Change in research section

[DeletedUser3726]

I come in to the research page this morning, and am unable to use my knowledge points gained during the night to the location I have been working on in stage 3. Instead, I am locked out of going forward because Tournament is now required. This is absolutely a terrible idea. I am not into doing battle, and feel that this should be optional. Please change this back. If you want to encourage peope to opt in for tournament, then do it by putting up a quest with knowledge points for a bonus. If I wanted to do fighting, I would play world of warcraft. In fact, a number of people in my fellowship have previously played wow and came here to get away from the battle mentality, Please let this game keep options for a more gentle philosophy.

 

[DeletedUser3575]

@KRen1 Yeah, you're singing the song of my people right now. They did it with Wonders recently too, forcing many of us back for MULTIPLE researches we have no use for... And no sign of changing it back. Please keep voicing your experiences and how the updates affect you, we need every voice we can get!

For the record, you CAN negotiate in the Tournaments, you don't have to fight. In fact I think I have only fought maybe two battles in Tournaments so far, and I've been playing them since they started. There's a "Cater" option which is essentially the same as negotiation in the regular provinces.

 

[DeletedUser3726]

@K, Ren1 Yeah, you're singing the song of my people right now. They did it with Wonders recently too, forcing many of us back for MULTIPLE researches we have no use for... And no sign of changing it back. Please keep voicing your experiences and how the updates affect you, we need every voice we can get!

For the record, you CAN negotiate in the Tournaments, you don't have to fight. In fact I think I have only fought maybe two battles in Tournaments so far, and I've been playing them since they started. There's a "Cater" option which is essentially the same as negotiation in the regular provinces.

I don't even want to waste 40 KP unlocking Tournament. Better spent elsewhere, like finishing the silk manufactory advance that I had already started and am now locked out of.
Additionally, do Tournaments eat into the resources of Tournament losers?????

 

[DeletedUser1987]

Yes.

 

[DeletedUser759]

absolutely correct. what is the point of going back when you're not going to play tournaments? plus, why didn't we have to do this when we had to go back to research all the worthless wonders? I want my KP's back. 8^(

 

[DeletedUser1987]

Inno claims that with the upcoming player move, the tournaments will be worth going back to because there will actually be active neighborhoods of people.

 

[DeletedUser3726]

Inno claims that with the upcoming player move, the tournaments will be worth going back to because there will actually be active neighborhoods of people.

If they are military oriented lands, then I still wouldn't be interested.

 

[DeletedUser3575]

@KRen1 Do you mean you wouldn't participate if the other neighbors were fighting instead of negotiating? There's no way to know what they're doing in their encounters, you can only see that they've been active in that province.

I do believe there IS benefit in participating in Tournaments, even if you're not in a very active neighborhood (I'm the only one ever playing in my low level provinces) because the first couple rounds of the early provinces are VERY cheap (double digit amounts of Tier 1 goods), but the rewards are usually 6 KP and 6 Relics (or 4 and 4) for minimal resources. I don't play much beyond the first province's third or fourth round because the cost gets a little too high for the reward (by those rounds you'd be receiving one random rune, which at this point is not incredibly helpful), but the first few rounds give me a LOT of KP and extra Relics, which I have found very useful as I worked through Chapter 5 and started getting into Dwarves.

Of course, all benefit depends on your idea of what is adequate reward for the required expenditures, so this is only my opinion on why Tournaments have been mildly useful. Your game play might find a different use for those resources, but honestly, I haven't seen any better way to get a bunch of your boosted good's Relics quickly than competing in the first couple Tournament rounds!

 

[DeletedUser3097]

I so agree with KRen1. I have absolutely no intentions of participating in Tournaments, unless I am "FORCED" to, which seems to be the reasoning behind now requiring Tournaments. I play in all the worlds, and as the Tournaments were not required at the time that I was at that point in research, I do not understand why I am now penalized for my preferences, and all forward motion was halted until I have enough KP's and mats to complete the research. And this was done with no warning at all, no chance to discuss it. You have totally stalled my progression, made me really "not happy with this game now", forced me to back track, all because "someone" decided to now require Tournaments in order to proceed. This is unfair in the extreme to those of us who have "opted out" of the Tournaments in a previous time when that option was allowed. Those of us who were able to "opt out" should be grandfathered in to that option, and I realize that it's a pain to do that for us, your "loyal players", however at this moment in time, I really don't care anymore than the people that have created this issue cared about the players wishes and pleasure in the game and what a pain it is to be forced backwards and forced to participate in the Tournaments. You can justify this all you want...but when push comes to shove, apparently your "powers that be" really don't care about your players happiness. Please reverse this and refund all KP's and materials required for the Tournaments, at least for those of us who had originally "opted out". I'm sorry if I sound rude or angry, but this was one of the few games out there that did not force battles, and now that is no longer the case, and I'm not sure if I am going to continue to play this game at this point.

 

[DeletedUser3575]

@Druistar Exactly what everyone said a week or two ago when Wonders were made mandatory - including the outcry for more warning. They're doing a slightly better job announcing the updates on the *forums* but that doesn't help players who aren't active in the forums. For those of us who opted to skip the Wonders researches, it set us back hundreds of KP to catch up. It's awful and definitely alienated a lot of people. Please keep speaking up when changes impact you; hopefully the more people who stand up and say something, the better the chances are for improvement!

Again, though, the Tournaments DO NOT require fighting. You can negotiation just like any other province, and the rewards are actually helpful (to a point - definitely haven't found any benefit from going TOO far into each round). I don't fight at all in Tournaments and I still manage to farm quite a few KP and Relics every time, plus a couple runes. My post above talks a little more about it, if you're interested.

 

[DeletedUser61]

I do not understand why I am now penalized for my preferences, and all forward motion was halted until I have enough KP's and mats to complete the research.

Skipping some of the technologies allowed you to "progress" faster than someone else who was touching all of the bases. You're not being "penalized" for anything. You could have gone back and filled in that box at any time, but you preferred to wait.

 

[DeletedUser3726]

I am fairly new, so for me the ancient wonders were also required when I got to them. I don't know what the purpose of them is, but I suspect that they are the source for the magnificent structures built into the cliffs and mountains to the northeast of the playing field (off the grid) seen upon visiting some extremely advanced players. If I had been blocked from proceding after bypassing them, I might be equally disturbed, but this is a city-building game, not a warfare game, so if I had seen pictures of the previoiuly mentioned structures, I would accept, and obviously did accept. Doing battle and losing my little fighters actually pains me. It will be a very long time before I run out of lovely things to build without doing battle. I just want the choice to be mine

 

[DeletedUser2191]

Skipping some of the technologies allowed you to "progress" faster than someone else who was touching all of the bases. You're not being "penalized" for anything. You could have gone back and filled in that box at any time, but you preferred to wait.

He chose not to research tournaments as he had no interest in participating in them. Now he is being forced to research it or quit the game. This is what so many people are complaining about, having the ability to choose our path through the game being taken away and being forced into playing a way we didn't want to.

 

[DeletedUser3726]

I guess the main thing is that hopefully, I can still ignore and chose not to participate in tournaments, but I resent having to waste the KP and other resources to open a path I don't want to use. It would always be possible later in time that I would choose to come back to it, but the only time I haved saved is the time it takes me to obtain 40 KP, less than 2 days. Also, it opens the way to be coerced into more violent game. Just let me not be forced to go that way

 

[DeletedUser3638]

Everything that the devs have been working on for the past 4 months is too make the game completely linear and eliminate choice. there is only one way to play the game. build the city in the order directed and fight on hexes.

Used to feel quite different

 

[DeletedUser627]

#KRen1
Hi! Its good to hear from you.

If you can find the threads, you'll be able to see that we've made your points over and over to Inno - without any response. When Tournaments were introduced, we felt that the game was becoming too focused on fighting, and so the idea that "fighting is optional" was less true. The further we proceed in the game, the more important it is to fight.

Inno required the Magic Academy. The MA requires non-boosted Relics. These Relics are primarily obtained via the Tournament.

Inno introduced Wonders, and advocates for them. Wonders require Rune Shards. The largest source for Rune Shards is the Tournament.

Wonders also need KP for leveling, and the largest source for KP is tournaments.​

Yes, it's possible to cater a very few encounters rather than fighting - enough to win 6-10 Relics, and if you spend heavily on goods perhaps a Rune Shard or two. But Tournament play is heavily weighted to fighting -only fighters win reasonable rewards.

There are pros and cons to this. Many players don't like the Magic Academy, so if you have to build it and eventually can't use it often, you can think of it as a sort of tax - kind of like your barracks. If you like the Wonders because of the way they look, you can enjoy building them (although it may take longer to get the Rune Shards). But they won't become very powerful if you don't have access to lots of KP to level them up...so if you want them to produce significant benefits, pick 1-2 of the best and only build those.

 

[DeletedUser3610]

Yes, it's possible to cater a very few encounters rather than fighting - enough to win 6-10 Relics, and if you spend heavily on goods perhaps a Rune Shard or two. But Tournament play is heavily weighted to fighting -only fighters win reasonable rewards.

In my experience this is not true at all. I have catered every encounter in every tournament so far and I have done pretty well in them (including getting ranking points, i.e. being among the best 100 participants).*shrug* Sure, I have to alocate resources and goods for this purpose, but it is quite possible to not fight in tournaments and still win more than a few KPs, relics and runes.

 

[DeletedUser627]

In my experience this is not true at all. I have catered every encounter in every tournament so far and I have done pretty well in them (including getting ranking points, i.e. being among the best 100 participants).*shrug* Sure, I have to alocate resources and goods for this purpose, but it is quite possible to not fight in tournaments and still win more than a few KPs, relics and runes.

I'm at a loss - wondering if perhaps your world has a different catering algorithm? I tried catering on Wyn in my early Dwarven city - and even though I have a strong manufacturing city there, I needed most of my goods for Research and Upgrading. If I cater more than a few provinces, then everything else stalls.

I looked at your city, and maybe the catering is easier at your level. If that's so, just be prepared for the costs to increase steeply in the future.

 

[DeletedUser3610]

maybe the catering is easier at your level

You are probably right about that (I have no way to be sure as I have only that one city). Maybe the devs make catering cheaper for newer players because they don't have as powerful armies and as many resources as more advanced players?

 

[Mykan]

Yep catering is way easier at earlier stages. They mentioned somewhere it was based on provinces scouted (may have said completed but I can't find the source). So for those dwarves tech + their advantage is fighting but they have the technology to support it. At earlier stages catering is very cheap and the best option not just for the cost but seriously sword dancers level one up against a granite golem with a large squad size for the golems just doesn't end well.

As mentioned you do not need to fight in tournaments and you do get several different things for rewards, reasonably predictable what you obtain at which level and tournament distance.

Inno did mention that tournaments would become compulsory around or just before the wonders became compulsory. They also mentioned that new core technologies need to be introduced in this fashion as it gives them the ability to remove the tech easily if there is a mjor bug. Once they hook up dependent technologies it becomes a lot more complicated to remove the tech if needed. This way they bring it in and check it works well, we have time to research it then or at a later stage when it becomes core. Remember as well that new players will not know any different. This is a new game and continuing to grow and add major features not all of which will be for those at end game.