crackie
Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
Went to double check for you. Yup, 13 Red Pandas and it looks like he just got himself 7 Twilight Phoenixes. Showing some restraint there.
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Your Elvenar Team
All Hail Buddy!
- Thread starter samidodamage
- Start date
BrinDarby
Well-Known Member
you should ask him/her , just how much it costs $$$$$ to get that stuff.....
'cause.............. thats InsanE !!
crackie
Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
I could, but it's none of my business
He keeps the lights on for the rest of us and I'm not doing 20k in tourney so he's not my competition. He is free to buy 7 more if it pleases him.
Darielle
Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
Holy Guacamole!
Raccon
Well-Known Member
Too bad the event is over, he should buy 13 more twilights and win every encounter with zero troop losses
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Zoof
Well-Known Member
Hmm. Let's do a wee bit of math. These numbers will be off. Maybe very off. Because the event is no longer running so there's numbers I can't actually check. And if they're any other place, well... laziness. Still. Going to show my work so if there's anything wrong, it becomes someone else's problem!
The "Cost in diamonds for 100 tokens" line could be a fair bit smaller since big spenders are going to be spending in the more efficient manner, but I can't remember what it was so I went with what I knew. The stupidly expensive option.
Also, I think the math above is also wrong ... somehow. But I can't quite put my finger on what. Anyhoo. To get 13 more twilights at the calculated price, it'd cost somewhat north of 3k USD. Probably a fair chunk less because I know the value on line 5 could be much better. But probably still not less than 1.5k USD? Blargh. Someone check mah math.
Code:
1. Get avg feather per 100 tokens.
2. Let avg tokens per feather = 25.
3. Let feathers to next full building = 260
4. Tokens to full building = (260) / (100 / 25) = 6500
5. Cost in diamonds for 100 tokens = 500
6. Cost in diamonds for full building = 6500 / 100 * 500 = 32500
7. Diamonds per dollar (browser, no spec'l, largest chunk): 11000 / 80 = 137.5 dia/USD
8. Cost in USD for full building = 32500 / 137.5 = 236.36The "Cost in diamonds for 100 tokens" line could be a fair bit smaller since big spenders are going to be spending in the more efficient manner, but I can't remember what it was so I went with what I knew. The stupidly expensive option.
Also, I think the math above is also wrong ... somehow. But I can't quite put my finger on what. Anyhoo. To get 13 more twilights at the calculated price, it'd cost somewhat north of 3k USD. Probably a fair chunk less because I know the value on line 5 could be much better. But probably still not less than 1.5k USD? Blargh. Someone check mah math.
BrinDarby
Well-Known Member
( and 13 petfood each time , too )
There is no way of balancing things for ppl like this...
So, Inno should stop trying to, and wreck'n it for the rest of us.
Zoof
Well-Known Member
You only get +3 VV per craft per panda so that's 39 extra VV. Let's run some numbers.
Yeah. No. They're never going to get that back.
EDIT: Crap. Line 13 doesn't have the correct unit conversions. Ah well. Too tired to deal
Code:
1. Average keys per flag: 22.8411k/f
2. Diamonds per key at largest discount: 500 / 100 * 1.40 = 7d/k
3. Diamonds per flag: 22.8411k/1f * 7d/1k = 159.8877d/f
3. Distance from panda to panda in keys: 340
4. NOTE: Distance covers only 8 artifacts. 9 Required to fully evolve panda.
6. USD per diamond at max norm discount: 0.0072727USD/1d
7. USD per flag: 159.8877d/1f * 0.007272727USD/1d = 1.162819USD/f
8. Distances needed to fully upgrade 12 more pandas: 15 (wow, that sucks)
9. Flags for full upgrade: 340f * 15 = 5100f/1fffu
10. USD for full upgrade: 5100f/1fffu * 1.162819USD/f = 5930.37USD/fffu
11. Diamonds for full upgrade: 5100f/1fffu * 159.8877d/f = 815427.27d/fffu
12. Chances of diamonds (old) 4*0.20+1*0.30c/10obj = 1.1c/10obj
13. Objects per diamond: 1obj/500d * 1.1c/10obj = 0.00022obj/d
14. VV per diamond: (100vv/1obj) * (0.00022obj/d) = 0.22VV/d
15. Vision vapors required to recoup event cost: 815427.27d * 0.22VV/d = 179393.9994VV
16. Crafts per day: 4
17. Vision vapors obtained through 13 pandas per day: 39*4 = 156
18. Days required to recoup costs: 179393.9994/156 = 1149.95
19. Pet food required for that amount of time: 1149.95/3*13 = 4983.117
20. This is all incredibly stupid. Why did I do this to myself?Yeah. No. They're never going to get that back.
EDIT: Crap. Line 13 doesn't have the correct unit conversions. Ah well. Too tired to deal
crackie
Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
Rumor is there are more Red Panda bases in inventory but I cannot confirm that at this time.
Until they nerfed the Mystery Object chest!@Zoof. That is a lot of chances at free diamonds.....and a really good investment for someone who wants to go there
Wrecking what though? The game was never on even grounds to begin with. It's silly to pretend like it ever was. It's not like a new player in Chap 5 that just started the game can compete with your parked city either, with however many years head start you have on them. I'm on the same server as this guy and it doesn't bother me what he's doing in his city. It just feels like every now and then, we take a field trip to the zoo to look at all the animals, but we def keep our hands to ourselves and don't feed them
As someone said on the EN forums, if they can afford all these birds, then paying for Pet Food is prob not a hurdle. Good job on the maths!
BrinDarby
Well-Known Member
@crackie ,
You know that everytime Inno giveth, Inno finds a way to Taketh away
another way. Are you saying players that have that many multiples,
aren't on Inno's radar when the nerf gun is used ??
I certainly agree, thanks to the ppl that can spend $2500usd per event,
they pay for many many of us to play for free, but even the popup
bldg sales have realistic maximums you can buy..... Don't ya think that
20 RedPandas or 15 Twilights is kinda overkill ??? ( too many )
Are we sure its not a CM, Dev, or staff ??? they might have accts with
a few million in diamonds floating around... @least that makes more
sense than someone spending $3k+ per event.... after event, after event.....
You know that everytime Inno giveth, Inno finds a way to Taketh away
another way. Are you saying players that have that many multiples,
aren't on Inno's radar when the nerf gun is used ??
I certainly agree, thanks to the ppl that can spend $2500usd per event,
they pay for many many of us to play for free, but even the popup
bldg sales have realistic maximums you can buy..... Don't ya think that
20 RedPandas or 15 Twilights is kinda overkill ??? ( too many )
Are we sure its not a CM, Dev, or staff ??? they might have accts with
a few million in diamonds floating around... @least that makes more
sense than someone spending $3k+ per event.... after event, after event.....
Iyapo1
Well-Known Member
Cycles per day = 4
Crafts per day would be up to 20 if the MA is not flipped(and why wouldn't a player flip if they fed all those?). Also your numbers ignore the actual VV of the items being crafted(which is reasonable).
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Zoof
Well-Known Member
Those are fair points. The point of the calcs were twofold:
1. Figure out how much USD the person might need to spend to come up with all those pandas
2. Figure out how many crafts it would take to recover the cost, in diamonds, in buying all those pandas.
If you start factoring in the spending required to flip crafts to make things go faster, that starts going down a rabbit hole that none of us would ever get out of to the point where if they flipped often enough, the time to recoup would just keep going up.
Which isn't to say that they won't be doing that. On the contrary, to be able to feed those pandas, the person in question would need to be flipping quite a bit just to land those recipes. Thing is, I don't know the overall odds of encountering Pet Food per flip. Which also segues into how they're going to ultimately pay for those crafts. If it's just spell fragments, then it's easy. Well... easier. Sorta. Let's do some more math. Some of it is guesswork.
Code:
21. Chances of daily per flag: 20%/2.222f
22. Dailies per full upgrades: 5100fffu * (0.20c/2.222f) = 459.046d
23. Highest frag per daily: 720sf/d
24. Spell fragments for all dailies: 720sf/d * 459.046d = 330513.12sf
25.1. Pet foods purchasable: (idk actual number. Rounding up to 1600): 330513.12sf/1600 = 206.57
25.2. Pet foods purchasable if converted to CC (assume inf relics): 330513.12/(5000/8*2) = 264.41
25.3. Additional crafts required in converting to needed CC: 66
26.2. Maximum days you can feed from event earnings alone: 264/13*3 = 60.9
27. Earnings in VV in doing so: (261 + 66) * 39 = 12753
28. Remaining balance required for repayment: (
179393.9994 - 12753) = 166640
29. Why am I still doing this? I have a project to work on >.>And if you're spending the requisite 50 diamonds to flip... well. At 0.22VV per diamond each roll sets you back 11VV worth. Assuming that every roll gives you on average one thing to craft (which is really iffy) that's about +28VV instead of +39VV you're making back, the above numbers change from 12753 to something more like 9156, or a loss of about 29% efficiency... or a little less than 550 days worth of crafting. About a month difference?
idk. Things are getting real fuzzy at that point. This is all trending towards "feasible but impractical" and is probably not the way you want to run a city. Definitely not if you're out there to make a profit. And I think the devs realized that too when they changed the Magic Academy to spit out fewer diamonds on average. We've got a Jenga tower of numbers to play off of to recalculate a more current payback period.
EDIT: Yes, I know I moved a goalpost slightly in there. I hadn't realized at the start that trying to pay for all those pet foods would become an issue, and using diamonds to do so would most likely cause the payback period to zoom off into infinity if one tried that.
EDIT2: Yes, I know there's a lot of assumptions on RNG. I'm ignoring those for this time in favor of the Law of Large Numbers. Which is typically inapplicable for the rest of us peasants, but suddenly becomes relevant when you're throwing around amounts of money that one could instead use to pay
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Iyapo1
Well-Known Member
Problem is you are applying this limit to a long time gamer with multiple moonstone sets, if not currently out then at least in inventory and available. Such players dont need the spire for spell fragments or CCs.
My drooling over those pandas is unabated!...if I could have them for just 1 day.....
Zoof
Well-Known Member
Okay, fair. The limit I imposed was mostly based on personal experience with a 1-set silver+ (but never gold) spire fellowship. Let's now assume that this particular argument melted away like an ice cream cone in the middle of a noonday Death Valley summer with the presence of a zip code's worth of Moonstone Sets. Assume you've got all the time boosters you'll ever need (yay spire?) and bump up the number of crafts to a solid 20 daily. That's... uh.
Cripes, my desktop calculator's battery is running low
780 additional VVs a day. Rerunning the numbers (while I still can) nets you a repayment period of about 230 days. If you now assume a rather rosy picture of being able to get 1 pet food per 3 rolls (forced or not), that's about 39 rolls for 13 pet foods. Someone please check how many rolls on average it takes to get pet food to appear. In a 3 day period (feed time duration), that's 12 non-forced rolls and 27 forced rerolls. That's 1350 diamonds, or ... uh.
1350d * 0.22VV/d = 297VV lost due to rerolling.
If you craft literally everything on each roll, that's (7605-297)/3=7308/3=2436VV a day.
Which means the repayment period drops to 73 days. Which...
Cripes. Googles: days between September 7, 2021 and January 31, 2022
If this player were on the ball the entire time, they had potentially 146 days to milk this for all it was worth. Potentially if they blitzed the entire event on the opening day of the Autumn Zodiac Event. They'd have made about 1,616,500 diamonds, less 815,427 diamonds for the initial investment. The number only goes higher if they were rerolling a heck of a bunch more. This might actually have been a positive feedback loop. Lose 11VV worth to a reroll, gain 195VV by clearing out the crafts. You'd have been limited by whatever your Moonstone District could pump out. Holy ****. EDIT: I take back the whole "check how many rolls on average it takes to get pet food" part; this was a positive feedback loop so long as you could craft things to keep ahead of the costs to reroll. Which now seems trivial.
No wonder why the devs clamped down on that. I see the light now.
Now... the real question is whether or not this feedback loop still exists with the "new" MA values.
EDIT2: Average 6% to get 500 diamonds on 100VV. Uh. 0.012d/VV. Uh. Crap. I might have been off by an order of magnitude somewhere in the calculations. I'm... not going back to verify that. Either way, there may still have been a positive feedback loop. Possibly. Oh double doody. This is going to take more math and I'm all mathed out.
EDIT3: Minor bits of math are giving me very conflicting results. If the simplified version is correct, the ridiculously garbage current MA offerings are reporting better numbers than the old but messy values, but just slightly. Which means if what I was doing was wrong in the wrong direction, the old values were ridiculously better. To the tune of 25 times better. Which means this player could've had north of 40 million diamonds. What a mess >.>
EDIT4: @crackie I need help. Unsure if the help needed is in the domain of bud's specialties
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crackie
Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
For me, yes. For that guy, clearly not. I don’t see why it matters though. I did really crappy on the Boblin event and I did really crappy on this event. In both cases, it boils down to RNG on getting bonus currency. It’s not like he (or others) bought 10 Boblins that event is why I got majorly screwed. It’s an interesting spectacle, but it doesn’t really affect what I want to do with my city.
No, I am not sure. I think the test accounts are used on test servers though so they are isolated. So isolated that helya’s FS is made up of only her mini me’s.
ajqtrz
Chef - loquacious one
$1,495.56 to be exact. (Don't ask me how I know this amazingly precise estimate. It's a closely guarded secret).
AJ
Raccon
Well-Known Member
This player must have trillions of winter lampions and now smallest rooms too, since before every diamond win in the MA you win a truck load of every thing else