• Dear forum visitor,

    It looks as though you have not registered for a forum account, or are not signed in. In order to participate in current discussions or create new threads, you will need to register for a forum account by clicking on the link below.

    Click here to register for a forum account!

    If you already have a forum account, you can simply click on the 'Log in' button at the top right of your forum screen.

    Your Elvenar Team

[Archived 4/2020] News from Beta - May Contain Spoilers!

Status
Not open for further replies.

CrazyWizard

Oh Wise One
MinMax Gamer said:
Which encounter though? Mine go from 1K up to 4K at the last boss. But as I mentioned, I catered very few orcs in the Spire in the last months - I just fight those encounters even if they look sketchier than I would like. Orc conservation mode ;)
Click to expand...
one of the last 4, 701 wonder levels really hurt.
 

KarlD

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the Chapter 16 preview. Does everyone have to get exactly the same goods shown or does the type of goods change depending on your boosts?
 
MinMax Gamer

MinMax Gamer

Well-Known Member
Risen Malchiah

Risen Malchiah

Well-Known Member
Wow, the production setup looks incredibly complicated. And to think, much of that can be eliminated with portal profits. I think Inno is going to have to come up with interesting mechanics, rather than seemingly complicated ones to encourage players to experience the chapter rather than feeling bored enough to just skip steps with instants. I'm not sure that's entirely possible, but I'd welcome the chance to try. Ashrem's luminescent idea comes to mind as such a unique and fascinating concept that I'd actually want to spend *more* time in that chapter rather than speed through it. Too bad it seems Inno doesn't want chapter ideas from players because I'm sure we could come up with a dozen of them (and without the need to make them overly long just to stretch them out). :p
 
MinMax Gamer

MinMax Gamer

Well-Known Member
Risen Malchiah said:
...much of that can be eliminated with portal profits...
Click to expand...
Not really in this case. If you look at the research, you will see that you need uncapped goods pretty much throughout the whole chapter, till the very end. So you literally only skipping one production type out of all of these arrows. The rest (all the intermediaries) you still need to do, and in non-trivial amounts.
 
Risen Malchiah

Risen Malchiah

Well-Known Member
Ahh, I was hoping that Statutes would be the main thing needed in the tech tree. I guess I didn't look closely enough. I got sucked into the production setup tree you made.
 
Pheryll

Pheryll

Well-Known Member
This chapter looks like it is specifically designed with the Blooming Trader Guild in mind. Remember from the constructs chapter that the portal's production was not boosted by the portal bonus, but instead its base costs and base production increased by the scale used for other guest race buildings when leveling. This effect allowed for the Blooming Trader Guild to be multiplicative, instead of additive, for the portal's production. Now we have a portal with multiple levels of production each level boosted by the Trader Guild, thus significantly reducing cost of lower guest race goods to get to the final product.

Here is the basic production line. Draft laws -> Fairy/Dwarf propositions -> Fairy/Dwarf amendments -> Statutes. Tea/Mead is added to the propositions to make amendments, and inspiration is needed to turn amendments into statutes. However, three of the four steps in the chain are performed at the portal. This means that your consumption of draft laws (and thus the time spent making them) can be drastically reduced step by step with the Blooming Trader Guild. For example with a level 13 BTG (20% bonus) and a level 4 portal (60%) you would multiply the draft laws by 1.2, the propositions by 1.8 (sum of the two bonuses), the amendments by 1.2 and the statutes by 1.2. Thus the BTG is doing more along the chain than the portal bonus.

The only complicating part of the chapter is the extra productions from the embassies when they are upgraded. At level 2 and 3 the fairy and dwarven embassy can subsidize the draft law cost by using mead/tea. At level 4 inspiration can subsidize the draft law cost. This feature is what makes the layout look very complicated, when it is just a simple four step chain otherwise.
 
MinMax Gamer

MinMax Gamer

Well-Known Member
Risen Malchiah said:
Thank you @Pheryll for that analysis. I am almost done with ch15 and have never bothered with the BTG since I figured much of the benefit would be behind me. But it seems the BTG is powerful enough to consider it as part of the guest race settlement.
Click to expand...
Well, that's the thing though - you can't just have BTG as part of a settlement. Considering you can't even teleport away AWs, you need to commit space and non-trivial amounts of KP to leveling it up. But returns on that are, unfortunately, not great nowadays (and I do have L6 bee from before portal profits days). Basically, guest race production is boosted, but the amounts are not dramatic unless leveled pretty high. Chapters with multiple intermediates may see a bigger impact as @Pheryll mentioned, but really, working on the last chapter and speeding its intermediate production may not even be a bottleneck (e.g. see sentient production in chapter 15).

And outside of chapters, BTG is fairly useless late game. So for secondary effects you have increased wholesaler offers (you don't rely on wholesaler late game, do you? ;)), reduced trader fee (you won't see trader fees once you hit a certain number of provinces) and ranking points (you can get these elsewhere cheaper). Not exactly exciting, to say the least.

So while I am not deleting my existing BTG (I have space), I probably wouldn't have built it nowadays if I had none yet. Vortex of Storage AW also has primary effect only useful in chapters, but at least it has secondary effect that is somewhat useful in the off-season (boosting sentient production). Even though this one is also a stretch ;)
 
Enevhar Aldarion

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
MinMax Gamer said:
And outside of chapters, BTG is fairly useless late game. So for secondary effects you have increased wholesaler offers (you don't rely on wholesaler late game, do you? ;)), reduced trader fee (you won't see trader fees once you hit a certain number of provinces) and ranking points (you can get these elsewhere cheaper). Not exactly exciting, to say the least.

So while I am not deleting my existing BTG (I have space), I probably wouldn't have built it nowadays if I had none yet. Vortex of Storage AW also has primary effect only useful in chapters, but at least it has secondary effect that is somewhat useful in the off-season (boosting sentient production). Even though this one is also a stretch ;)
Click to expand...

Is there any chance for a synergy between BTG and Vortex? I can't remember if Portal production is based on storage amount. Because if it is, the Vortex boosts storage and BTG boosts production, and if the amount produced is a percent of max storage, the two together would give more production for the same amount of time/resources. Maybe if not true now, it will be true in future chapters?
 
MinMax Gamer

MinMax Gamer

Well-Known Member
Enevhar Aldarion said:
I can't remember if Portal production is based on storage amount.
Click to expand...
Nope, it's fixed numbers per level. VoS allows for better efficiency of Portal Profits, which tilts the scale in favor of PP vs BTG even more...

VoS would help even more in setups like chapter 15, where dumping PPs on multiple capped resources likely wastes quite a bit (due to requirements not being symmetrical). With increased portal capacity this is easier to manage or to avoid completely.

As to what changes could be out there in the future - who knows? ;)
 
Risen Malchiah

Risen Malchiah

Well-Known Member
Good points. I use the wholesaler often to dump coins, though I certainly don't rely on it. But that would be a poor reason for BTG between chapters. I guess I'm in no real rush if I can get through each chapter before the next one arrives anyway. (Though I do really like having lots of open space.) :)
 
Risen Malchiah

Risen Malchiah

Well-Known Member
MinMax Gamer said:
If you use (or want to use) magic residences and/or workshops, you may want to take a look at some of the incoming changes
Click to expand...
Thank you for that spoiler. Looks like I may wait before venturing into the next chapter. It will be a good time to finally put out my wishing well farm that I've been delaying due to Constructs/Elvenar/FA/events.
 
Pheryll

Pheryll

Well-Known Member
MinMax Gamer said:
And here is the last (for now) part - upgrades: https://minmaxgame.com/elvenar-embassies-upgrades-preview/
Click to expand...


Looks like there is very little city rearrangement required. Many buildings get bigger, but only the training grounds rotates by swapping shortest and longest dimensions. Also, it is interesting that the training grounds catches up with the barracks and mercenary camp, instead of playing leap frog every other chapter. This may suggest that the later chapters may have all three buildings upgrade at the same time and the same rate.
 
MinMax Gamer

MinMax Gamer

Well-Known Member
Pheryll said:
Also, it is interesting that the training grounds catches up with the barracks and mercenary camp, instead of playing leap frog every other chapter.
Click to expand...
There was hardly a leapfrog the last time around (350->370, Amuni/Constructs). It seems that the Training Grounds was almost never ahead throughout the game - especially considering the AW speed increases were available very early for two other buildings, but TG got one very late. But it surely was behind by a lot plenty of time.

Somehow, TG just doesn't get love from the devs no matter what.
 
Pheryll

Pheryll

Well-Known Member
MinMax Gamer said:
There was hardly a leapfrog the last time around (350->370, Amuni/Constructs). It seems that the Training Grounds was almost never ahead throughout the game - especially considering the AW speed increases were available very early for two other buildings, but TG got one very late. But it surely was behind by a lot plenty of time.

Somehow, TG just doesn't get love from the devs no matter what.
Click to expand...

Look at the chapters from orcs to constructs to see the leap frog mechanic. Barracks 22-33 matches training grounds 11-22. At the end of orcs training grounds is faster by two levels, then at the end of woodelves barracks is faster by two levels, etc. Then the last two levels of training grounds in constructs shows a slow down for the change in pattern.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top