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    Your Elvenar Team

Best Ancient Wonders

DeletedUser8946

Guest
Hmm. It might be hard to name a "best". Mountain Halls is certainly a nominee. CL is a personal favorite as well, although not everyone shares that. The increased Neighborly Help time is awesome, plus the thousands of boosted goods you get every day. I think a "favorite" would have to be judged off what you want. If you're in need of supplies, Prosperity Towers might be the best. If you're a military type of guy, Heroes' Forge. You're in the last three Chapters, it could be the Maze of the Dark matter.
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
NOTE: THIS THREAD IS HELLA OLD THE FOLLOWING MAY NO LONGER BE ACCURATE
Some AW are better than their normal counterparts depending a bit on your playstyle.
For example the ToS gives more supplies than a workshop per square as long as you scout once every 48h or less.
Same goes for Prosperity towers and Endless excavation. So while those 3 might not be "best" they are better than normal workshops making them imo "must have/no brainer" wonders as they save you space even at level 1.

Others that are better than normal buildings are the Shrine of Shrewdy and Dwarven bulwark. These wonders are better than getting a 3rd armory for increasing training stack size, so If you want 3 armories you should build one of these plus 2 armories instead.

The golden abyss/MT.hall are pretty simple- as soon as it gives more pop/sq than a residence you should get it.

You barracks can only be upgraded to a point, so the needles is an option if you want to train faster than your max.

Even with the nerf to the CL/BS, in some situations it may provide more goods per square than factories do depending on boost%, production times, and chapter. Too many variables to make a blanket statement on that one.
 
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DeletedUser7421

Guest
For example the ToS gives more supplies than a workshop per square as long as you scout once every 48h or less.
Same goes for Prosperity towers and Endless excavation. So while those 3 might not be "best" they are better than normal workshops making them imo "must have/no brainer" wonders as they save you space even at level 1.
Yes Im looking at ways to increase supplies, but since Im well over 30 hrs scout time Im thinking that the ToS isn't a great option.

Others that are better than normal buildings are the Shrine of Shrewdy and Dwarven bulwark. These wonders are better than getting a 3rd armory for increasing training stack size, so If you want 3 armories you should build one of these plus 2 armories instead.
Don't I need 3 armories for orcs to produce enough orcs to upgrade and scout - when I finally build that settlement next spring?

The golden abyss is pretty simple- as soon as it gives more pop/sq than a residence you should get it.
Yes I love it! Over a 1000 pop now!

Mountain Halls and Prosperity Towers are the two that Im looking at most seriously right now.
 

DeletedUser7421

Guest
How is Hero's Forge for orc production? Too bad it comes at the end of orcs and not the start!

*Edit*
Does the Dwarven Bulwak breed orcs? Because I think Im going to need 3 orc breeding armories and don't want to sell one to build the bulwak if it doesn't breed the orcs I need to scout and upgrade.
 
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DeletedUser9247

Guest
How is Hero's Forge for orc production? Too bad it comes at the end of orcs and not the start!
Orcs are a permanent resource, after the chapter you will need them the same way as you need goods- catering provinces (ring 11 plus) and building upgrades. Wonder may help you save on supplies as producing orcs costs quite a lot.
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
Don't I need 3 armories for orcs to produce enough orcs to upgrade and scout - when I finally build that settlement next spring?
2 is plenty, and if you can grab a couple orc nests in chapter 8+ you can use even fewer.
How is Hero's Forge for orc production? Too bad it comes at the end of orcs and not the start!
It's not terrible, but 2 orc nests are smaller, and make more orcs.
 

Risen Malchiah

Well-Known Member
I'm not wild about the Dwarven Bulwark since it yields light melee troops that we hardly ever use. The only value then is the longer troop production (for less downtime while sleeping). But it could be useful until you can replace it with a much better Shrewdy Shrooms.

Mountain Halls gives a nice population boost, similar to Golden Abyss, but it's massive size is a turnoff for me. I don't think it's good until later in the game when space is more flexible and you have enough working population to make the population outpace its size. The increase in goods is so small that it's not really worth it since it doesn't actually take your boost into account. (I dont know why people like this one so much.)

Unfortunately, the AWs I think are best are beyond your current chapter.
 

DeletedUser8946

Guest
@Risen Malchiah I think the Goods Boost is DEFINITELY worth it, and the Pop is awesome. Especially if you're looking for something good to dump KP into while you're waiting.

I love all this talk about 2 or 3 Armories. I'm only a Dwarf (on my Elc city, which is the only one I really pay attention to), but I have 6 Superior Armories. I understand it's not the same, because they don't produce Orcs, but still. 6, with a Level 17 Barracks.

Needless to say, I'm a fighter, not a negotiator.
 

DeletedUser7421

Guest
Is it worth building both endless excavation and prosperity towers, or is one of them better than the other?
 

Risen Malchiah

Well-Known Member
@Risen Malchiah I think the Goods Boost is DEFINITELY worth it, and the Pop is awesome. Especially if you're looking for something good to dump KP into while you're waiting.

I love all this talk about 2 or 3 Armories. I'm only a Dwarf (on my Elc city, which is the only one I really pay attention to), but I have 6 Superior Armories. I understand it's not the same, because they don't produce Orcs, but still. 6, with a Level 17 Barracks.

Needless to say, I'm a fighter, not a negotiator.
I was the same way with armories but reduced that down to 4 once I built the Bulwark and Shrooms.

The reason I say that about the Mountain Halls is that people seem to have an exaggerated notion of how much it gives. A lvl 1 gives 24%, which sounds like a lot. But it's 24% based on the NON-boosted amount, which yields about the same as what one used to expect from a single visit with the CL/BS. Open one of your factories and hover over the amount over the progress bar to see the breakdown of exactly how much you're getting. The first time I did that, I was shocked at just how little it was and I promptly tore the thing down.
 

DeletedUser3640

Guest
Made a list, taking into account some major conditions* that need to be taken into account when deciding if it’s good enough for your playstyle.

*Minor conditions like ability to gather each 3h were not taken into account because a lot of AWs require that to be used to full potential.


Best AW with no conditions:


Golden Abyss – size matters. It’s small, requires extremely low amount of KPs to level up and gives the same amount of pop as huge and expensive counterpart - Mountain Halls. If leveled up, can provide enough coins to cover your daily needs (for productions).

Best AW with conditions:

Dragon Abbey – undeniably the best AW (beats Golden Abyss) if you have lvl 5 Magic Academy and/or participate in tournaments regularly.

It’s created to be abused. Allows you to bypass game mechanics:

1) removes the need for “mana” buildings, meaning no more waste of space for road connections to low-culture buildings;

2) provides any amount of mana instantly, meaning no more mana decay and no more waiting for mana to accumulate.

Good AWs with no conditions:

Prosperity Towers – it’s better than a workshop. Provides more supplies than EE (see below), if you can collect every 3h at least 5 times per day. Improvement of a spell is a nice bonus.

Endless Excavation – it’s better than a workshop. Requires you to be online once a day to be effective. Nuff said. Primary effect (additional relics) is a joke though.

Mountain Halls – bad version of Golden Abyss. Huge, expensive, but still gives crap load of pop…so… quite “good” AW. Becomes much better if you have magical residences and/or magical workshops, and /or premium culture buildings, and/or a lot of good event buildings with pop and culture: then you can have more manufactories, making its primary effect more…. effective.

Good AWs with conditions:

Martial Monastery/Sanctuary – if you’re a fighter, then it’s a “must have” AW. If you’re not, it’s still good because it’s better than any regular culture building.

Watchtower Ruins – if you list a culture “help” as your first choice, then it’s a “must have” AW. If you’re not, it’s still good because it’s better than any regular culture building.

Crystal Lighthouse/Great Bell Spire - if you list a culture “help” as your first choice, then it’s a “must have” AW. Otherwise, it’s useless. Has a great synergy with Watchtower Ruins (see above).

Tome of Secrets – it’s better than a workshop. Kind of. Falls off late game due to long scouting times, thus becoming worse than Prosperity Towers and Endless Excavation (see above). One of the best early-mid game AWs for sure though.

Decent AW with no conditions:


Blooming Trader Guild – it’s huge, it’s expensive, it’s effectiveness is directly influenced by how many guest race buildings you can build. Think carefully about this one. P.S. You’ll love it more than any other AW during S&D chapter though.

Decent AWs with conditions:

Needles of the Tempest – absolutely useless for players who don’t fight. For those who do, on the other hand, has some questionable value. Archers are used just in 1 tournament as a primary unit. We have 3 different buildings that share training queue, so spending KPs to increase speed of one of them might be a bad idea, because some units will be better in others.

Flying Academy - absolutely useless for players who don’t fight. For those who do, on the other hand, has some questionable value. Mage units are godlike for humans, and absolutely suck for elves. We have 3 different buildings that share training queue, so spending KPs to increase speed of one of them might be a bad idea, because some units will be better in others.

Dwarven Bulwark – absolutely useless for players who don’t fight. For those who do, I’d say it’s a must have AW. If leveled up, replaces need for armories (you’ll basically need armories just to gain orcs), thus saving a lot of pop and culture.

Shrine of the Shrewdy Shrooms – absolutely useless for players who don’t fight. For those who do, I’d say it’s a must have AW as well. If leveled up, replaces need for armories (you’ll basically need armories just to gain orcs), thus saving a lot of pop and culture.

Heroes' Forge* – condition here is its primary effect. Without it, and for players who don’t fight, it’s just bad AW – orcs output is just too small (if not leveled, of course, but you shouldn’t level it first anyway). If you’re a fighter though, turns to be decent AW.

*Theoretically, might be a veeeeeery good AW for players who don’t fight – by leveling it (and by leveling here I mean absolutely dedicating yourself to this AW only), they can get rid of all armories.

Temple of the Toads – absolutely useless for players who don’t fight. For those who do, it’s a generator of ranking points – 2 tournaments use heavy ranged units as a primary unit, and they are the easiest ones. Just don’t forget to fight manually as much as possible.

Elvenar Trade Center – trader already provides more than enough seeds, so primary effect is a joke. Secondary effect is quite good, but only if you’re participating in tournaments and/or have lvl 5 Magic Academy.

Bad AW with no conditions:

Thrones of the High Men – values of effects are just too low for it to be good. Requires heavy leveling to become “decent”.

Bad AW with conditions:

Maze of the Dark Matter – condition here is the ability to build Dragon Abbey (which you should, it being the best AW right now). Huge, extremely expensive KP wise, conflicts with Dragon Abbey…. Just poorly designed AW.
 

The Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
- GA is definitely the "God Tier" wonder...
- Mt.Halls is great as well, with the idea that it should probably be ignored until *after* you've complete O&G's chapter, which will at least give you the final big splash of expansions to place.
- Prosperity Towers' value has massively jumped ever since Inno has begun introducing those annoying as gak "gain stupid amounts of supplies" tasks to their events.
- Crystal Lighthouse/Bellspire are now "later game only" wonders thanks to the massive beating they took from the nerf bat.
- Watchtower if you power level it, (ie: focus ALL your kp efforts into it to the exclusion of all else for a couple of weeks), is probably amazing in the Fairies/Snores&Groans chapters, where it's hardest atm to keep top culture bonuses.

- ToS/Endless Ex are beyond useless for how *I* play. (ie: very, very slow progression!;) )
- Blooming Trader is only if you routinely use the market and/or just want to make Guest Race chapters go as quickly as possible.

- Only build any of the 'fighting' AW's if you fight regularly. (whether it's just tournament and/or provinces)
Of those, Sanc/Monestary is probably the 'best' since it's bonus applies to 100% of your various units, and the added culture is never a bad thing either!
Bulwark is easily the weakest IMHO, since the only Light Inf units atm worth considering are Dogs and occasionally Drone Riders for the odd Light Ranged-heavy weeks.
Light Inf overall sucks because they die like chumps so damn fast! But Doggies destroy mages (who feature heavily in a couple of tournaments), while Drones demolish light ranged, and both are beyond stupid fast in how much ground they cover!! (T1 alpha-strikes FTW!)


I'm impatiently waiting though for Inno to finally give us the 'barracks heavy inf' unit/3hrs.
*THAT wonder will be almost impossible to ruin, since Pallies & Treants especially can crush so many of the different tournaments.
 
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