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Discussion Chapter 1-5 Adjustments

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
@helya Thank you..

From my observations on Beta and assuming none of these were changed:

New cities will now have to wait until chapter 2 before joining a fellowship, and wait until chapter 3 before any crafting can be done, and wait until chapter 4 before doing anything with the tournament or AWs, and now have to wait until chapter 5 before they can touch the Spire. And all of those also require a research to be completed, so they are not even automatically available as soon as you enter those chapters. Yes, overall the research in the first 5 chapters has been streamlined some and KP costs reduced, but even with trying to rush through all this in my Beta test city, it still took me over 4 weeks before I completed the Spire research in chapter 5 and it felt like a normal city again.
 

Dreamyn2

Buddy Fan Club member
My Beta test city is trying to get into ch 4. I’m at 38/45 provinces cleared toward finishing advanced scouts to start ch 4. I have 96 kps in the kp bar. My current event quest: Spend 3 knowledge points and accept 3 trade offers from the wholesaler. I’m tech locked and can’t even donate to wonders yet. It doesn’t bother me (I actually think it’s funny) but if I was a new player I’d be a bit frustrated. Hopefully a new player in this situation would be in a fellowship that would direct them to contact support so they could move forward in the event.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
Hrmph. I like recruiting new players because it used to take them as short as 3 weeks to reach Chap 3 to be able to start contributing to Spire. Also, if you get them early and get them building really lean, efficient cities as early as Chap 3, they're pretty much set for the game. Now we'd have to invest a lot more time to develop them before even finding out if they've got what it takes to run stairs to the top. I feel like unless you're actually doing the full Spire, it's difficult to gauge how much resources you need to pull it off. I anticipate having to teach a lot of new players how to undo a lot of bad habits of playing 4 chapters without a Spire too. With the nerfing of the MA chest, Spire climbing is more important now for free diamonds.
 

Tehya1

Well-Known Member
They can't retract the spire, tourney, aws, or fs if you already have those in a ch 1-5, right?
 

ajqtrz

Chef
It boils down to player retention. The enemies of that are frustration and boredom. If you make it too hard it's frustrating, or too slow (because things are hard), it's too boring. Finding the balance means, in my opinion, introducing a "learning curve" which guides the player to fully learn the core of the game before adding other things.

So, in the past you couldn't do the Spire until Chapter 3. A lot of players bragged about how you could top the Spire in Chapter 3. Great! But to do that you had to have a strategy, right? If so, then, how does that strategy effect later play? If you "convince" your way to the top you need goods. That means a fellowship to supply them OR a city built to produce them. Either way, you are focusing on the Spire and that, I think, will distort the game later on in some way.

Just like "over-scouting," when you focus your efforts in one direction the balance of the game, in the long run, might lead to more frustration (as all the provinces become "very-hard" in the case of over scouting), or boring as you have to unexpectedly slow down.

Here's my take on the effort. The difficulties of the first 3-4 chapters are too non-linear. You can do them in a few weeks, easily and while each does take a little longer, the jump in time needed to completion when you get to chapter 5 is just too much. This means you get a bit jaded and expect chapters 5 to take no time at all. When you hit that wall, it gets boring. And that's a recipe for "drop out." Thus, the solution is to make the learning curve smoother, more complete.

To do that you have to re-distribute the sense of progression by integrating meaningful goals into game progression and making players earn those goals on top of just giving them out when they reach a certain chapter. That increases the sense of accomplishment. Joining a fellowship, activating the Spire and other things, are a part of that strategy. I think they are a step in the right direction.

AJ
 
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Maeryn

Member
When does the quests acquiring 18 residences end? I’m human and fast approaching superior residences where I’ll removing some residences to upgrade the rest.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
When does the quests acquiring 18 residences end? I’m human and fast approaching superior residences where I’ll removing some residences to upgrade the rest.

You will need that many residences to have enough pop to build and upgrade everything you need. Every city I have ever had, from the one I started almost 6 years ago to the new one I started less than 2 months ago on Beta to test these changes, has had 20 residences until at least chapter 8. My Beta test city is at the end of chapter 5 and has 18 level 15 residences and I ran out of population and had to build 2 more residences AND teleport a couple of factories into inventory just to have enough population to keep upgrading everything else.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
@Maeryn I am trying to remember if I had one in chapter 5 and I don't think so? But while that city has finished the chapter 5 research, I am still getting quests for chapter 5 techs, so it could still happen.
 

Quixotique

Active Member
It boils down to player retention. The enemies of that are frustration and boredom. If you make it too hard it's frustrating, or too slow (because things are hard), it's too boring. Finding the balance means, in my opinion, introducing a "learning curve" which guides the player to fully learn the core of the game before adding other things.

So, in the past you couldn't do the Spire until Chapter 3. A lot of players bragged about how you could top the Spire in Chapter 3. Great! But to do that you had to have a strategy, right? If so, then, how does that strategy effect later play? If you "convince" your way to the top you need goods. That means a fellowship to supply them OR a city built to produce them. Either way, you are focusing on the Spire and that, I think, will distort the game later on in some way.

Just like "over-scouting," when you focus your efforts in one direction the balance of the game, in the long run, might lead to more frustration (as all the provinces become "very-hard" in the case of over scouting), or boring as you have to unexpectedly slow down.

Here's my take on the effort. The difficulties of the first 3-4 chapters are too non-linear. You can do them in a few weeks, easily and while each does take a little longer, the jump in time needed to completion when you get to chapter 5 is just too much. This means you get a bit jaded and expect chapters 5 to take no time at all. When you hit that wall, it gets boring. And that's a recipe for "drop out." Thus, the solution is to make the learning curve smoother, more complete.

To do that you have to re-distribute the sense of progression by integrating meaningful goals into game progression and making players earn those goals on top of just giving them out when they reach a certain chapter. That increases the sense of accomplishment. Joining a fellowship, activating the Spire and other things, are a part of that strategy. I think they are a step in the right direction.

AJ
I think you shud start a new city before making up ur mind. If these changes r supposed to retain players they screwed up badly. I've never been so bored building a city.
It seems like they're trying to force players to spend money on premium buildings & upgrades by removing every other source of improved buildings. What's the point of unlocking the MA if I can't craft or source frags? Can't frag event buildings or spells cos I can't make them or even earn them in a tourney. Basically, new cities will be more likely to resort to 1 star trading to get by cos its not like they're gonna get many relics any time soon.
 

Quixotique

Active Member
@helya Thank you..

From my observations on Beta and assuming none of these were changed:

New cities will now have to wait until chapter 2 before joining a fellowship, and wait until chapter 3 before any crafting can be done, and wait until chapter 4 before doing anything with the tournament or AWs, and now have to wait until chapter 5 before they can touch the Spire. And all of those also require a research to be completed, so they are not even automatically available as soon as you enter those chapters. Yes, overall the research in the first 5 chapters has been streamlined some and KP costs reduced, but even with trying to rush through all this in my Beta test city, it still took me over 4 weeks before I completed the Spire research in chapter 5 and it felt like a normal city again.
What is ur goods production boost like? Are u given relics as quest rewards? If you're in a fs do you get tourney rewards before you unlock tourney in ch 4?
 

Maeryn

Member
@Quixotique i do agree with you on the new chapters 1-5 being boring there’s really nothing to keep interest in the game with tournaments and spire coming much later. I have skipped the barracks upgrade after getting it to level 4 simply to control space and I cater all my provinces anyway so it’s not need at the moment.

Your relics are only come from provinces or from the MA if you want to waste resources before unlocking the spire. As always tournaments rewards are given only to those you participated in it.
 

Quixotique

Active Member
@Quixotique i do agree with you on the new chapters 1-5 being boring there’s really nothing to keep interest in the game with tournaments and spire coming much later. I have skipped the barracks upgrade after getting it to level 4 simply to control space and I cater all my provinces anyway so it’s not need at the moment.

Your relics are only come from provinces or from the MA if you want to waste resources before unlocking the spire. As always tournaments rewards are given only to those you participated in it.
W/out tournaments & spire new cities won't be able to complete event quests. I'm guessing the idea is to "encourage" new players to buy event currency instead of earning it.

Edit: I just built the MA and upgraded it to level 3 but I can't craft anything. I can only produce PoP & EE enchantments.
 
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Kadhrin

Active Member
W/out tournaments & spire new cities won't be able to complete event quests. I'm guessing the idea is to "encourage" new players to buy event currency instead of earning it.
In the last event, I noticed that quests that were previously "do X spire encounters" or "do X tourney encounters" are now "do X spire or map encounters" and "do X tourney or map encounters".
 

Quixotique

Active Member
In the last event, I noticed that quests that were previously "do X spire encounters" or "do X tourney encounters" are now "do X spire or map encounters" and "do X tourney or map encounters".
Yep but there were also many quests for relics. Under the new changes players below ch 4 can't get relics from tourneys and crafting doesn't unlock until mid ch 3 (not that little cities will have many relics to use in the MA)
 
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