Ancient Wonder Improvement Idea

[LisaMV]

thank you helya !

 

[Lord Syer]

I am unsure we are playing the same game, from my experience (and visting other high evel towns) space gets much easier as the game goes on, not harder. It is its hardest in the early chapters, it only only improves from there. There is plenty of room to build all the wonders if you so desire, but be warned it will hurt other parts of your game. This fits in with the devs idea of people choosing their wonders carefuly, as Helya mentioned above.

If you look at a lot of higher level towns they have a lot of buildings they just don't need. I easily have 5-10 factories and the infrastructure to support it that I just don't need. Towns have the space so they fill it up with all sorts of things. If AW's is your priortiy then fill it up with those and not the factories, armouries, culture, evolving building or FA buildings etc that are common filliers. As an example of space one of our fellowship members turne their excess space into a wonderful unicorn race (6-8 expansions dedicated to this). It was awesome fun watching the unicorns charge along the course. Personally far more useful and exciting than certain wonders

Also before someone says you have to be premium to have enough space:

1. Reach chapter 3 and learn about the spire and crafting
2. Explore on the world map to max out your expansions

I agree, we must not be playing the same game, . From what I read in other players' posts, my fs members thoughts, and my own experiences, it seems that most players agree that space is the most difficult commodity to obtain in the game (unless you're spending diamonds). There haven't been any new province expansions for many chapters now, and with only 2 research expansions per chapter you lose a substantial amount of space every chapter if you're upgrading your buildings. For example, most players maintain about 10 workshops to feed troop training, research, goods production, participate in FAs, etc. Upgrading one from a 4x5 footprint to a 5x6 footprint cost 10 grid squares. Upgrading all 10 =100 grid squares. Since you only receive two expansions @ 5x5 (=25) grid squares, or 50 new grid squares per chapter, you're losing 50 grid squares upgrading your workshops alone. That doesn't even factor in upgrading your Main Hall, armories, troop training buildings, etc. or building/upgrading ever larger culture buildings to keep pace with culture requirements.

I work the Spire for diamonds and only save/use them to buy expansions. Nothing else. But the cost of a single expansion in diamonds is astronomical now, and it takes a year to save enough to buy a single expansion (without spending real $ or getting VERY lucky in crafting). Keeping your city modernized/upgraded is clearly a losing battle of attrition with space--that is easily demonstrated mathematically. Also, looking at the city map, it is abundantly clear that the devs will either need to expand it to allow for future chapters or change how things fit into the existing space. My suggestion above is to facilitate the latter. It doesn't really affect the difficulties players experience with finding the space we need to expand, but it does enable us to build more AWs to enjoy a greater part of the game the devs spent so much time and effort creating--while also helping them to solve the map issue for future chapters.

 

[Kadhrin]

most players maintain about 10 workshops

....erm, what?? That seems excessive. I used to run six to eight workshops in my Embassies city. The Spire has given me four magic workshops, and now those are all I use. I hit the supplies cap somewhat frequently, despite burning thru a lot of troops. If I run low, using Power of Provision boosts fixes that fairly quickly.

I also used to use five to eight of each type of factory. Those numbers have gone down drastically, too: from 8/6/5 to 4/3/3 to 2/3/1. The idea that a city needs space to upgrade every factory from chapter 3 to chapter whatever is not something I've seen confirmed in play.

 

[samidodamage]

@Kadhrin
Totally agree. Maybe referring to players who do more in tourneys and spire and need more supplies for that? In my Ch18 city I have 2 magic WS and still hit the cap even burning through troops. I use the spells and supply instants if there's an issue, but with thousands of spells in inventory that's obviously not often. I'm 100% combat in Spire but do cater some of the higher provinces in the tourney if I can't win the fight. I top the Spire weekly and do 8100pts in the tourney every week. Maybe catering/convincing burns through more supplies?
I know some folks don't care for combat. When I started this game, I had never played a combat game and didn't plan on it here, lol! But once I got to Ch5/6 I tried it in tourney and found it cost far less than catering. I think if I had to use 8 more WS to cater/convince, I'd learn the battle system even faster, lol!

 

[Iyapo1]

Complete pacifist here with 4 Magic workshops. I use PoP spells everyday and I also have a PT (once it hits 30 I will drop to 3 Workshops). Gold spire with solid tournament averages.

 

[Mykan]

Space is certainly a challenege in the game but it is not a hard challenge and it is simply a matter of priorities. If you want to keep every building in every chapter of course you will run out of space. My 20 factories in chapter1-3 would kill me in the mid chapters let alone late chapters, so I delete some and upgrade others. But the space they occupy to meet the need is basically the same.

There are players who build every wonder or most with surplus other things they could place them all. It can be worth looking at how other people achieve the things we want to do. Allowing people to have every wonder would be such a bad idea as most have no clue how detrimental that can be to thier game. You want to do spire for diamonds and tourny for kp/blueprints (whatever) but every wonder hurts that and increases the cost to do. All this would achieve is to increase difficutly in parts of the game most people are oblivious to the mechanics and people would still fill up the space with things they dont really need but like for whatever reason a person places the things they place. People would still complain about space and then about how hard spire and tourny is.

 

[Darielle]

I agree, we must not be playing the same game, . From what I read in other players' posts, my fs members thoughts, and my own experiences, it seems that most players agree that space is the most difficult commodity to obtain in the game (unless you're spending diamonds). There haven't been any new province expansions for many chapters now, and with only 2 research expansions per chapter you lose a substantial amount of space every chapter if you're upgrading your buildings. For example, most players maintain about 10 workshops to feed troop training, research, goods production, participate in FAs, etc. Upgrading one from a 4x5 footprint to a 5x6 footprint cost 10 grid squares. Upgrading all 10 =100 grid squares. Since you only receive two expansions @ 5x5 (=25) grid squares, or 50 new grid squares per chapter, you're losing 50 grid squares upgrading your workshops alone. That doesn't even factor in upgrading your Main Hall, armories, troop training buildings, etc. or building/upgrading ever larger culture buildings to keep pace with culture requirements.

I work the Spire for diamonds and only save/use them to buy expansions. Nothing else. But the cost of a single expansion in diamonds is astronomical now, and it takes a year to save enough to buy a single expansion (without spending real $ or getting VERY lucky in crafting). Keeping your city modernized/upgraded is clearly a losing battle of attrition with space--that is easily demonstrated mathematically. Also, looking at the city map, it is abundantly clear that the devs will either need to expand it to allow for future chapters or change how things fit into the existing space. My suggestion above is to facilitate the latter. It doesn't really affect the difficulties players experience with finding the space we need to expand, but it does enable us to build more AWs to enjoy a greater part of the game the devs spent so much time and effort creating--while also helping them to solve the map issue for future chapters.

I agree with you in principle, but as far as upgrading all your workshops, I know from experience that you need fewer workshops as you upgrade them. When I started out, I had 12 workshops at least (can't remember exactly, but that figure sounds low to me.) Now in Chapter 17, I have 4 magic workshops and they give me far, far more than enough supplies, when coupled with a Prosperity Towers wonder. I have to dump supplies in the wholesaler every day. If I had tried to live on 4 workshops ... even 4 magic ones, in the early chapters, I would not have survived. So because of the fact that while you're upgrading goods, you're also finding that you can get away with a bit fewer buildings, then I'd say that the space problem isn't too horrendous. But I still think it's hard; I'm still always hurting for space. The only time I can rearrange or add anything is between guest races, it seems. But I suspect that means that I'm just not taking the time to assess my space needs adequately between chapters.

 

[crackie]

Chap 13 non-pacifist with 10 workshops, 4 of them with blue roofs. I have been warned not to go too crazy with leveling my PT because higher chapter workshops eventually create way too many tools. Right now, my army chews through hammers. They have poor dental plan.

 

[defiantoneks]

But I still think it's hard;

It's supposed to be hard. If it wasnt hard, everyone would do it. The hard is what makes it great.

 

[Lelanya]

Oh boy
Do you ever get the feeling that you have missed something in ever Evolving world of Crackie? Is Buddy worshipping a flaming macrame owl?

 

[crackie]

Is Buddy worshipping a flaming macrame owl?

Maybe.
FREE ROPE!

 

[Darielle]

It's supposed to be hard. If it wasnt hard, everyone would do it. The hard is what makes it great.

Exactly!

 

[ajqtrz]

Not to be the destroyer of hopes and dreams here, but the devs have stated that they want players to choose the Wonders they use carefully, so I don't think making it easy to place all of them would fit in their plan.

So we petition to fire the devs and hire ones we like! See how easy that was?

AJ

 

[helya]

Maybe.
FREE ROPE!

I should have known better.

 

[crackie]

I should have known better.

They keep talking about rope in their posts so I thought I’d better get my arts & crafts homework done and made my macrame owl. Not my fault Buddy can perform magic but chooses to use it to burn things! We better go watch Spider-man movies together now and learn about the great responsibilities that comes with having great power. Good thing she already made a lot of popcorn...

 

[Deleted User - 593524]

Not to be the destroyer of hopes and dreams here, but the devs have stated that they want players to choose the Wonders they use carefully, so I don't think making it easy to place all of them would fit in their plan.

I agree. I do not want all of them and it would take a lot of the challenge out of the game