotiate forever , good thing I am past that
The new battle system isn't my problem I have already figured out how to defeat whatever combo
What bothers me is the 1 day scout limit (if you have scouting times greater than 24 hrs don't expect to win a fight)
My scout time is 52 hrs and increasing we get 1 scout upgrade per chapter
I am afraid my scout times will never fall below 24 hrs ever again so I wont earn anymore province expansions from fighting
From this point on I will become a negotiator and just fight in tournaments
As a long time player and forum contributor the fact that someone would state that anything related to fighting wasn't CORE to the game
shows me how much of a NOOB that player really is no matter how many times they post in forum

 

[DeletedUser2870]

Old-timers and their arguments... New system is crippling new players more than anyone else, start thinking outside of the box already.

As an old player you're already used to the pace of the game, you have your manufactories rolling, most likely you're in the fellowship with decent balance of boosted goods in it, you already got your expansions and relics, kp from tournaments by abusing "old and easy" fighting system........so now you're defending new changes, because they don't affect you directly so to speak.

Meantime new players can't even finish their "noob" quests..

I have played elvenar for a long time, so I don't see myself a s anoob anymore. But I agree with your point. Problem is. where it used to be so that the elven units sucked in the beginning but became very good (not invincible, just very good) near the end, it now is almost impossible to fight right form the start, excpt it doesn't get to be any better later on anymore.
This new system just plain sucks

 

[DeletedUser2848]

I use to win most of my fights but now am on outer rings and since the update I cannot win one. Guess I will stop battling on the provinces and stick to tournaments for KP's. I tried every combination on the fighting. I used each and every one of my troops and nothing worked. I enjoyed the fighting but now I am at the end of the tree and waiting for next race to come out. I hate the orcs and will be glad to get away from them. They are nasty. I cannot afford to be using all my supplies building up my troops just to fail. I hope they will fix this problem. I will not give up the game just because I cannot win fights any more but I did enjoy those plus some goals require them. Will do negotiations until my supplies give out then back to the trades.

 

[buzzknit]

The new battling is hopeless for me even in my smaller city my troops are wiped out almost instantly. This change has no benefits that I can see, many people are thinking of quitting because nobody has the kind of money it takes to purchase diamonds to play. I am so disappointed and it looks like if I stay to play I will be moving nowhere fast. Why did they think this would be better???

 

[ventranolfdarho]

Fighting wasn't really essential to me, either, as I had always negotiated. However, with the tournaments, it's easier to fight our way through them. (And quicker.) Or, it was. With the new system, the fights are more difficult and, for me at least, it's pretty pointless to cater in the tournaments, With negotiating provinces, at least you're gaining the province and, therefore, eventually gaining the extra space for your land. In the tournaments, you don't get that. So, it's better to just fight them out. But when the cards are suddenly stacked against us... When the "enemy" becomes tougher to beat while your own troops become "magically" weaker, that throws people off. And that is where people are getting frustrated.

While I see your point, I do think that fighting is a much needed element to the game itself. If for nothing more than to keep peoples' interests. And some people are really good at the fighting. They figure out the strategies and actually win in tournaments and provinces. (I have a couple in my fellowship like this.) But now, their strategies are pretty much useless and they're having to relearn things. That can put a damper in a person's game quite quickly.

 

[DeletedUser3827]

If fighting is in the game, it's in the game - period. I enjoyed that part of it, and now it's a total waste of time.

 

[dikke ikke]

All provinces give the same rewards over and over again. With the new battle system I can only finish the 1st province completely (6 stars) with just a little bit of catering, province 2 and 3 I could do until 4 stars, then I have to start catering. I fight them all with blessed paladins, other troops were killed too fast most of the time, and it looks like there are much more obstacles on the playing field as before. But at least I finally completed the 2nd runes ring of my favorite AW, Golden Abyss, a residence on steroids

 

[DeletedUser3595]

This is a city building game, reminiscent of the early days of Age of Empires. Which, just as this game, requires battle in order to progress. There, it was for defense and exploration. Here is it for exploration.

To be successful, you need to trade goods, have an active fellowship or, barring that, active neighbors. In order to trade with neighbors without penalty, you need to expand, which requires trading goods or fighting. (Side bar: most people have adequate fellowships, but not all fellowships are created equal, especially as a new player. Most of the very active fellowships have restriction on who can join, which makes it very difficult for new players to advance at all. I know this because family members are having difficulties because they do not have enough "points" or not yet producing tier 3 goods, so they have struggled to acquire goods. Solution? Finding neighbors).

In the old system, there was a break even point when it became less expensive to continually train new units vs. negotiating. After about the 3rd ring, if you looked at the cost analysis, it took less time and supplies to fight than to produce the goods to negotiate. (Tournaments worked the same).

The new system, according to the discussions, was designed to slow players down. If you read the discussions, players advanced faster than deemed appropriate for the game. Excuse me? Players became good at an aspect of the game, so the solution is to change it so they cannot do so? That is the central flaw in this update. It is a punishment. In one world, I worked hard to make it to neighbors who would be active so I could trade and have more visits and supplies because I had 80 mines in my area. I literally had one province left, that I had negotiated some of the battles, and fought some when they changed it to the ring needed orcs in order to negotiate. So I sighed, and figured out how to beat the province, even though it wiped out 4/5 squads.

In that same world, I cannot even make it to the 2nd round before all my troops are wiped out.

I enjoyed the puzzle of the battle. Enjoyed the terrain challenges. Enjoyed the fact I could do a battle in about five minutes when I needed a quick break.

Battles now either take 2 rounds until I surrender or lose every troop, or take ten minutes or more. That took ALL the enjoyment out of the system.

I respect that people want to build their cities in different ways. It takes all kinds in a game like this.

In the end, unless some additional changes are made (or perhaps unmade), many people who do not want to be artificially throttled in their game will leave. It does not matter if people agree or disagree. If it is not fun, if it becomes a job, then why stay? We already have many things we must do. Let's encourage the designers to look at the whole picture to make this something people want to do in their free time.

 

[DeletedUser4539]

Many games fail, failed and going to fail due to too much complexity. The battle system in this game is to a point where a few elite players maybe able to figure it out and maybe even like it, but for me it is an alphabet soup.

 

[DeletedUser]

I can see how the new system brings roadblocks to newbies, but as someone who has been playing over a year, I certainly can't discount the issues it brings to older/advanced players as well.

I have been playing Elvenar everyday since DAY 1
Fought for 90% of my provinces FIGHTING HAS BEEN A CORE PART OF THIS GAME SINCE ITS INCEPTION
When I started playing there wasn't any chests at the beginning of the chapters
The chests were added after the AWs because players stopped conquering provinces until they unlocked the AW research they wanted
So there wasn't any set number of provinces for any chapter
The premium expansions only appeared when you upgraded your MH now all 33 are available from start
The players played and gained expansions either by fighting or negotiating

Yep, Andrew420 is right - when I started playing, there was no chests at the beginning of the chapters, no "suggestions" of how many provinces I "should have" conquered, and barely any AWs either. There were no tourneys to play either. Although I don't feel that I played in only one way or another, I definitely focused on fighting in provinces because I wanted to reach other neighbors. I was in an area with hardly any other players, so I worked hard to get to the ones who WERE playing so that I could trade with them & exchange visits.

Most of the people that have been impacted the greatest face scouting times more than a day, so they already know that the hourly KP is more helpful than province KP. I know I would rather have 24 KP for doing nothing than 8 kp for focusing all my efforts on fights. That way I can sink it into the research and build my city.

This is true from some player's perspective, and that's fine. But for those of us who LIKE fighting, it's not true. And you don't just have to like fighting to see it differently - as I have gotten ranked higher & higher, I like to 'give back' to newer players. So I try to accumulate KP not just for myself, but so I can throw it at a newbies AW in my FS (even if I don't have that AW and don't want it). And if I see a lower ranked player consistently playing this game or visiting my city, even if they are not in my FS, I want to send KP or trades their way to help make sure they stick around. So, I fight for more KP, and I participate in tourney's even if it is not my own boosted goods to get KP. And I burn my relics to use the spell that lets me go past the 10 KP limit. Sure, I benefit from this stuff, but my point is that I focus on KP accumulation for a variety of reasons, which to me is the POINT of the game. If you only like to fight, this game probably has too much city-building in it. If you only like to city build, this game probably has too much fighting in it. I like that it's a mix of both, and play all aspects. Some days I only focus on earning supplies & goods or building my troops. Other days when I have lots of troops, I focus on fighting. And, when there's a contest or quests I need, I use that as my guideline on what to do that day.

My point is really just that we all play our own way, and I think that should be encouraged, not roadblocked.

In the past couple of days, the Archmage of my Top 20 Winyandor FS has left & so have 2 other top players. They liquidated all their goods & supplies and are done - not a break - they are DONE. This is not only a huge blow to our FS, but I feel it's a blow to the game whether the Devs choose to see it that way or not.

No one seems to be listening, but so many players are stating that the game is losing the FUN. If a game is not fun, people will not play it. And that is exactly what I'm seeing & have seen each time all these roadblocks, changes & updates happen. It's crazy to me that when changes get horrible reviews on Beta, or suggestions are made that are not difficult to implement, that they are just steamrolled over rather than viewed as valuable feedback that could truly enrich the bottom line & make the game more attractive.

 

[DeletedUser]

Love your post, KMcCrady! Well said!

 

[DeletedUser3902]

This post has crap to do with the new battle system. What you fail to take into account is the game was design to appeal to both types of players. And where you are content to progress or play at a pace more slowly, some of us would prefer a more rewarding, quicker progression.

 

[Calenmir]

Thank you for your understanding travelstovegas - that was an excellent post.